| [ Total Views: 1345 | Total Replies: 28 | Thread Id: 34513 ] |
|
|
 boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 22nd, 2005 at 07:27 PM |
|
|
Houston we have a problem!
Hi all,
We have got the car running although there are a few problems.
The temp switch is reading 124 degrees as soon as we switch on the computer. It is new and the ecu was tested by microtech this week. This input
maxing out seems to not enable us to tune the car from the unit.
It will not idle. There was a leak when we first got it running at the idle up motor...it was idling at 1500rpm. Since that has been corrected it will
stall.
It also feels as though it is running on 3 cylinders and has massive hessitation before roughly responding to throttle.
We are slowly trying to eliminate the possibles one by one....although there is no way I know even 30% of the possibles, so any help will be really
appreciated.
Matt
[Edited on 22-1-2005 by boof2332]
|
|
|
HotRodMatt
Wolfsburg Elder
If it's old or rare - cut it!
Posts: 3616
Threads: 361
Registered: September 3rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: West of Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 22nd, 2005 at 07:34 PM |
|
|
My suggestion would be to take it to someone who knows what they are doing...
CBB at Penrith do a lot of work with Microtech and then they can tune it on the dyno in about half the time and 100% better than any other method.
CBB
02 4722 9313
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on January 22nd, 2005 at 11:19 PM |
|
|
there are two options with the EFI cars, use the factory ECU and be able to just put it together and go, no probs.
Or run an aftermarket ECU and get it dyno tuned by someone who is competent at tuning those motors with that ECU. There is no short-cuts, only
long-cuts.
|
|
|
seagull
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4979
Threads: 752
Registered: December 25th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: PerthWA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2005 at 12:00 AM |
|
|
I know the problem
you need this MATT !
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
|
|
|
Desert Moose
A.k.a.: Chris Hill
Veteran Volks Folk
Cut Cut Cut
Posts: 2098
Threads: 175
Registered: March 4th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth W.A.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Black
Mood: I don't know if I'm indecisive
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2005 at 12:16 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by seagull
you need this MATT !
|
been up doing a bit of brain washing have we.....
|
|
|
seagull
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4979
Threads: 752
Registered: December 25th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: PerthWA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2005 at 12:28 AM |
|
|
yes and it works Chris
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
|
|
|
subaruboxer
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 292
Threads: 20
Registered: January 1st, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: North Germany
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2005 at 02:27 AM |
|
|
Hi Matt,
the problem could be the wiring. Did you shorten the wiring or left you all the connectors untouched. If you shortend the wiring the cause could be a
wrong diagram. I found two errors in the subaru workshop manual. One causes incorrect temp readings. But maybe only the German version is wrong.
Jörg
[Edited on 22-1-2005 by subaruboxer]
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2005 at 11:04 AM |
|
|
What are you using for the temp sender? a subaru one, or a microtech one? If your using a subaru one, maybe your using the sender for the temp gauge
not the ecu temp sender, what resistance is it putting out at room temp?
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2005 at 05:37 PM |
|
|
Correct me if i'm wrong...there is a temp sender and a temp sender switch. The switch is the one that we replaced which has the injector style
plug.....the other looks like an oil pressure switch with a spade terminal. When we changed it there was no coolant in that part of the motor as we
were still bleeding the system. Maybe I should take it out and stick it in some coolant to see if the reading is any different. Thats if the system
hasnt bled out that part yet.
We have tried reversing the wires with no change yet.
As soon as we work out these few little hurdles I will be taking it to be tuned properly on the dyno....you are all correct!
Matt
|
|
|
subaruboxer
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 292
Threads: 20
Registered: January 1st, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: North Germany
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2005 at 10:57 PM |
|
|
Hi Matt,
I think there are two possible causes for your Temp problem:
1. your gauge is installed wrong
2. your sending unit is faulty
Temperature gauge installation:
a. a 21 red/green wire to the ground plug of the gauge, no ground connection of the gauge to the chassis. And to the watertemperature sensor.
b.white/green wire from thermometer on the engine to the gauge (pick-up plug).
c. plus wire to the gauge(plus plug)
If all this is correct your sending unit is faulty.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by boof2332
Correct me if i'm wrong...there is a temp sender and a temp sender switch. The switch is the one that we replaced which has the injector style
plug.....the other looks like an oil pressure switch with a spade terminal. When we changed it there was no coolant in that part of the motor as we
were still bleeding the system. Maybe I should take it out and stick it in some coolant to see if the reading is any different. Thats if the system
hasnt bled out that part yet.
We have tried reversing the wires with no change yet.
As soon as we work out these few little hurdles I will be taking it to be tuned properly on the dyno....you are all correct!
Matt
|
|
|
|
subaruboxer
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 292
Threads: 20
Registered: January 1st, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: North Germany
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 23rd, 2005 at 11:26 PM |
|
|
Please note if your gauge got a metal body and you bolt it to the dashboard with a metal holder you got a ground connection to the chassis.
