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 The_Bronze.
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| posted on October 10th, 2002 at 07:27 PM |
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~Push Button Ignition & Anti-Theft~
Q1. How heavy does the ignition (power on/off) switch and push button need to be?
Q2. In the forums opinion, what is the best form of (hidden, code, connection, etc) ignition cut out which can act as an anti theft measure.
I recognise that by allowing a push button ignition the Dog-O-War will be made easier to steal so want to install somthing (Cheap) that will cause the
would be thief to give up all together.
The best I have seen so far is a hidden switch that earths out the -ve on the coil causing the motor not to start.
The Bronze.
Finding where the keys are in the morning pisses me off!
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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matara
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| posted on October 10th, 2002 at 08:19 PM |
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Dashboard Dummy
I like to put a real VW switch (lights/washer/hazard) thats wired up to an ignition wire under the dash, and prevents the car from starting in
addition to the usual one on the coil under the back seat. Usually a thief would look for the one under the seat etc, but as the dummy on the dash
looks like it should be there they never would suspect its a cut out!
Doh! Now I've told you all how to nick my car and I'm going to have to invest in a pit bull!
Steve
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70AutoStik
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| posted on October 13th, 2002 at 01:10 AM |
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I'm not sure what they're like over there; but with the law that every car less than 30 years old must be fitted with an immobiliser in WA
they're bloody cheap here. So I had one fitted anyway - I think the record still stands that no car fitted with an approved immobiliser has been
stolen in WA. These are the remote control jobbies you see on modern cars, and if you visit Jaycar, you can buy a couple of solenoids to add remote
locking to the thing (highly impressive on a rusty VW!) As for pulling the -ve to chassis: try tying it to +ve instead, it will prevent damage if
someone does try to steal it and is more likely to confuse a potential thief (may blow a fuse, though.)
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on October 13th, 2002 at 12:22 PM |
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I have one of the Jaycar central-locking kits 70Autostik mentioned, connected to a Jaycar keyring-remote alarm kit.
I know its not as cheap as a cutout switch, but it does bring an old car into the 21st century somewhat and is nearly undetectable to the casual
observer. I could have installed it completely hidden but chose not to for reasons of practicality.
At around $250 for central locking and alarm (when I bought them 2 yrs ago), I think these kits are exceptionally good value for money, and I will be
fitting electric windows next (also operated by keyring remote).
I'm planning to write a tech article on the installation, but it's going to be a long time until I finish (Projects take a long time at my
place).
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Kruizin Kol
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on October 14th, 2002 at 05:46 PM |
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Bronze, in answer to your original question, a switch rated at 20A should be ample.
Kruizin Kol
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jeffh
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| posted on October 14th, 2002 at 09:21 PM |
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I would use a relay for the starter solenoid even with a push button starter.
On my previous kombi, starting was hit and miss, the po said starter solenoid on the way out. I turned out that the aftermarket starter pushbutton had
burned out. A new pushbutton, relay for the solenoid and never a problem
Jeff
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Dunebuggy
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| posted on October 20th, 2002 at 03:54 PM |
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kill switch
hiya bronze.
I heard of a simple but very effective way to fit an antitheft device.
Just about every car has an aftermarket addon of some kind, so toggle switches(especially on an older car) don't look that much out of place.
If you wire your main ignition wire through a series of say three 3 position toggles switches ( or 4 if you like) the theif would first have to know
that the one of the switches had something to do with starting, let alone 3. it works like a code.......how many switch position combinations can you
get with three x 3 position switches( or even 4).
Each switch must be in the correct position b4 the car will get power to ignition. Bearing in mind that ANY switch operated method can be bypassed, as
I said b4, the theif would 1st need to know what and where etc. However, as someone in a previous post said.......a switch that looks like it's
meant to be there for hazard light etc.......could be a good trick too. Give me a call bronze and I will explain in more detail if you are interested.
You know the number.
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The_Bronze.
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| posted on October 20th, 2002 at 06:01 PM |
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I follow what your on about. At present I have the ignition turning on through a three way switch and am using a horn button for starting.
