| [ Total Views: 868 | Total Replies: 17 | Thread Id: 17041 ] |
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 Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on December 27th, 2003 at 10:45 AM |
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Ideal engine temp?
Can anyone inform me as to the ideal oil temp a 1600 twin port motor should be running at when fully warmed up? Also safe acepted temperatures when
running at speed on long trips? Thanks :jesus |
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azz
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| posted on December 27th, 2003 at 11:23 AM |
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Such a BIG answer for such a little question..
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 Bizarre
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| posted on December 27th, 2003 at 05:13 PM |
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Seriously a hard question to answer
These are my opinions......
A 1600 twin port with deck closed and full tin should not get above 100 round the city. A sustained run at 120 km / hr i would consider nornal to get
to say 115.
I would pull over at 120-125 and shut down before 130
A standoff on the deck lid will reduce 10 C.
Hotter ambient will increase temp. I would not go for an extended blast on a 40C day
Your name suggests you may have a manx??
I would chop 10C off my numbers there. I would think an open motor that sees more than 110C either has problems or was designed for an open engine
area.
It also depends where the sensor is located.
I run mine in the rear pressure relief valve. Supposedly one of the hotter spots. It is on its way to the cooler.
One in the block/sump would read less.
It is relative rather than definitive.
That said i think you need to get oil above 90C to get rid of condensation
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on December 27th, 2003 at 08:33 PM |
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mmmm, how hot does it get in Mexico and Brazil ? and I'm sure they flog them over there !!!
That said, go by blue74l's numbers:thumb
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BiX
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| posted on December 27th, 2003 at 11:12 PM |
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mine doesn't get above 70 even in the 38 degree days over xmas. It runs a 9:1 compression, and an extra cooler. it never used to to go over 65
with the extended alloy sump. But saying all this, i feel my engine runs to cold am now going to cover the extra oil cooler.
The sender is tapped into the back right side of the case about 1.5 inches up and 2 inches from the side. |
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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 posted on December 28th, 2003 at 12:39 AM |
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pheeewww,
thanks guys- i was just getting worried on chrismas day when driving the manx at about 110 kph for 40 minutes the temp started to
aproach 90 deg. - I have a remote oil cooler and the temp usually doesnt go beyond 80 deg.... but it was a 30+ day  |
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tassupervee
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| posted on December 28th, 2003 at 11:45 AM |
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Blue74 has it on the mark as well as Bix.
It is equally incorrect to run the oil too cool as too hot, a fact often overlooked and not considered.
Oil specifications are "usually" defined at around 100 Deg.C so strictly speaking, you arent even heating the oil to its ideal temp.
Condensation and associated destructive acid formation will eventually evaporate away regardless of the temp of the oil just significantly slower at
lower temps. this can mean a buildup where the car only ever runs short runs and never heats its oil.
What is a wise strategy is to use the biggest oil cooler you can possibly fit and employ an inline oil temp thermostat that simply bypasses the cooler
at temps below the thermostat preset.
Exactly the same as a water-cooled engine thermostat in a nifty aluminium housing that just inserts into the oil cooler supply/return lines.
Often used on Air-cooled big bore road bikes in colder climates.
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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70AutoStik
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| posted on January 6th, 2004 at 01:24 AM |
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Sounds like you're running a full-flow cooler, with no thermostat/flaps, or a cheap and inaccurate guage. The combustion of petrol (especially
ULP,) produces gasses which combine with water to produce sulphuric acid. If the oil temp does not regularly get over at least 75C, this acid will
eat the bearings ( a phenomenon pretty much every mechanic has witnessed - even if they didn't know what the cause was.) Regular engine oils
(such as the non-synthetics we tend to use in VWs) will break down ahead of time if heated over 115-120C on a regular basis.
So, recommended oil temp is 80-110C when hot - provided you have a reliable gauge.
P.S. Some people might jump on my comment against overly low oil temps (simplified as it was,) as modern oils do contain chemicals to combat acidity
- they do not, however, have enough to counteract consitently low engine temperatures.
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youngone
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 posted on January 8th, 2004 at 02:25 PM |
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similar but different
I've got a worked 1600, a mechanic told me that i shouldn't let it get over 100c, simply because of the wires etc will start melting due to
the heat...
My manx doesn't like going over 90k for long trips before it starts heating up. This may be a silly question, but on the last long drive i lost
oil pressure when the heat when up. wots going on????
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tonyg
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 09:34 PM |
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It is obviously running too hot. I trust your mecanic who gave you this advice is very experienced with air cooled veedubs. In any case, check your
case for airleaks, make sure ALL the air is going where it is supposed to. The most common air leak ios around the plug wires, the large tight fitting
washers that seal the s/plug hole are oftem missing, or old and not hard up against the tin ware. I have even seen so called mecahanics leave the
heater hose connectors off the fan housing and just leave the holes open.. Make sure all the tin ware is in place, especially the little pieces under
the barrels. Then go fit an oil cooler, and run quality oil, in summer in Bris I would run straight 50. Running hot is injurious to your engine
health, and consequently your wallet
good luck,
tonyg
they took me away haha, hope the medication works
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 8th, 2004 at 10:01 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by youngone
I've got a worked 1600, a mechanic told me that i shouldn't let it get over 100c, simply because of the wires etc will start melting due to
the heat...
