| [ Total Views: 591 | Total Replies: 24 | Thread Id: 26009 ] |
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 General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 10:05 PM |
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Sore hands! (easy way to get barrel onto piston?
Hey all!
Is there an easier or less painful way of getting the barrel over the piston? I've shredded my $#&%* hands trying to get it all together with a
fresh set of rings with one of the barrels!
Heh, so far we have the dropped seat in no. 4 and a broken compression ring in 3. I hate to think what 1 and 2 have. It's not as if the motor's worn
out either. I can still see the chamfer marks on the bores!
Anyway, any suggestions?
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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ph billet
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 10:10 PM |
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you need a ring compreser it a thin metal strip that goes around the piston and holds the rings in close so it will slip into the barrel
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 10:44 PM |
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Thanks mate,
I'm going into town tomorrow and I was going to pick one up, but I wasn't sure if it was a waste of $. I have to pick up some tyres for my
trailer
To be honest I've never used one. I've always been a masochistic idiot and used my fingers.
I'll finally have my van back on the road again soon  ...I hope. Then
for the big move from nowhere, QLD to melb VIC!
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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ph billet
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| posted on July 15th, 2004 at 11:24 PM |
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their not expensive and will pay for its self on the first use , even cheaper for me as I made my own.
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555bug
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 12:41 AM |
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man you must have bear like grip I have no idea how you would be
successful. Anyway if you can get the ones that look like pliers as they are the best. |
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KruizinKombi
A.k.a.: Col
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 08:40 AM |
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VW's require a special ring compressor that has the ability to completely open up, enabling you to get the tool off again after the cylinder is on
the piston. Be careful what you buy.
A ring compressor is a worthwhile tool to have. Although assembly is possible with hands only, there is a risk of damaging the edges of the rings when
inserting them into the cylinder. A ring compressor helps avoid this.
Here's a pic of the ring compressor I used:
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Kruizin Kol
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Secoh
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 08:48 AM |
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my old and trusty bluepoint opening ring compressor worked, though it was a PITA to get it in place and remove it again. as stated, make sure you get
the type that comes apart or you won't get it back off once the barrel is in place, unless you fit the piston to the barrel, then fit the gudgeon pin
to the rod with the piston half in the barrel.
If it aint broke,
Make it go faster!!  |
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 Bizarre
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 10:12 AM |
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The way i was shown was to feed the piston in from the bottom, rather than down from the top.
Never used a ring compressor.
First couple of times i did my motor i came down from the top and yeah - real sore hands.
Then if you do it the other way - there is a chamfered(sp??) edge on the inside of the cylinder. You sit all the rings the way you want then and come
in from the bottom. The cylinder acts as the compressor
Futue te ipsum!!!
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 12:31 PM |
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I wish it were that simple, blue. The rings are just too damn springy and strong. They flatly refuse to go in properly. The little buggers are open
too far. If I'm not careful they partially come out of the lands. Anyway, getting the compressor today hopefully, so I'll keep you all posted!
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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GL1972
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 01:11 PM |
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I use a thin sheet style spring compressor that tightens with an allen key ($12 from KMart).
This is the process I use which I find the easiest.
Wrap it round the piston with just 5mm of the piston top potruding. Insert that end into the bottom of the barrel and carefull tap the piston through
with the handle of a wooden hammer. Stop when the last ring is in the barrel and leave the gudgeon pin hole exposed. Make sure you got the Piston
orientated correctly to the flywheel. Have the circlip that holds the gudgeon pin already inserted in the side between the barrels that are hard to
get to and insert the gudgeon pin in the other side by about 10mm. Slide the whole assembly onto the head studs until the gudgeon pin lines up with
the con rod little end. Carefully tap the gudgeon pin home with a copper drift and insert the other gudgeon pin clip. Look at the other side to ensure
the other clip is still securely in place. Now you can push the barrel home.
Hope it makes it easier for you.
Brendan:jesus |
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 09:46 PM |
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I went into town today....There doesn't seem to be a decent ring compressor within about 150km of here at least. I hate this %(&^&*^
place!!!!!
I'm getting one ordered in. It should be in on monday arvo. But that means another 120km of driving my father in law's godawful EA. He loves that
car more than life itself.
That is a good way of doing it, brendan, but in all honesty, I'll be damned if I'm pulling the gudgeon pin out again. I'm being a smartarse and
doing all of this without the oil cooler and the rest of the crap removed. It was hard enough the first time. On the bright side, I have invented a
gudgeon puller/inserter. It just needs some better materials.
I was actually considering making a mutant out of my oil filter spanner (strap type) and some aheet metal, or a couple of layers of coke can.
The weekend is reserved for electricals and general sprucing up if can't get the rings in. I'll keep you all posted.
Tristan
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 11:05 PM |
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The best way is to feed the piston into the bottom of the barrel. Use the barrel chamfer to help compress the rings, and use your thumbnails. Works
easy. easier than a ring compressor.
If your struggling, then there is probably something wrong. Did you put the rings in the cylinder without the piston first, to check the ring end gap?
