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 Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 4th, 2017 at 06:44 AM |
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Wiring Diagram for 1972 Type 3 Gauges - Seeking Help
Have hit a hurdle with changing over to German VDO gauges from the Australian ones.
Aussie MPH Speedo has turn lights wired left and right and bulbs within the speedo working independently where as the German KM Speedo does not have
the turn lights as they are in the fuel gauge bulb holder.
Aussie VDO Speedo rear view -
Aussie VDO Fuel Gauge rear view -
So am trying to work out why when ignition turned on both turn bulbs come on and stay on - should only be one wire from indicator stalk so somewhere
another wire has been spliced in by the looks of it.
Anyone have an Australian wiring diagram they can share with me - I've got a German one which is great BUT doesn't have the 2nd indicator wired in
it.
Thanks for any help & comments
Bert
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 4th, 2017 at 01:38 PM |
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German VDO Bulb Holder -
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cruiser
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| posted on April 4th, 2017 at 02:08 PM |
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I have a 68 car and replaced my speedo with an early german kph one.
I did not notice any issues with these, both of my indicator lights within the dash/fuel gauge flash together and I think that is normal for early
cars.
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 4th, 2017 at 05:24 PM |
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1972 - Local Content rules came into effect and so VDO Gauges were made in Australia for VW to conform.
Why they chose to change the wiring and wire the Left and Right indicators into the speedo only they know.
Cruiser you had an easy speedo swap in - the Australian one I have currently also has a smaller (by 1.5mm dia) thread to secure the speedo cable = a
new speedo cable a no biggy but once again WHY 
Trying to find a light switch with terminal ID 57 for the parking lights is another challenge also 
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pv370
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 11:48 AM |
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i assume there are 2 wires which came from the speedo with the indicators in it.
check both of these with a test lamp to ground to see if they flash when the indicators are put on left and right.
then you will need to modify the bulb holder from the euro fuel gauge to seperate the 2 indicator bulbs as they are connected together. i recall
modding an early one so the indicators were seperate a long time ago.
i will see if i can find it..... i can also look through my stash for a light switch with a 57.
good luck
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wombatventures
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 12:39 PM |
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Here's the wiring diagram from the Haynes Manual Bert.
I'm trying to find others.
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wombatventures
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 12:50 PM |
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And from the Gregorys
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 01:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pv370
i assume there are 2 wires which came from the speedo with the indicators in it.
check both of these with a test lamp to ground to see if they flash when the indicators are put on left and right.
then you will need to modify the bulb holder from the euro fuel gauge to seperate the 2 indicator bulbs as they are connected together. i recall
modding an early one so the indicators were seperate a long time ago.
i will see if i can find it..... i can also look through my stash for a light switch with a 57.
good luck
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Yes there are 2 wires from the speedo for L & R Indicators.
We broke the circuit between the L & R "bulbs"on the Euro bulb holder - think result was neither worked then.
My thoughts are to go back to the indicator stalk and see where the 2nd wire has been spliced into the circuit and remove it - both lights flashing @
once on the fuel gauge when turning does not bother me - very confusing for the 79yo Polish friend helper 
Then check as best we can all wires from the bulb holder go to where they should and not being tested on wires that work for current gauges.
7 Pin Light Switch with Terminal 57 for Parking Lights hard to find - I've still to remove it and check the wiring but as the illmuniator bulbs are
dull I expect the the dimmer module is kapoot - oh well if new needed then so be it.
Thanks for the reply - greatly appreciated.
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pv370
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 03:53 PM |
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you shouldnt need to remove the second wire....
its just a matter of modifying the bulb holder to work with 2 wires instead of 1....
if you have a test lamp check that the 2 wires you have make the lamp flash ie 1 lamp for left and the other for right..
i will try to find the modded one i have and send a pic or better still send you the bulb holder.
