| [ Total Views: 579 | Total Replies: 21 | Thread Id: 25932 ] |
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 Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 10:44 AM |
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what to do to my pan........ 57 Oval
OK, I am wondering about a few things now and I guess I might as well vent them here and see if anyone has ideas and previous experience.
What are the advantages, apart from the obvious, in converting to IRS. And what else do I have to do besides the conversion itself?
I want a 2..0 engine eventually, what is the best gearbox to fit in this case?
Cheers all.
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boof2332
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 11:31 AM |
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Hey Gibbo,
Plenty of guys are driving around with swing axel beetle's which are set up correctly and handle fine. If it just a street cruiser or a daily driver
then IRS is not a necessity...
Get a set of drop spindles to lower and do the disc brake conversion in one go, a set of sway bars, shocks and all will be O.K.
When you say 2 litre do you mean 1916 or similar, or type 4.
matt
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 11:44 AM |
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Sorry, just trying to get back in the swing of things again, after a 12 year break!
what bits go which end?
Ta
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56astro
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 12:36 PM |
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What do you intend to do with the car?
race
cruise
eat rice
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 01:02 PM |
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its gonna be a cal-look cruiser, low, raked, smooth.
gonna have a 1916, nice.
Any tips on a gearbox to match that lump?
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Che Castro
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 01:06 PM |
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im doing a pan swap now. Its a pretty fiddly job to weld the trailing arm pivots onto the swing axle pan, and you still end up with a king and link
front. so its better to just swap the pan as a whole.
I think for street driving, IRS is probably worth the trouble, they handle a fair bit better and are a lot more predictable - they dont suffer from
wild camber changes. Also its a lot easier to do a rear disc conversion, you wont get oil all over you when you pull off the bearing cover, tranny
can be taken out without having to disconnect the brakes etc.
The other reason to swap a pan is that if u swap to a later one you get factory discs as well as teh larger late style rear drums as standard. It
saves u the hassle of having to go discs on a king and link front end. The balljoint front end is also more adjustable and handles better too. The
only reason a K&L is better (that i can think of) is that they are tougher so this is why the offroaders use them.
I'm finding the most time consuming part and expensive part about swapping a pan is actually building up the pan itself, rebuilding brakes, putting
in new fuel lines, doing the front end etc. There are so many things that are a lot easier when the body is off - stuff to do never ends!
So in short, a pan swap you have the access to rebuild basically the whole driveline, but you'll still have a car to drive in the meantime. I reckon
$$$ wise you'd end up spending about the same but the IRS pan would handle and ride better. The downside is probably that it is more stuff to do.
You'll also need the space to do build and swap it as well.
Jon
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 01:29 PM |
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So.... in short, swap to a later pan with the front discs already in. Then get the IRS added.
If I am right you have to have a kombi gearbox with the IRS?
then stick on your lump and away you go!
right? :P
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56astro
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 02:08 PM |
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There are several model pans to look out for:
'69/'70 model semi auto beetles had ball joint front with IRS rear;
'76 also had BJ/IRS
The models in between had McPherson strut front susp.
Some people have had IRS welded in to a '68 or later std beetle but the welding job has to be spot on to get the geometry right.
As far as gearboxes go there are a couple of IRS beetle boxes to use. The pick for cruising would be the single side plate box which has a 3.88 ring
and pinion. There is also a 4.125 R&P IRS box that'd work OK in your instance, just the revs would be slightly higher than in the 3.88.
Do a search on the forum for previous threads concerning bellhousing mods depending on engine/gearbox combos.
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56astro
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 02:13 PM |
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.................... also,
the rear mounting brackets on the body near the rear wheel arch will need to be cut off and re-welded an inch or so higher. The mounting point on the
IRS shock absorber tower is different to the one on your original pan.
Does that make sense.
Check some of the pics on my web site, I think there is a pic there that shows it.
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 02:21 PM |
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Damn, why dont you live closer!!!
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56astro
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 02:24 PM |
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'cause NSW is better!!
:beer
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 02:38 PM |
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lol, I dont care, as long as its warmer than London!
Anyone else that can throw pearls of wisdon at me, please do!
[Edited on 14-7-2004 by Gibbo]
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 barls
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 02:55 PM |
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engines in the back
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 03:17 PM |
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Oh dear, have we sunk that low already?
:P
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barls
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 03:21 PM |
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no but i couldnt help myself and the rest will be upset that i got in first. but seriously go the t4 motor. there strong, reliable and have the
tourque that you want and a lot of the guys run them
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 03:28 PM |
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So def the T4 lump with a T4 gearbox, and the IRS, cool.
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barls
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 03:38 PM |
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even the 73 Lbug box would do you,with its single side plate its the strongest stock bug box and its irs as well
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 03:50 PM |
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Now all I have to do is find a reasonably price floor then, hmmm.
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barls
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 03:55 PM |
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good luck on that one
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Che Castro
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 05:31 PM |
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Here's what you have to do to your body, great post with pics by dasdubber
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=8392
Jon
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Dasdubber
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| posted on July 14th, 2004 at 10:02 PM |
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Gibbo - save yourself some cashola and buy Brad's floorpan (blup58) whom you bought the oval body from!!
By the way, hope you enjoy that oval - lots of blood sweat and tears went into its repair (many hours of welding and resto work done by myself and
brad).
Getting back to the pan, we replaced both floor pan halves (and reinforced the seat tracks since they are reputably weaker in repro pans), Brad had
Custom Offroad do the IRS conversion, as well as move the shifter back 6 inches (and shift rod shortened), seat belt mounts installed, front beam
supports welded in. Also front gearbox mount has been lowered to accommodate the later gearbox. Had the whole lot sandblasted, etch primed and
por15'ed. When you say reasonably priced - well you can see the receipts from Brad for all the work done....for what it is, it is reasonably priced -
sorry to push it though!
Then there is the IRS box which has been fully rebuilt and never run - welded 3rd and 4th, heavy duty billet side plate, super diff, standard 1/2,
close (1.4) 3rd and (1.04) 4th ratio gears, 4.125r/p. Custom 3.1/2.0 mainshaft.
I have built a type IV for my 63 beetle - be prepared for some $$ outlay - they are much more exy than type I. Read up on shoptalkforums.com (type4rum
and aircooledtechnology forum) for lots of info.
Sorry to hijack your post with this blatant sales promotion!! I am sure you will work something out.
Cheers
Alan
[Edited on 14-7-2004 by Dasdubber]
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Che Castro
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 12:33 AM |
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Yeah brads pan is a bargain, it would several times the asking price to get it done to that stage. All the hard work has been done.
Jon
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Gibbo
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 08:07 AM |
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So.... anyone want to lend me two grand?
I would love the pan, but
1. I aint got the cash, and as hard as I try, it aint gonna come in the next couple of weeks!
2. Isnt doing the hard work the whole point?
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Che Castro
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 09:14 AM |
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U could probably score a 2nd hand semi-auto pan for about 500-1000. I dont think the welding and stuff is hard work, its just the running around and
organising, like taking it to the sandblasters and organising transport and stuff. its a bit of a PITA
Jon
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