If you don't have any ring end gap you'll never get the things in. And if you do you will break or seize the ring in the bore. Always check all the
ring end gaps before installing them on the pistons.
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Paul Aslanides
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| posted on July 16th, 2004 at 11:44 PM |
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May I suggest:
Coke cans are too soft.
Take a tin of peaches, or dogfood.
Feed self, or dogs.
Clean & dry the tin.
Cut down the tin to approx. length required.
Cut horizontally, right round.
Wrap strip around the piston rings, being carefull of the sharp edge. (Leave the top seam on the strip to protect your fingers).
Take one, two, or more hose clamps. Open them out and join them together, to get enough length.
Wrap this long hose clamp around the tin strip, join the ends and screw it up, so compressing the rings just enough to get them into the chamfered
base of the cylinder.
A large pair of scissors will cut the can, but you may need to start through the seam with tin snips, or a hacksaw. If so, be sure to clean all
metal chips from the strip.
If no hose clamps, heavy plastic cable ties might do the trick - with good pliers, and leverage in the right place, you may be able to pull up
sufficient tension in the cable ties to get the rings started in the bore.
If the tin is too small, and you can't get enough length to go right around the piston, then cut two strips of tin, fold back about 10 m/m of one
end - of each strip - interlock them and hammer the join flat. That should hold, esp. since the clamp or ties will go right around.
You're lucky it's an aircooled VW, and not a water-cooled, wet sleeved, horizontally opposed Jowett.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 17th, 2004 at 03:41 PM |
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With my hands i can get the dcompression rings in eventually, but when I get to the oiler, i'm stuck.
not sure what I'll do yet. Sorry, today's been a total writeoff. Hopefully tomorrow I'll wake up and today will be a distant memory.
Thanks for all the help.
Tristan
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 19th, 2004 at 10:24 PM |
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G'day, G'day!
After days of fruitless searching I realised that there are no ring compressors within at least a couple of hours drive from here. So I made my own.
I used an oil filter wrench that I have. The sort that has the big bolt that sticks straight out. The curve on the alloy bit was perfect for the
piston. Talk about a fluke! Oh and I used a chunk of metal hacked out of a chinaman's hat chimney pot. A bit thick but it was all I could find. It
did the job everntually. I had to do a bit of wriggling to get the rings to settle in, and then it just slid straight in.
Tomorrow I put the tinware back on (and straighten the bits i bent) and then tackle the other side of the motor. Oh and if I get time, rip out the
fuel pump and put the beetle's subaru pump in. Also borrowing the beetle's foglights and 3rd brake light. It's going in a shipping container, it
won't miss them.
I Think it was just the wire coil in the oil ring that was mostly giving me grief. Just needed that little bit extra force to get it.
Reminds me, what's better, the 2 piece oilers like that, or the 3 piece ones with the 2 thin ones and the corrugated middle bit?
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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ph billet
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| posted on July 19th, 2004 at 10:45 PM |
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congradulations, the satisfaction of it all. now on to the next job.
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Paul Aslanides
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| posted on July 19th, 2004 at 10:57 PM |
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The three-piece oil rings give better oil control.
Just over twenty years ago, in Church St, South Richmond,
Melbourne, we had a small power press which used to run all day, stamping out the corrugated bits for these rings.
And on a good day, I could knock out 30 to 35,000 contact breaker sets. Contactless ignition was just around the corner, but it took a while to
get here. Most of the racing cars at Warwick Farm, from the early '60's on, had electronic ignition, to the best of my knowledge.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 19th, 2004 at 11:57 PM |
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I never realised that people got through so many points!!!
Thought the 3 piece jobbies looked a touch of cut glass! Anyhow, there's no way I'm leaving oil rings in from the last set and replacing the
compressions. So I'll just stick with what I've got.
Still 2 pots to go. At least it's the easy side this time, and I don't need to remove any pistons stupid valve seat. Made a real mess of the piston. Reminds me, Number 3 had some nice gouges up the top of the top end of
the piston. Reminded me of gouges from being dragged along concrete. Damage must have been from a previous life. No damage to bore. broken ring, but I
think it's unrelated.
I am not looking forward to getting the motor back in. It was a right bastard to get out!
Tomorrow is the day hopefully. *deep breath* keep you all posted on what happens.
it's also the day the shipping container arrives. Wee! less than 2 weeks to make sure the old (insert worst expletive you can think of) of a kombi is
fully roadworthy and get everything packed etc. And go to melb!
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on July 20th, 2004 at 12:01 AM |
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I think I slid Mine in from the bottom...
I know I had now problems....
The ring compressor I have is the thick type for standard engines... not flat fours....
Paul
The Tin ring compressor using hose clamps or large cable ties was a great idea too...
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 20th, 2004 at 12:13 AM |
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The homebrew ring compressor idea was bloody brilliant!
Mine wasn't so hot, but it worked, and it just slid in with light hand pressure, so I'm happy.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
Custom Title Time!
Use your head, don't abuse it!