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pv370
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 03:59 PM |
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hold everything............
just looked at the pics a bit closer and it looks like there are actually 2 wires per bulb on the aussie speedo and the bulb holder is insulated from
the body of the speedo....
is that how it is ???????????
if so that makes it a lot more interesting ( and probably harder to wire)
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pv370
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 04:38 PM |
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cancel that last post i was looking at the fuel gauge pic
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 05:18 PM |
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The Aussie Fuel Gauge (2nd) picture in 1st post - the lower 2 with dual inputs are OIl & Gen - plastic bulb holder - one connector on each goes to
oil switch on engine and the generator- the 2nd wire is connected for power to fuse #12 and they are connected together.
Each gauge has seperate power 7 earth but the earth is linked on all 3 ...... don't think that's the problem - we have the clock in and working, gen
and oil lights working and I think the parking and high beam worked also ..... it's just the blinking blinkers.
If you can post a picture that may shed some more light on it 
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 07:06 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by wombatventures
And from the Gregorys
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Doh!!!! Forgot to check my copy - yup still confused with it but not as much 
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pv370
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| posted on April 5th, 2017 at 07:16 PM |
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Hey Bert
found the bulb holder i modded 20+ years ago...
all i did was remove the wire between the 2 bulbs and run a new wire out through the hole and connect it to the fuse box.
but in your case you have 2 wires already coming to the bulb holder.
connect one to the tab at the back behind one bulb and the other to the new wire.
also found some headlight switches with tag 57 on them
they are round with a black end on them.
not square metal like the early ones i think..
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 6th, 2017 at 06:38 AM |
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Thanks for the picture - we did sweat off the blue connector wire on the LHS & tested but now can't recall result - also soldered a new male
spade connector to the back of the bulb holder and connected wire from indicator stalk to it - don't think it worked this way either
Possibly what we did by not removing that blue wire fully was confuse the wiring as it was a broken circuit - auto electrics is weird and designers a
lot to answer to
Will show helper you solution - you've been a great help.
Mick @ Mick Motors said I may have the black round shaped light switch ...... whatever is there works fine it's just the gauge bulb illuminator
dimmer that doesn't work - it has llittle resistance when you turn it to alter the brightness of the gauges. I'll have to get the hand up there and
have a feel about.
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Fossil
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| posted on April 11th, 2017 at 06:56 AM |
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Worked on it yesterday - wiring sorted .... took some time and more involved but got everything working finally ...... why did they have to change the
wiring in Australia  
Headlight Switch looks ok .... block type but with 9 terminals - extra ones are 58R & 58L - 30 only 1 connector used as wire to clock (power) and
to fusebox is connected/spliced together so only one terminal used but it works
Dimmer on headlight switch looks knackered ...... the 113 941 531 E from Mick Motors doesn't have terminals 57, 58R & 58L so back it goes ....
original part 113 941 531 A is NLA but see JKA "E" version has 8 terminals & expect 57 missing but expect this can be worked around 
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pv370
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| posted on April 11th, 2017 at 01:04 PM |
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glad to be of some assistance..........just hope i didnt confuse you too much.
i have always liked to look of the euro gauges better than the 73 aussie ones
they look like they were thrown together at the last minute to get past the local content rules.
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 11th, 2017 at 05:47 PM |
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No confusion at all ....... confirmed our thoughts ..... what ended up happening was isolating the power in the bulb holder for the indicators by
re-routing the thin un covered wire away from the indicator bulbs and runnng 2 seperate fly leads out through the same hole as the power lead hole =
simples.
Never took photos but will as we have to replace the headlight switch and try to secure the bulb older to the gauge back as it popped off when we put
it back in for reasons unknown.
Got an 8 pin switch today @ Mick Motors - why he didn't look for it last week has me beat as it's what I asked for - part numbers the same ??????
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wombatventures
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| posted on April 12th, 2017 at 09:33 PM |
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Good to hear you got success Bert.
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 13th, 2017 at 06:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by wombatventures
Good to hear you got success Bert.