As an anti theft device I park the Dog in the back of the carpark behind the Ford, turn the wheels full lock and put the steering lock on.
Call around sometime Speedbuggy and take me for a spin.
Thanks for the suggestions and advice volksfolks. I was just moving the ignition last weekend and accidently dropped it behing the front wheel well,
never to be reached until I roll it. So the conversion was a necessity.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on October 20th, 2002 at 08:24 PM |
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LOL 
Kruizin Kol
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KOM123
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| posted on October 20th, 2002 at 11:50 PM |
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Can I ask are there advantages to using push buttoin ignition over a key?
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on October 21st, 2002 at 07:49 AM |
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Its cheaper
Kruizin Kol
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56astro
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| posted on October 22nd, 2002 at 08:10 PM |
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I've been giving the "kill switch" idea a bit of thought lately as the rebuild on the Oval nears, and thought that maybe to start the
car you would need to turn the key and depress a switch at the same time. Such as turn the key and depress a floor mounted switch (like a dipper
switch).
Spoke with my auto electrician today and he told me of a system he had seen where once the key had been turned, 2 screws on the dash had to be short
circuited (L and R hand) for the car to start. Don't know how that would work with a metal dash though.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
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Grey 57
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| posted on October 23rd, 2002 at 11:30 AM |
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I always used to put kill switches in my cars in the old days. Problem was I sometimes forgot it was set to kill when I jumped in it the next day.
Funny how realisation that the kill switch was on and battery running flat always happened at the exact same moment. 
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Bugdriver
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| posted on October 23rd, 2002 at 09:57 PM |
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One clever idea was in an electronics magazine many years ago, and involved a timer circuit. The timer interval could be preset to (say) 10
seconds.
When a hood attempts to purloin the vehicle, hot wires it and it starts up no problems. Probably just as he is changing to third the motor dies as the
10 seconds times out.
After another preset time, and thief has re-checked his wiring bypass the motor will again start, but again for the 10 seconds only - maybe he almost
made top this time and the motor dies again.
I could imagine after the third time this occured you could see the crim. trudging down the road 'heap of crap', mutter mutter, 'bloody
bomb', mutter mutter mutter.........
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70AutoStik
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 01:08 AM |
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Yes, I remember the article; it still comes down to how you disable the engine - if you simply cut power to the coil, most crooks will
"hotwire" anyway (that's the original meaning of hotwire: a "hot" wire is taken to the ignition and jumped to the starter.)
Shorting the "points" connection of the coil either high or low is better, but could damage an electronic ignition (such as the
"pointless" kits.)
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Grey 57
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| posted on October 24th, 2002 at 12:33 PM |
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Unless you have a locking deck lid its almost impossible to prevent hot wiring on a beetle. Two alligator clips and a piece of wire, quick push start
and its gone. Club lock and big dog is probably the best protection.
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 kombi_kid
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| posted on November 3rd, 2002 at 05:31 PM |
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every VW has an immboliser may not be modern but to the thief they would never find it!!!! pull out ur rotor button!
cheers
rhys |
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speedster356
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| posted on November 3rd, 2002 at 08:40 PM |
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Anti-theft device
Try one of these stickers that I got from the States....
[Edited on 3-11-2002 by speedster356]
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Spyder-WISD 07-09-05 11.6s @ 125 MPH
Speedster-WISD Nats 05 14.4s @ 89 MPH
Jet cruiser-Coogee 22-09-05 900 deg C @ 110,000 rpm
Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals....................Except the Weasel.
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Che Castro
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| posted on November 3rd, 2002 at 11:36 PM |
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yeah the rotor one is good, or if u could really be bothered install a quick release for the steering wheel and take it with you 
Jon
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56astro
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| posted on November 4th, 2002 at 06:48 AM |
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What about wiring something through the reversing switch on the gear box so that it can only be started in reverse?