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| posted on July 20th, 2004 at 06:07 PM |
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DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I figured out why I was having so much bloody trouble!!!!
For some reason, the oil rings are too wide. Tried them on both sets of pistons. Same result. The little bugger got jammed solid in number two and I
ended up snapping it trying to get it out!
Apparently number 2's sparky was barely in too. It seems to have a heli-coil which went wonky and the sparky was only in about 2 turns. So that
leaves 1 fully functional pot.
Oh yeah. I totally overlooked a big mistake too 
The pistons in my car are innies, and the replacement one I put in is an outie. So I'm going to cheat and put an outie on number 2 to balance the
weight. Anyway I didn't like the look of 2 at all. It's one of those white metal ones, and the sides of it are discoloured dark brown.
So yeah, I'm having great fun. Looks like I'll have to be naughty and put the pick of the crop of old oil rings on the remaining 2 pistons
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Paul Aslanides
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| posted on July 21st, 2004 at 11:22 PM |
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Thanks, fellers. Hey - isn't there a 'photo or drawing somewhere of how to make an engine cradle for the VW ? Perhaps the club has one available to
members, or for hire ? It would sure make engine removal and replacement much easier. If not on wheels, skids would do.
Tips: Always check your rings by rolling them around the piston groove first, and measure the side clearance with a feeler gauge.
Now insert the ring into the bore, and push it down (into its normal working area) WITH THE PISTON. This ensures that it is sitting 'square
on' to the bore. Now measure the ring gap, and adjust as ness. Repeat with all other rings. If there is insufficient ring gap to allow for thermal
expansion, the ring may break.
If you are already familiar with those procedures, then please just ignore the above.
Sounds like you're making progress, and heading for a GENERAL SUCCESS. Gotta think POSITIVE.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 09:34 AM |
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Yeah, I goofed with the side clearance. But the thing I don't get is this. Why is it, with two sets of pistons, the oil rings were too wide. One of
the sets even had the same type of rings fitted too. All I can think of is a problem with tolerances in manufacture.
After some stuffing around I got the plug for no. 2 to screw in straight. destroyed a few scrap sparkies in the process.
For the record, I am seriously not looking forward to putting the motor back in. I barely got it out! Stupid thing got jammed in the bay.
Mmmmm...engine cradle. There's gotta be a design somewhere. I know I'd love one!
Thanks for the words of support, Paul!
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Paul Aslanides
Commited Dubber
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| posted on July 22nd, 2004 at 11:22 PM |
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You wrote:
...the oil rings were too wide. One of the sets even had the same type of rings fitted too.
................................................
Is this a second-hand set of pistons ? Then who knows what rings it had originally ? Perhaps later model rings were supplied for older pistons, or
vice versa.
With a concrete floor, you may be able to borrow/hire a trolley jack to install the engine. Why not a pallet jack ? Don't laugh - this is serious !
Measure the distance between fully closed and fully pumped up, then measure the height you need to raise the engine to. You may have to sit the
engine on a block of wood on the trolley jack, to get the height. Time/Patience/Engenuity. And Cheers.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 23rd, 2004 at 01:46 PM |
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hehe..thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately the only resources I had were what was at hand.
The engine is almost in now. Just have to get the engine and transmission to make sweet, sweet love.
We ended up using a hand winch to get the motor in. Worked beautifully too!!
We stacked up a couple of old truck batteries on each side of the top engine access and put the towbar on top as a means of attaching the winch. the
chains were attached to the engine mounts and the top two engine/bellhousing bolt holes. Basically went straight in. It just doesnt want to go that
last little bit though. Pretty sure the drive shaft is meshing alright though, It's just the tolerances are so fine it's a real problem! So I'm
just doing what I do with my beetle. Tightening them together. hehehe.
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
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| posted on July 23rd, 2004 at 05:38 PM |
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I don't know what you mean by too wide. If your putting new rings on old pistons then you have to scrape all of the carbon out of the ring grooves or
the ring won't fit. Carbon can set so hard it first appears to be part of the piston.
Do you mean the ring is too wide, or too deep?
Too wide wouldn't fit in at all. Too deep would fit in, but wouldn't go in deep enough. Carbon deposits usually give the impression of the ring
being too deep, cos the bottom of the ring land is full of rock hard carbon.
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General_Failure
A.k.a.: Tristan
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| posted on July 23rd, 2004 at 07:28 PM |
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I meant too wide. And I did thoroughly clean the ring lands. Like I said though, the compression rings fit perfectly, but no matter what piston I
tried the oil rings on, they were marginally too wide. And I had 2 completely different sets of pistons to try them on. The old rings in the spare set
were of the same manufacture as the new set. However, the new oil rings were too wide and jammed in the lands, whereas the old set fit as they
should.
If you have any idea what the deal is with it, I'd love to know.
Anyway, food beckons!
Tristan
If at first you don't succeed. Build, build again.
Vehicle: 1975 Special order delivery walkthrough panel based LCA pop-top camper. Motor: Nippon 1.8L Single port Wasserboxer, Transmission: 3 rib 002.
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