My manx doesn't like going over 90k for long trips before it starts heating up. This may be a silly question, but on the last long drive i lost
oil pressure when the heat when up. wots going on????
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Wires melting ????? Is your mechanic in lala land. Just because your oils 100deg c doesn't mean everything else in the engine bay is.
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tassupervee
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| posted on January 9th, 2004 at 10:27 AM |
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Im afraid that Craig beat me to that one 
L8tr
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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breville
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| posted on January 10th, 2004 at 04:15 PM |
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Great trip from Bris to Maitland
Worried about the long trip i fitted a oil temp guage
Around town 70 - 80 degrees
on the trip averaging 100 - 110 oil temp was between 95 and 105 depending on the outside temp more than on the speed.
i have a 1600 TP with DCNF 40 petronix ignition empi monza pipes. no extra sump or cooler.
And latest news - my MDS 5 arrived !!! keen to try it out.
regards
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 10th, 2004 at 10:01 PM |
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Maybe some people should take note on what temps a 1600 runs at. :thumb
breville, thanks for posting, this was the same temps as my 1600tp.
Also the same temps as my base 1916cc would run.
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on January 12th, 2004 at 09:44 PM |
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heeeeeeaaaaatttt
my 1600 ran hotter than my base 1916cc.
"you... at the back... can you tell me what vaporlock is? and stop picking your nose, you have no idea where that finger's been.":alien
let sleeping dubs lie
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70AutoStik
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| posted on January 14th, 2004 at 08:50 PM |
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If you're running a full-flow oil cooler, your oil temp does not reliably reflect how hot your engine is running... Though some _never_ reach a
healthy temperature (your oil-cooling system becomes unregulated.)
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dubcab
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| posted on January 20th, 2004 at 09:53 PM |
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I haven't checked temp on new 1835 yet as it is just running in, it is fitted with an extra cooler mounted on opposite side of battery(hole cut)
in kombi . Although I'm in sunny Queensland, out west here it gets as low as -5c in winter and I'm a bit worried that my bus will run too
cool. Does anyone know where I can find one of those in-line oil thermostats that sends the oil through the filter only until it reaches a certain
temp which then opens the line to cooler.?
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70AutoStik
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| posted on January 21st, 2004 at 12:16 AM |
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An excellent idea, but will cost about $130 with postage from aircooled.net. I think Gene Berg is about the same price, but may cost a little more as
they use DHL for everything. A lot of "experts" mention the bypass in the stock engine and it's ability to prevent blowouts in the
cooler, a lot seem to miss the point it also provides a bit of primitive temperature control. A metallurgist friend suggests the VW engineers
designed a little more than most realise into this area (but you need to take into consideration his father was a long-haired Kombi-driving science
teacher [actually Master's, back when that meant something]) which supports the experienced VW/Jaguar/Honda mechanic's view that you _can_
have a too efficient cooler for your engine...
Sorry to throw you a curve ball, but those of us who don't have an engineering degree need to remember:
Oil cooling will not cure an overheating engine, only overheated oil.
Oil is designed to reach an operating temperature.
Engines are designed to reach an operating temperature: this is not an air-cooled problem. Many home-built marine engines run much too cool, for
example - if you are making one, use a heat exchanger and retain the stock thermostat and coolant. High-performance engines often suffer with
improved cooling systems, but reduced combustion chamber cooling due to it's increased area without improved coolant flow.
There are ways to use your extra-cool oil practically, but they need a good understanding of fluid dynamics and a fair dose of experience. (squirters
used on the cylinders and valve train are common on HP, short-life engines.)
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Mad Manx
A.k.a.: Travin C.
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| posted on January 22nd, 2004 at 09:11 PM |
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I have an 8 pass cooler at the front of my manx along with heavy large gauge oil lines runnig front to back. My last oil change I filled the motor
till it was close to the top of the dipstick full mark than i ran the motor for about thirty seconds than check the oil level 15 minutes later to see
if more was needed to fill the lines and cooler- it was cause the oil level now was about 3/5ths so I topped it up till the oil level was spot on. i
than drove the car for around 30 minutes later that afternoon - the next morning I checked the oil level and it was showing well above the full mark.
SHOULD THIS BE A CONCERN?My oil pressure will sit at about 60psi all day (drops a bit at idle) and only takes around 20-30 second to reach 60psi at
start up. I have no oil leaks and my motor blows no smoke. :jesus |
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manxed69
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| posted on January 22nd, 2004 at 10:37 PM |
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On a cold winters morning I struggle to get the engine past 60 degrees. There is also the problem of the throttle body on the carbie freezing and
causing a rough idle.
On an ordinary day the engine sits at about 80 degrees and 90 for a warm day.
Stinking hot days are another story. If I'm going around town then the engine will hang around the 90 degree mark, however at 100 to 110km the
engine just seems to slowly get hotter and hotter. After 40 minutes of driving at high speed the engine is hanging around the 105 degrees mark and
this is as hot as I'm prepaired to let it get. My theory is that the coolent in a water cooled engine reaches just over 100 degrees (just past
boiling) so I've made 105 my top safe mark. Luckly I've never had to drive long enough on a hot day to exceed this, but if I did I would
pull over and let it cool down.
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