| [ Total Views: 2002 | Total Replies: 11 | Thread Id: 18107 ] |
|
|
 Blue65
A.k.a.: Yau
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 298
Threads: 93
Registered: September 30th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Retrospective
|
| posted on January 22nd, 2004 at 11:40 PM |
|
|
1641cc vs 1776cc
hello,
I've been reading about engine modifications and upgrades. And I got a question about the 1641. Is it true that the thin cylinder walls of the
1641cc cause it to overheat and give all sorts of problems?
As for the 1776cc - is it suppose to be a better improvement over the 1641cc due to the fact that the crank case is bored out to make way for good
sized cylinders?:beer
But still if the crank case is bored out - wouldn't that weaken it?
And so which is better? The 1776 or 1641cc? ie in terms of durability and reliability and heat tolerance?
______________________
Owner of a 1964 VW Beetle, 1641cc engine, etc..
|
|
|
NigeType3
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 371
Threads: 32
Registered: December 20th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth W.A.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Speedy
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 09:49 AM |
|
|
Hi there I have a 1641 in my Type 3 Square and I have no problems with it overheating. That all said and done thought this engine came with the car
and as their is nothing rong with it its staying in there. But if i was to build a new motor for it Id build the biges one I could practically afford.
Thes day you'd only realy start to have problems of weekness when you start using large bores & stroke combinations. Go the 1776 and make
shore you use a balanced crank and youll be right.
Nige :thumb
|
|
|
 Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 10:06 AM |
|
|
Blue65 - are we related???
Once again you are going to get every different opinion.
Here are mine
1641 - are 87's and are thinner than 85.5. That said they are better than slip in 88's
I wouldnt bother with 87's cause by JUST doing the Pand C change you aing going to notice much different.
When you go 90.5 you HAVE to split the case and for the little money required you can throw a nice can in and balance the crank. Probabally get a
counterweighted one.
If you are doing that you may as well get 94's
The difference between 1585 and 1914 is 20% and cubes DO make a difference
But the difference between 1641 and 1585 is 3.5% - Stuff all
If you did a 1776 and ONLY changed P&C's i doubt you would notice much of a difference. It is all the other stuff - carbs cam compression
ratio, light fly wheel, valves, head porting, matched manifolds etc etc
Overheating - it HAS to. It is thinner. How much is another question. A 1641 in a light bug in Tasmania is not as much of a problem as a 1641 in a
1973 Kombi in Darwin that regularly drives to Katherine with 9 people, 4 dogs, towing a trailor and a load of fire wood.
Personally i would build a hot 1585 and get the safety of the extra mm's in the walls.
One of the favourites of the old skool was machine in 88's. This gave 1679 but were thick as. A big favourite with busses
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Blue65
A.k.a.: Yau
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 298
Threads: 93
Registered: September 30th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Retrospective
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 12:17 PM |
|
|
1641cc Engine
I should have added that I already installed the engine into the Beetle - a 1965 ex-1200cc model.
My mechanic in Thomastown - highly respected in the Melbourne circles - fitted it in for me.
The engine was also balanced, and we installed in quality parts like a Mahle 87.5mm PnC, Engle 110 camshaft, heavy duty springs etc..
All up the engine cost me about $3700. (I also put in a stronger transmission but that's another story.
The reason why I went for a 1641cc is because - hey I don't have any major mechanical experience - and I trust my mechanic. He's a good
bloke and has helped me out in the past. I went to AVWPC and Volkspower before in the past but... anyhow that is another story.
:alien
______________________
Owner of a 1964 VW Beetle, 1641cc engine, etc..
|
|
|
Blue65
A.k.a.: Yau
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 298
Threads: 93
Registered: September 30th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Retrospective
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 12:22 PM |
|
|
hello blue74
haha, no we are not related i dun think.
I read what you said Blue74 and I see what you are getting at.
But nonetheless if we do machine the case and increase the power to a 1776 or 1916 etc.. won't the engine heat increase exponiently too?
And surely machined out the crank case to make way for the larger PnC will weaken the case, won't it?
Cheers,
B65
| Quote: | Originally
posted by blue74l
Blue65 - are we related???
Once again you are going to get every different opinion.
|
______________________
Owner of a 1964 VW Beetle, 1641cc engine, etc..
|
|
|
Blue65
A.k.a.: Yau
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 298
Threads: 93
Registered: September 30th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Retrospective
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 12:24 PM |
|
|
hello blue74
I should mention that this setup is for street-use.
