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 Ian Bugden
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| posted on January 11th, 2004 at 09:13 PM |
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Hotting up a 1200
Hi All,
I am thinking of doing up a 1200 (40hp) to put in my '59. The reason I am going this way instead of the 1600 is due to size (the '59 has a
very tight engine bay) What I was thinking of was dual 34ict webers, 1.25:1 ratio rockers, ported heads, decent exhaust.
I have heard of bigger pistons and cylinders for the 40horse that take capacity out to a 1385cc (83mm???) are these stile available? or are they any
good? If they are the bizz does anyone have a set the would want to sell?
What I want from this engine is decent power increase over my 36hp (so I can make it up hills) and reliability. I was think of a Judson for the 36
but I do not want to stress it too much without rebuilding the engine.
Please help me out with some advice and helpful comments.
Regards
Ian Bugden
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail.....
But a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damm that was fun!!!"
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 vw54
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| posted on January 12th, 2004 at 06:36 AM |
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| Quote: |
bigger pistons and cylinders for the 40horse that take capacity out to a 1385cc
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These are not available new anymore only if you can find some old stock which i doubt.
You carnt get dual webbers for a 1200 single port heads you would be over carbureting it, and would have to hand make some mainfolds.
Your better of installing a single port 1500 engine like i have in my Orange Smoothie... no problems fitting just a little tight and you have to cut
or trim the top of the R/H side heater box by about 1" to make extra clearance.
By the time you spend your money on all those bits you could have the same HP for 1/4 of the price, by using a 1500.
If you do up the 1500, you carnt buy new Barrels n Pistons for it either so it will be a 1600 single port when your finished.
This would be the easiest engine change
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matara
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| posted on January 12th, 2004 at 07:14 AM |
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Is it really that hard to put a 1600Dp in an Oval!!
You could put a 356 porsche motor in there if yo want some more go (for your dough of course!) Old Skool Speed....
Steve
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matara
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| posted on January 12th, 2004 at 07:17 AM |
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Oh! and if your going 1200 40HP, everything is twice as hard to get and costs twice as much.
one thing you could do is trying to get two standard carbs rigged up. perhaps you could modify a pair off a 1500S Type 3?
Cheers
Steve
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Ian Bugden
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| posted on January 13th, 2004 at 05:17 PM |
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Dave,
The cutting involved to get the 1500 sp in, is that on the body or on the engine tinware?
How do you go with reaching sparkplugs etc?
Would the 34 ict's fit?
Thanks
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail.....
But a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damm that was fun!!!"
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vw54
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| posted on January 13th, 2004 at 06:49 PM |
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Ian
Dont cut the body work. You have to reduce the heaight of the L/H heater box by reduce or making the top section flat.
just get a grinder and slice the top inch or so off and re braze a new bit of flat steel onto it again and paint it with some paint to stop rust.
No problems changing the spark plugs although i have remove all the sound insulation material from the rear and side fire walls.
The Type 3 carbies will fit but you will have to make mainifolds and linkages etc your better off with the single carby mine runs great.
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 13th, 2004 at 06:51 PM |
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may be wrong but evem ICT's only come with twin port manifolds
Futue te ipsum!!!
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lugnuts
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| posted on January 14th, 2004 at 01:33 AM |
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I hope you are ive got some on order.:P |
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Ian Bugden
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| posted on January 14th, 2004 at 05:39 PM |
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ICT's come in single port as well, just a little harder to find.
I thank everyone that has responded thus far it has been a big help!:bounce
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail.....
But a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damm that was fun!!!"
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Bizarre
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| posted on January 14th, 2004 at 08:00 PM |
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humpfh!
yep - just looked at ac.net and there they were
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=FSK0001&c...
Futue te ipsum!!!
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alen V
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| posted on January 14th, 2004 at 09:46 PM |
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to hot ur 1200 weapon up u will need to follow the following step below..
1. place motor in vehicle witch can transport it to its grave.. THE TIP... seriouly a standard 1600 will got better then a hotted up 1200 and it will
last long... there is people with 1600 in the early model beetles :thumb bye bye |
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Kombi Dad
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| posted on January 15th, 2004 at 08:24 PM |
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Stan Pobjoy up at Coffs Harbour was able to source 1380 barrels and psitons for me a year or so ago to rebuild a 1200 for my 63 single cab.
Don't know how it will go out on the road as it is so close to the final push out of the workshop. Maybe I will let you know when it does and
how it goes. It has a standard carby that has been rejetted and of course it is balanced etc. by Stan.
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whatnow
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| posted on January 17th, 2004 at 01:06 AM |
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i have read that using "B" P&C kits (set up with the piston pin closer to the piston crown for 82mm + stroke motors) in shortened
standard (or "B" barrels will give you a narrow motor.
