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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 11:43 AM
FREE Restoration Database
Hi All,
This is a request for some advice.
I am putting together a Windows Database Program that will keep track of my up-coming VW Restoration and general maintenance. When finished I intend
to post it here for free. Yep. I would like all my fellow VeeDubber's to have it free. Hopefully it will be easy to use, useful and maybe fun
too.
The intention is to record all the tasks involved, including any parts, part numbers, suppliers and prices, etc. Also I intend to have a timeline
showing what's been done, what's to be done and who's doing it. Another part will keep an ongoing display of monies spent so-far (scarey!)
I am a professional programmer, and I don't need any programming help - however I am not a mechanic and new to the restoration process. What I
need is some advice as to what input fields and sections are required. So far I have the following major sections:
General - Contains a program introduction and general help.
I would like to know what each section should contain, and to what depth I should go. I imagine that under the Engine subsection of the Drivetrain
section I should have every part listed, and the appropriate detail for it. ie: Part number, size, supplier, price etc.
As I have mentioned earlier, I am no mechanic so any advice on this, (and all other sections), WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
I will post some preliminary screenshots as soon as possible - just to give you the idea of what I'm doing.
Now please realise that the building of applications isn't something that is done overnight, so don't expect anything great within a day or
two. When I'm ready I'll be asking for some beta testers, and anyone that helps will get a mention in the applications "About"
box.
I'd really appreciate any advice, as I really want to do something that'll be of help to us all. Reply to this thread and
NOT by U2U or email, so everyone can see what's being suggested and comment. This will weed-out anything that may not be
neccessary or overkill.
I hope to hear from you soon.
Rossco.
Rossco
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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 11:57 AM
Screenshots (I hope)
Rossco
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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 12:05 PM
Yeah, I know...
Yeah, I know that the images next to each sub-section aren't representative of what the sub-section is!
Please remember that this is a 'work-in-progress', and nothing is finalised at all. In fact, it is still pre-beta which means that things
are only there to indicate what will go where.
As soon as I can come-up with the appropriate images, I will change them.
Just thought I'd get in first, before somebody els did.
Cheers,
Rossco
wacked1
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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 01:07 PM
What an excellent idea:thumb:thumb:thumb
Keep up the good work and I'll be keeping an eye on the progress.
wacked1
:jesus
Dasdubber
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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 01:42 PM
Excellent idea and good on you for sharing it with others. Having progressed about 3/4 the way through a full body off resto myself I'll try and
provide some assistance since I have already spent lots of time and money on the project.
Haven't had a chance to have a good look at it (or cross reference my spreadsheet re. cost/parts/services etc) yet but will try and give as much
feedback as possible.
The one area which I know you'll need to include in all the subsections is a category for services (general I know) - things you can't do
your self. Eg. in engine...(if applicable), case machining (line bore for eg.), crank grinding, balancing, assembly (if you are not doing it) etc.
Powdercoating/painting tinwear.
Also chrome plating exterior and interior items (bumpers etc). Powdercoating suspension components etc. Not sure if it is classed as drivetrain but a
section for floor pan is important. Any mods, paint, new seals (eg. front inspection cover, body to pan seal etc).
Heaps more I'll try and post here but better get back to work - check out http://www.wolfsburgwest.com in their online shop - that may assist with categorical breakdown in how to class parts (that
is where I based my spreadsheet from).
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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 02:48 PM
Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments.
I checked out Wolfburg Wests site, and yes it'll be a great help. Thanks for the 'heads up'.
As I'll probably end up saying ad-nauseum, any advice is good advice.
Oh yeah, I was hoping that the app could be used as a daily maintenance recording mechanisim as well as for restoration projects. So
don't be put off if you've already finished your resto. In fact you are just the people I'd like info from.
Have a great one,
Cheers,
Rossco
Doug Sweetman
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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 03:43 PM
Come on Rossco, you know no-one ever 'Finishes' a resto.....
Sounds awesome. I've always thought I should better document whats been done to the car, otherwise I forget it all !!
Good luck. Look forward to seeing it when you are done.
Doug
modulus
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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 06:24 PM
Hi Rossco,
This looks like a great idea.
Getting these data schemas right is always a pain and there will always be one more niggling misfit that eventually has to be slotted into
miscellaneous. At the moment I think (no offence intended) that your preliminary schema won't stand up for too long without some problems.