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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Che Castro
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ankle straps
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| posted on November 4th, 2002 at 08:47 AM |
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that would work, although only for later beetles, i dont have reverse lights
Jon
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Grey 57
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| posted on November 4th, 2002 at 01:37 PM |
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Early accessories for beetles were gear stick locks with a key, you locked the car into reverse gear, and a hand brake lock with a combination lock
arrangement. I had one of these hand brake locks once.
The gear stick lock was a good one. Really rare now. Easy to spot the VW car thieves too, they're the ones reversing at high speed down the
street. :puke:puke
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Che Castro
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| posted on November 5th, 2002 at 11:11 AM |
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i guess a locking steering wheel column would slow a crim down as well, like those accesory ignition ones for early beetles. Although i reckon a
decklid lock would be great, just unplug the dizzy/coil and lock up
Jon
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The_Bronze.
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| posted on November 7th, 2002 at 12:12 PM |
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Seems this string has been going well with out me.
I found a decent 20amp push button for the starter and have the ignition running through a three way switch at present. When the ignotion in on the
oil pressure light is in series with a Dick Smith 60db 12v buzzer which screams it tits off when ever the rattler isn't spinning of on those
extreme slopes that your not game enough to get out for a photo. As a result I haven't had a flat battery yet.
Haven't quite figured the imobiliser bit out yet but plenty of good suggestions as you can see. I like the combination switches one and the
reverse gear suggestion although mine is pre reverse lights. The button on the floor suggestion was a good one too as was the dud switch. I saw a
wrecking type three dash the other day and was going to ask if scab a switch off it for such a ploy.
Advantages of push button:
Not to sure if there are any. Ive had the push button for nearly a month now and the horn button is handleing it well but am going to replace it cause
I miss my horn. You see more *#!@heads when you don't have one I've found.
Start up is much quicker but you can much more easily lock you keys in the car if your in a hurry when your getting out.
The kids like the push button as when their in the front they can share the starting with me, we count down '3,2,1, blast off' when we go
for a drive together. When working on the car I dicsonncect the battery straight away so they (haven't) don't accidently start the car or
even roll it on the starter as I usually park it in gear.
I doubt I'll ever have a full on race car so it nice to have a 'normal' car that has some race features I guess. Boyhood fantasy to
some degree.
Security wise is the biggest disadvantage because even though a key can be bypassed, it at least eliminates the honest theives.
I think I will install a big plastic key kill switch on the main power line in the rear seat heal board, behind the drivers seat. This way their is no
hotwire available and all power is cut to everything. Then I will just have to run one wire to the radio for an interior light. The radio to let it
hold it's memory and the interior light to see where to put the key when its dark!
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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56astro
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| posted on November 7th, 2002 at 06:54 PM |
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I spoke with my auto sparkie, (yeah, I know, ..... AGAIN) the other day and I ran a few suggestions past him.
He said to be really effective you need to cut power to the coil / points (I think he referred to it as grounding them?).
Anyways, he said there were better methods than the reverse switch idea I had, such as a on/off key switch in the A pillar, or using a cigarette
lighter as a switch (push in to go). I suggested that the cigarette lighter could be used like a 2nd key. Take the centre part with you and via relays
the circuit to the points is grounded.
We are yet to come up with the final decision yet but at this stage the switch in the A pillar seems the go. It can go virtually unseen, and the back
of the switch (bonnet side) can be made tamper proof by pop riveting a shield over it.
More food for thought!!
:P
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
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| posted on November 11th, 2002 at 10:59 PM |
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I really like the cigarette lighter idea. That could work well. A hidden or seperate ignition switch with the lighter acting as the push button. Is
that what you mean?
No one, (except those here) expect it and it wouldn't look out of place. Shit you'd even have to let your mechanic into the know other wise
he'd bill you an hour for figuring out how to start it.
The Bronze.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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56astro
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| posted on November 12th, 2002 at 12:44 PM |
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Nah Bronze, normal ignition switch, but no power to the engine bay unless lighter (or other switch) is "on".
You're right about the mechanic. Be funny to be a fly on the wall while he's scratchin his head.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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