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 soulsurfer
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| posted on July 1st, 2004 at 08:03 PM |
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sandblast vs paint striper?
i have had 2 estimates to have my 70 bus taken to bare metal, rust/panel beating/sprayed a new colour. One wants to sandblast and one doesnt, says
can cause metal to bend, will sand blast tricky spots like seams and window sills/etc.
is there a benefit of either, or is one cheaper for the repairer to do? What process in the restoration is the part that "kills" the rust. I have
noticed that edges, like on the engine vents and gutters seem to be the first thing to start to rust after a respray, is there something i should ask
or make sure is done to these areas extra?
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soulsurfer
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| posted on July 1st, 2004 at 08:27 PM |
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previous thread
just read a previous thread hashing this out...but didnt see a real clear one is better than the other...but it was very helpfull, but what i wasnt
clear on is that once the paint is removed the car still has to be sanded to remove "surface rust", is that correct? obviously the bigger bits need
to be cut out, so..on the issue of the edges..
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5PL1TDCS10N
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| posted on July 1st, 2004 at 09:08 PM |
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Hi Soulsurfer,
Sandblasting does warp large panels due to the heat/pressure that is created. There are softer media that can be used like bead and shell etc.
Getting big flat panels straight takes alot of time to get straight.
I personally would only blast the tricky areas/rusty and strip the big areas with paint stripper or orbital sander.
Once the bus is blasted it is always sprayed with etch primer to protect it.
Use seam sealer/dripchek in between seams and overlapping sheetmetal to protect from rust. It can be painted over.
Helbus will be able to give you A1+ advice....
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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
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| posted on July 2nd, 2004 at 08:29 AM |
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Yes sand blasting will warp panels. It removes anything that is not steel. It pits/ etches the steel to give a good surface for parts like pans,
underbody or suspension components. It really 'eats' all of the rust away and leaves you with the holes you cant normally see.
Media/ plastic bead blasting wont warp panels. It only removes paint and any other loose surface stuff. It wont remove all body filler only the
surface of it. It is more expensive a regular size sedan costing about $700 and individual panels $70-100. A bus may be around the $1000 mark. It
doesnt 'eat' into rust, and some rust will still have to be removed.
A sander used incorrectly can warp panels too. If held in one spot it heats and warps panels.
You ask about 'killing' rust.
Sandblasting will entirely remove all traces of rust and leave you with raw steel that has to be primed within hours.
Wire or clean strip wheels get rid of most of it.
Remainder of rust can be 'converted' using milky type product you brush on. it converts and seals, but it is not designed to be painted over unless
you own a tractor. It is for internal or underbody use.
You must remove all of the outer panel rust by hand if you wish to 'restore' your car back to an original rust free environment. We have established
sandblasting will warp them and rust converter is not for shiny outer paint finishes.
The very very tiny remainder of rust pitting that is left on any outer surface panels can be treated using a metal treatment like Deran-A or
De-oxidine. It is an acid and the instructions must be followed very closley.. You do not leave it on as it is an acid and will eat metal itself and
cause rust.
It usually takes about 4-6 hours to do a body shell if you ar serious and want to follow instructions.
Then I recommend a two pac etch primer/ red oxide within hours to preserve your treated shell.
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soulsurfer
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| posted on July 2nd, 2004 at 11:00 AM |
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THANKS AGAIN!!
ONCE AGAIN THANKS!!:beer:beer
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on July 2nd, 2004 at 11:15 AM |
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The edges of the rain channel etc seem to be a problem with not enough coverage and the paint is too thin... I suppose that is up to the painter... I
would be giving extra coats to the seams and ends of metal... but then I'm NOT a spray painter...
Lee ..
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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helbus
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| posted on July 2nd, 2004 at 11:32 AM |
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Yep definitley a good idea to seal up the gutter seams well and make sure the painter covers it well.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on July 2nd, 2004 at 11:22 PM |
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My Son, a spray painter, told Me that it usually happens when the New paint is being polished with cutting compound... [linishing cream]
They have to be careful that the disc with the cutting compound doesn't touch the seams and gutters etc too often as it will take the paint off if
the rubbing is excessive....
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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soulsurfer
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| posted on July 3rd, 2004 at 08:18 AM |
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rude?
would it be rude to bring a copy of this thread in to the sprayer and have them go over these suggestions with me?
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Robo
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| posted on July 3rd, 2004 at 08:27 AM |
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No really!
Blasting on a bus would be a disaster, there are not many companys geared up to do specialised Automotive work, the equipment needed is completely
different to blasting structural steel. You have to have a unit that uses high air volume low pressure, and a bead media. I have been told that there
is a place in Brisbane that dose this sort of work, but at $180 an hour it is not cheap.
I am currently doing a Beetle for my wife and am using paint stripper, it is messy and very slow, and when you find plastic filler it has to be
completely removed. But at least it dosent warp the panel. Rome wasen't built in a day, and resto's take years to do properly, thats just the nature
of the beast.
Lots of late nights in the garage weekends and all the spare time you got, elbow grease and hard work is the only way!
Rob...
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Robo
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| posted on July 3rd, 2004 at 08:30 AM |
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Shit you guys are fast
While I was typing four replys beat me to it!
Rob...
Boxer Power
Member of DMLRK.....Die Mittler Lebuns Resto Komeradschaft
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 3rd, 2004 at 11:35 AM |
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With the experience I had with blasting I wouldn't go near them again.I got hold of steel sliding sun roof from an early Beetle and stripped it all
out.The actual sun roof panel had some slight surface rust but was perfectly flat and it had some minor pitting around the frame and at the drain
holes-so took it to a local crowd and I couldn't impress on the bloke how rare and valuable this thing was.He said OK and would put his best bloke on
it.Well the slider bit came back looking like the ocean waves-really clean but rooted.Will cost big time now to have it fixed.I took my Oval body to
Adelaide to have it dipped-best experience ever-it came back in perfect condition with etch primer everywhere.Wish I had him do the sunroof as
well.Cost $1,000 for the stripping for everything except guards-have new glass ones to go on.
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soulsurfer
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| posted on July 3rd, 2004 at 04:31 PM |
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elbow grease vs $$$
well, i am not keen to DIY so I will be paying a professional to do it for me rob! but point well taken on the time and patience factor..but since i
have opted to have a pro do the job i need to get as much information to make sure i get the best job i can. thanks again all
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BiX
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| posted on July 4th, 2004 at 03:15 PM |
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Is thats kingscliff as in just south of the tweed? contact dj machanical (54280122), if ur interested in blasting as they have just installed a booth
big enough to take kombi's (so they could blast kombi's)
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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