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As they say Terry 2 out of 3 ain't bad 3 out of 3 will mean
success as fuel gauge has 10 connections on it and the wiring is a nightmare possibly the smallest gauge but will persevere with it - so close yet so far 
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Fossil
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| posted on April 17th, 2017 at 02:30 PM |
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Finally installed the German VDO Instruments/Gauges after some wiring issues with the Australian Made TYpe3 having these wired differently.
All 3 work great and worth the expense and effort to change them over.
KM SPeedo with Trip Meter, Clock & Fuel Gauge which now has the indicators working seperately to each other for R & L Turns
Picture of the Australian VDO Gauges -
Picture of the German VDO Gauges -
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pv370
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| posted on April 17th, 2017 at 06:33 PM |
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Hey Bert,
They are a much better looking gauge set..........
NICE
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Fossil
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| posted on April 17th, 2017 at 07:07 PM |
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Thanks Peter ...... forgot to take a picture of the bulb holder to show you what we did but as helper took control I forgot trying to keep an eye on
him.
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Lo-tech
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| posted on April 25th, 2017 at 07:57 PM |
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Like anything, I guess it's down to personal preference. Myself, I went the other way and changed up the old-style instruments in my '71 to the
'72-on Australian style for the following reasons:
1 - Busted odo on the original speedo and I was sick of guessing my mileage and unwilling to chase down tiny spare numeral wheels that would have been
90 per cent as brittle as the stuff I was replacing;
2 - I think the black look works better with the vent-hole dashboard and I also prefer the four-spoke arrangement of the later steering wheel;
3 - The oil and generator warning lights are huge and much harder to miss if one goes on in an emergency;
4 - The indicator warning, high beam and driving-lights-on indicator lights are right in front of your face, not behind your right hand. Also, the
driving-lights indicator is a nice, bright amber which you can see in daylight = no more coming back to a parked car hours later with a flat
battery.
I agree about the standard of construction, though - got to wonder what they were smoking at VDO when they were stencilling the clock faces. I had to
correct for a marker pattern that was nearly five degrees out when fixing the clock...
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 26th, 2017 at 06:34 AM |
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Yup it all comes down to personal preference 
By the way the amber warning light you mention for the driving/head lights is in fact the parking light warning light and should go off when the
headlight switch is moved to the 2nd position to turn the headlights on - this is because on the original switch there was terminal id #57 which it
connected to but these days you can't find a switch with that terminal ID  - this was an Australian gauge & wiring design.
With the new headlight switch I had to "piggy back" the parking lights onto terminal id #58 and so now the "Parking Light" warning light stays on
when the parking lights come on on 1st step and the headlights on the 2nd step are on which I chose to live with as little night driving is done and I
don't drive with the lights on during the day unless absolutely necessary 
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Lo-tech
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| posted on April 27th, 2017 at 11:00 PM |
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Yeah - I was using the Euro "driving lights" terminology to distinguish them from the Type 3 "parking lights" on the sides of the car which are
switched by the indicator stalk, but we're talking about the same thing. The amber light goes off on the second click when the headlights go on. Your
piggybacked set-up sounds like it'd be absolutely fine - it's not as if the light's that bright.
Weirdly, the other thing I had to do when changing up the instruments was to saw a cutaway into a spot-welded bracket behind the dash to allow for the
difference between the angled feed-in for the drive cable on the old speedo and the straight-in mounting for the Australian-made one. Otherwise, no
matter what I did, the drive casing was always about 50mm too short to screw in. There's always something.....
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Fossil
A.k.a.: Bert Wright
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| posted on April 28th, 2017 at 06:17 AM |
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I didn't have to cut any metal BUT the Australian VDO Speedo had a smaller threaded "securing nut" so had to get a new speedo cable = no big deal
as allowed me to also put the missing grommet into to fire wall the cable feeds through .... THEN the cable had to routed differently as instead of
straight out the back on the Aussie one it's @ (say) 45 degrees on the German one - just had to get it as smoothly flowing as possible - 
Yup always something but once I get the new plastic lower sill trim clips to replace the aftermarket ones (or what's left of them) that'll be it
......
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