I like power but I ain't like these fellahs
http://members.ij.net/gg/E46_M3_VS_Eclipse_GSX.wmv
http://sys12.cs.jmu.edu/hawleycj/vids/aftermath-low.WMV
You might need to cut and paste the end parts of that hyperlink.
______________________
Owner of a 1964 VW Beetle, 1641cc engine, etc..
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 01:06 PM |
|
|
"But nonetheless if we do machine the case and increase the power to a 1776 or 1916 etc.. won't the engine heat increase exponiently too?
"
Yes - ish. What the problem with the thinner (87, 88 slip in and 92's) is that the heat created warps the barrels and causes blow by. Rings dont
seal properly. Stock cooling should be able to cope with the heat. It is how the steel copes with the heat
"And surely machined out the crank case to make way for the larger PnC will weaken the case, won't it? "
Not really but depends. This is where talk of case savers and 8 vs 10mm studs and dual pressure relief and decking comes in
94mm is the largest in stock cases.
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 01:14 PM |
|
|
If you already have a 1640 kit and a 1776 kit, go the 1776 :thumb
If you have neither then go 1916 :thumb
same machining costs and the P&C will probably cost the same as well .
Plenty of posts etc regarding heat, reliability blah blah blah, proven world wide you will have no probs, if built correctly.
|
|
|
karmannghia60
Custom Title Time!
Karmann Ghia Sucker
Posts: 1459
Threads: 388
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 01:16 PM |
|
|
I always wondered about why most people in Oz would say 1641 is not the way to go although its is used a lot in the US and UK
|
|
|
twoguns
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
simply aircooled
Posts: 4275
Threads: 226
Registered: November 7th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: city, sydney.
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Grey
Mood: simply cruizin'
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 03:00 PM |
|
|
mate you did the right thing to go a 1641. they are a good strong motor for the money. my thumper has been thru hell and back but is still there.
but i gotta say i just got a 1776 twin kad and it has blown me away. this next step up was a biggin, and i am so happy i did. and im sure hte 1916
and so on is even better. but they would ev been too hot from all i spoke to for my bus. if you want to play safe go 1776. power for work is good. if
wan t abit more and am very concious of what your motor is doing then the sky and wallet is hte limit.
would suggest that you have a pressure, temp guage set up, if you havent already.
Simply Cruzin'...
|
|
|
Blue65
A.k.a.: Yau
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 298
Threads: 93
Registered: September 30th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Retrospective
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2004 at 11:33 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by twoguns
would suggest that you have a pressure, temp guage set up, if you havent already.
|
I talked with many people over the internet over the merits of the 1641cc and 1776cc++ and 90% of them say that the way to go is to bore out the crank
case to make way for bigger cylinders etc... But when I talk to the VW mechanics here - they support the 1641cc.
Anyhow its been interesting hearing the discussions.
But placing an oil temperature gauge would be great. Is there a DYI kit available?
I will be getting the hoodjacks to place into my Beetle lid in about two months time.
______________________
Owner of a 1964 VW Beetle, 1641cc engine, etc..
|
|
|
lugnuts
A.k.a.: Mike
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1070
Threads: 88
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney,Castle Hill
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: semi-retiring
|
| posted on January 24th, 2004 at 03:40 AM |
|
|
Time =Money,maybe theres more profit in a quick build 1641 than a longer build time 1776,but hey i dont know,if yuv got a 1641 and its built right
enjoy it,theres a million of them out there and there not all self destructing handgrenades. |
|
|
lugnuts
A.k.a.: Mike
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1070
Threads: 88
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney,Castle Hill
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: semi-retiring
|
| posted on January 24th, 2004 at 04:32 AM |
|
|
Hey Blue 65,dude have you got twin carbs on this motor,i gots to know. |
|
|
Blue65
A.k.a.: Yau
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 298
Threads: 93
Registered: September 30th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Retrospective
|
| posted on January 24th, 2004 at 01:28 PM |
|
|
Not yet
Hello,
I don't have the twin carbs yet. I am looking for a twin 35mm ?
The engine is also relatively new and my mechie told me to take it easy in the first year of use.
b65
______________________
Owner of a 1964 VW Beetle, 1641cc engine, etc..
|
|
|