For example, where does Fuel Injection fit? Where do Fuel Tank, Pump, Lines, Filters fit?
For the Kombistas, where does camping fitout, including poptops, cupboards, bed/seats etc. fit?
It looks to me as though at least a third layer is necessary, e.g.
Driveline
- Engine
-- Induction
-- Exhaust
-- Ignition
-- Fuel & emission systems
etc. etc.
Of course, different cars / circumstances / restoration approaches will tend to suggest different approaches... so...
How hard would it be to soft-code the data schema so that it can be refined/modified as needed (i.e. as a schema design read in at the start of run
time)? For the casual user, the standard default schema could be used, but for the tougher case the schema could be extended/modified so that e.g.
"Reduction Gearboxes" could extend the "Final Drive" section of the "Driveline" section.
This would also necessitate a change in approach that I think would be healthy anyway, which is to keep the project costs (both budget estimate and
actuals) together with the other data at the level of each node of the tree.
Each of "Bodies" and "Filters" would have provision for a budget and an actual cost to be held together with the part numbers,
etc. etc., and the budget and estimate for the item "Air Cleaners" would be the sum of the the preceding two items' budgets and
estimates *plus*, of course, any budget and estimate amounts specifically allocated at the "Air Cleaners" level. At the "Project"
(i.e. top node) level, the project budget and actual would be automatically determined.
This approach would also allow for Dasdubber's suggestion, as the service of chrome-plating the air filter bodies could simply sit alongside the
cost of the bodies, e.g.
Driveline
- Engine
-- Induction
++ Air cleaners
++++ Bodies
++++*** Purchase
++++*** Strip and rechrome
++++ Filters
Sorry for all the data structure symbols, but I know this forum is going to strip off my careful indenting ... grrrrrr.
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posted on December 31st, 2003 at 06:30 PM
definitely a cool idea. maybe beside the original there could be room for others to add there comments about other ways that they did the same job,
different suppliers and prices that they used etc. so that we can have a comprehensive database of options like a modern version of the now seemingly
antiquated type2.org
Reimagined/Recycled/Upcycled Cool
Rossco
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posted on January 1st, 2004 at 05:46 PM
Fantastic
Happy New Year to you all.
Dasdubber and Modulus,
Fantastic responses. I really do appreciate your comments and suggestions, it's exactly what I was after.
Modulus,
No offence has been taken, as I mentioned before I am no mechanic and haven't been privy to the highs and lows of a restoration before. To be
quite honest, I haven't thought much about the various types of vehicle before ie: campers, various bodies, sunroofs and alike. Sounds like
theres a whole bunch of variables that must be taken into account.
My original intention was to provide a basic set of categories for the casual user as well as give the 'power user' the facility to add
categories, sub sections etc. just as you suggested. Great minds think alike! Or is it more the case that Fools rarely differ?
Currently the app looks to see if this is the first time it has been loaded, and if so, it creates a basic empty database on the fly - before the
interface is displayed. If it isn't the first time, it simply loads the previously created database. In the long run I probably will give the
user the ability to choose a database to load. This would be helpful to those that have more than one resto on the go at any one time, or to look at
previous restos undertaken earlier.
I know that it is impossible to provide all the required categories or subsections, as we all have different requirements and vehicles, hence the
facility for the user to 'modify' the app to their particular requirements. I will be providing a wizard that will painlessly walk the user
through adding, modifying or deleting categories/subsections etc.
What I really want to sort out is the 'Basic' tree first. One that can get the user off to a good start. After getting used to the app, and
having a good whinge about me because the app doesn't have exactly what they want - they then can utilise the Wizard and add what they want, and
then think I'm god or something similar. This of course would make us both happy.
I've been building apps for too long now, and I'm realistic enough to know that I won't get it right first time. Maybe that's why
I'm not working for Bill Gates? Hmmm. Also, having never had the pleasure, (pain?), of rebuilding a 30hp donk, or stripping a gearbox, I need
help with what I should add to the tree.
A list from you experts would be fantastic. Something like you have illuded to in your reply would be great. Also what fields to display when a tree
item is selected would be really helpful too! Pretty please!?!? Maybe someone could email me their current spreadsheets, who knows
it may just be what the doctor ordered?