1776-1916cc.
another thing to think of, i have heard that pobjoy hillclimb spec 1916 motors need to use 1200 pushrod tubes an 1600 tubes are too long... so you
could get HEAPS of power and still fit the motor in a standard early engine bay.
just some thoughts.
henry.
edit the above options would cost more than a dollar od two.
from everything i have read/tried, adding a good exhaust will give you the best added power per cubic $. after that some headwork... 3 angled valve
job and then port mods (see the "how to hotrod VW engines", published by HP books for the info on how to mod the ports yourself). after that
there were twin carb kits made to suit 36 and 40 hp 1200's using two rejeted standard carbs, complete kits will probably be hard to find but the
manifolds are the most important part. much more than this and you will end up spending big $$$.
if you are willing to run J pipes instead of heater boxes and mess around with the tinware a little (ie use an aftermarket rear tin piece or poss a
36hp tin) and poss narrow/trim the cylinder tin you should be able to fit a 69mm stroke motor, 1300-1916 motor into an early car. a thought to keep in
mind is some extractors might not clear the rear valence of an early car (i tried to fit thunderbird extractors under my 63 but ended up using a
lukey? tuck away system).
to sum up, i had a mild 1776 (very mild cam, stock heads and kadrons) in a 63 beetle (that had bent frame horns that pushed the motor 1/4 to 1/2 an
inch to the right) that fitted, inmodified, into the engine bay. the only trick needed was to remove the right rocker cover to get the engine in and
out (bent frame horns)(oh taking the fan belt off helped too). it was a tight fit but worked.
pulling the plugs needed a flex coupling and was much much easier with the air cleaners off (removing the balance pipes was good too) and often left
me with skinned knuckles but being able to easily run off the 90mph speedo on a standard 1200 g'box even with 4 people and a weeks worth of
camping gear made it all worth while.
simply starting with a 1600DP motor isn't a hastle and is probably much cheaper in the long run.
hope all this helps.
henry.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 17th, 2004 at 08:39 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by whatnow
i have read that using "B" P&C kits (set up with the piston pin closer to the piston crown for 82mm + stroke motors) in shortened
standard (or "B" barrels will give you a narrow motor.
1776-1916cc.
another thing to think of, i have heard that pobjoy hillclimb spec 1916 motors need to use 1200 pushrod tubes an 1600 tubes are too long... so you
could get HEAPS of power and still fit the motor in a standard early engine bay.
henry.
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mmmmm I don't think so.
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whatnow
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| posted on January 17th, 2004 at 12:28 PM |
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if you want to talk to people who have built 69 stroke motors with "B" pistons go to http://www.cal-look.com and to the forum section.
as for the pobjoy bit i was just repeating what i heard around the traps.
henry.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 17th, 2004 at 11:59 PM |
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I thought it was a hotting up a 1200 post ????
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Ian Bugden
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| posted on January 18th, 2004 at 04:21 PM |
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I will probably end up running a 1600 tp as it seems to be the cheaper and easier option. I most likley would run either the 34mm ict webbers or
kadrons, and a nice exhaust.
I will still run the split case gearbox and keep it 6v. This should give me nice acceleration without breaking the gearbox.
Although the idea of doing a 1200 is still appealling, not too many people have done it before and it would still have that nostalgic look and feel
about it.
Ian.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail.....
But a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damm that was fun!!!"
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TheGermanFolks
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| posted on January 18th, 2004 at 05:05 PM |
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heres my take on the whole thing, for what its worth anyways.
vw54 has the right idea, but remember, a 1600 is the same width of a 1500. engine width depens on crank size, and they use the same. however for some
reason, 1500's seem to be cheaper. put some 88mm slip ins in it and you got a 1641.
But I can respect someone building a 40 horse too. Im building one myself, and if it were for any other reason than me building an EMPI car, I wouldnt
do it. its very costly. My 83mm P&L's were not cheap. And the same goes for my EMPI counterweighted crank. Cams are the same, but on a 40
horse, I would recommend getting the case machined for cam bearings for safety's sake.
It is VERY possible to build a deciently high horsepower 40 horse, but you have to hunt out alot of parts and use every trick available.
Scott R.
PRAISE THE LOWERED
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on January 18th, 2004 at 06:41 PM |
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You could always hot up the 36hp
That's what I've done, not really cost effective, but something different
Valves are the size of a 1600 (approx), ported heads with matched ported manifolds,compression is 9:1, fully balanced, custom cam, eight dowelled
crank, hardened lifters and cam faces, high volume oil pump,pobjoy Anti-surge sump,009 dizzy, twin 28pict carbies, modified standard exhaust. Will rev
past 6000, but will crack the crank if you did !! so 5000rpm max limit. The same motor combo was used by a VW racer called Alan Challis (historic
class), who raced against old Jag's, Mga's etc and WON the class ! He used a counterweighted 36hp crank which I was going to use , but due
to the poor quality of the 36hp crank it was cracked to pieces.
I should have found/used an okrasa.
If you did all this to a 1200 (40hp) using the better quality crank they have, you would have a little ripper
as I said not really cost effective though 
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