Your comments about budget and expenses mirrors my intention too. It's uncanny - are you my long lost twin or something?
Please remember that I am doing this in my spare time, which seems to be very small these days. I love fiddling with code, (what a
sicko), so any help with content will be gladly taken onboard.
Looking foward to the next installment,
Cheers,
Rossco.
BenettonVW
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posted on January 1st, 2004 at 06:24 PM
Yeah, fantastic idea. My only other issue was will it be national, as in broken down into state by state.. eg. I am in Vic, and don't
particularly want to send my stuff to Perth or Brisbane to be chromed.. just an example, but I think the point is made.
Rossco this seems like a fantastic pipedream, and needless to say would be most useful to most members on this site. I would encourage people to get
behind this great idea.
I know where there is a few sites that show chassis numbers and so on.. However Aussie chassis numbers are usually different as they have 19 at the
start of the Beetles, for example.
THE LOWEST WITH THE MOSTEST BLING BLING WINS!!
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posted on January 1st, 2004 at 07:13 PM
Why not web enable it?
Rossco - you're using the HTML dialogs from Visual Studio.
It's not too hard to make the app into a proper ASP.NET application, and then people wouldn't have to download anything, and it would work
on Mac/Linux, etc
Just a suggestion.
Andrew
robnjo
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posted on January 1st, 2004 at 07:32 PM
Quote:
This is a request for some advice.
YEAH I GOT SOME ADVICE FOR YA MATE....if thats your own drawing put it on some tee shirts and I buy one.great pic
ROB
Rossco
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posted on January 1st, 2004 at 11:24 PM
Me again...
Thanks again for the feedback.
Firstly, please understand that I have only just had the idea, and so far haven't gotten too far into it as yet.
I really only intended to make a stand-alone application that could be used any time you desired and be easily modified. A perfect example of use
would be for those lucky enough to have laptops, so they could take the app into the garage with them and work with it 'in situ' as it
where.
BenettonVW, there is no intention to hard code any info such as suppliers or state based companies etc. This sort of info is left to
the user to add. There just are too many variables to add otherwise. Besides, the data will only be accessable by you, so there isn't any need to
add a whole heap of stuff you'll never need. It'd only over-bloat the app.
Semi Techo bit follows...
So far the app 'talks' to windows via API messages. In simple terms it is windows that draws the interface. This is deliberate, as we all
use different versions of windows. I am running Windows XP - hence the look. Those running 2000 or 98 will get their particular look and feel. As for
vanderaj's comment about using the HTML dialogs from Visual Studio, I'm sorry but I'm not. But it would make life a
whole lot easier for me if I did. But users of 'lower' versions of windows wouldn't be able to use the app.
Yes I know that some of you are using Macs etc, and this app won't work on them , so maybe I should be making a web version instead. But this would demand that you must be logged onto the web to use it. Not
always an option I'm afraid. So I think that I should probably get the thing running before I think about other delivery systems.
I really do appreciate the advice and good wishes. As BenettonVW has said, it all looks like a, and I quote, "fantastic
pipedream". I hope that it doesn't end up that way, and I'll do my best to deliver. But Rome wasn't built in a day.
Stay tuned,
Rossco
P.S. robnjo, I'm afraid that I can't take credit for the piccie, so I guess there won't be any T-Shirts this year!
vanderaj
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posted on January 2nd, 2004 at 01:06 AM
If you carefully write the program to seperate out database logic from the presentation layer, it will minimize the agony of porting the tool at a
later date.
If you're going to release it for free, why not inspect a license at http://www.opensource.org and then create an account at SourceForge http://www.sourceforge.net. This will give you the ability to let other people help you write and deliver the program. One
person writing a large project has a tendancy to never finish
I'm a developer there like nearly a million others. There's a CVS plugin available for Visual Studio, so you could directly work with it
from SF's CVS repository, otherwise using TortoiseCVS is my favored method.
scarey!)
posted on January 1st, 2004 at 05:46 PM
posted on January 1st, 2004 at 06:24 PM
posted on January 1st, 2004 at 07:32 PM
, so maybe I should be making a web version instead. But this would demand that you must be logged onto the web to use it. Not
always an option I'm afraid. So I think that I should probably get the thing running before I think about other delivery systems.