[Edited on 23-1-2005 by subaruboxer]
|
|
|
subaruboxer
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 292
Threads: 20
Registered: January 1st, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: North Germany
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 24th, 2005 at 05:33 AM |
|
|
To get your engine to idle try this:
a. as you mentioned it feels like running on 3 cylinders, check spark plug wires and spark plugs for correct gap
b. check for a leak in the fuel injection system, in the intake manifold, in the vacuum hoses and the airfilter
c. last weekend I checked the bug of a friend with EJ 22 and an idle problem, it would run but only if you would hold the revs up or it would stall. A
big part for idle is taken by the bypass aircontroll valve. His wiring was shortend and I don t know about yours. Two wires from the bypass
aircontroll valve are connected to the ecu. One black an one white on the valve side, black/blue and white/blue at the ecu. They change colours. If
you don´ t look close you could think its black to black and white to white. But that was his error.
The correct connection is: white to black/blue and
black to white/black
We changed the two wires and it idles perfect now!
Maybe the colours are different for Australia?
| Quote: | Originally posted by boof2332
Hi all,
We have got the car running although there are a few problems.
The temp switch is reading 124 degrees as soon as we switch on the computer. It is new and the ecu was tested by microtech this week. This input
maxing out seems to not enable us to tune the car from the unit.
It will not idle. There was a leak when we first got it running at the idle up motor...it was idling at 1500rpm. Since that has been corrected it will
stall.
It also feels as though it is running on 3 cylinders and has massive hessitation before roughly responding to throttle.
We are slowly trying to eliminate the possibles one by one....although there is no way I know even 30% of the possibles, so any help will be really
appreciated.
Matt
[Edited on 22-1-2005 by boof2332]
|
[Edited on 23-1-2005 by subaruboxer]
|
|
|
Jenny
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 352
Threads: 20
Registered: June 26th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane south
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Is it Friday yet?
|
| posted on January 24th, 2005 at 06:38 AM |
|
|
Matt,
It could actually be getting that hot if the heater hoses have been blanked off. The heater inlet/outlet pipes need to be connected together on the
Subaru motor, even if you aren't using a heater. Probably not your problem, but worth checking anyway.
I'd say go to a Microtech/Subaru guru as the guys suggested above, but it may be worth posting a query to the guy you bought the ECU from or even
Microtech themselves.
|
|
|
pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
23 Windows of Awesome
Posts: 6828
Threads: 389
Registered: January 15th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Nth Nth StMarys, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro White
Mood: upgrades = jackstands
|
| posted on January 24th, 2005 at 09:03 AM |
|
|
Hi Matt,
sorry you're having so much hassle. if you're still struggling give me a U2U and I'll give you the number of Anthony Brodski, he's a subbie
conversion guru, the electricals are his speciality. If he can't help you with the mircrotech, then the Rigoli Boys at Hoxton Pk would be my next
call.
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 24th, 2005 at 05:38 PM |
|
|
Problem may have been solved regarding the idle and missfire..... seems that the microtech was from a later wrx which has 2 coil pacs not 4. Thus we
might be only on 2 cylinders. Will know in a couple of hours when I get over to the car.
Will keep you posted regarding the water temp switch problem.
Matt
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 24th, 2005 at 05:48 PM |
|
|
Oh,
Jenny- the heater hoses are not blocked off they are joined together.
Pete- Thanks for the offer, if you have a u2u at 12.30 tonight you will know that we have had no sucess.
Subaruboxer- We are running a microtech lt8, so at the moment we havnt got the single sender hooked up to the gauge...it is the switch that tells the
microtech (also a sender) that we have replaced and will check again tonight. The idle up motor was where we had our first leak..that is fixed.....I
am sure that there might be another small leak somewhere...I will check all plugs etc again tonight...thanks for your help...fingers crossed!
Matt
|
|
|
waltermitty
Custom Title Time!
Legend when my beer goggles are on
Posts: 1993
Threads: 268
Registered: August 29th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Port Macquarie now Yipee!
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Grey
Mood: Hungry for mor
|
| posted on January 24th, 2005 at 06:32 PM |
|
|
Go Mattie,Go you good thing.
Mitcl
23 windows ...8 too many!
|
|
|
ratbug
A.k.a.: Andrew Todd
Wolfsburg Wizard
aka toddy101
Posts: 439
Threads: 30
Registered: January 14th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Newcastle
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 24th, 2005 at 08:32 PM |
|
|
Just had a look the manual.. There should be 2 variable resistance temperature senders.. they're not switches but people can still refer to them as
switches. The temp sender for the ecu should have a resistance of about 2-3.3kOhms @ 20degC, and 270-370Ohms; @ 80degC.
The temp sender for the gauge is heaps different, its something like 100-200Ohms cold and 10Ohms hot... So yeah, if you have these mixed up, you could
be feeding 200Ohms to the ecu when its cold which would make it think its above 80degC.
[Edited on 24-1-2005 by ratbug]
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 25th, 2005 at 12:12 AM |
|
|
Thanks ratbug...I will check it tomorrow.
As for the missfire and inability to idle...it has become aparent that the ignition module is rooted!
Anyone have one????
I will try and get one tomorrow and tomorrow night we will try again..at least we know this problem.
Thanks for all your help guys.
Matt
|
|
|
seagull
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4979
Threads: 752
Registered: December 25th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: PerthWA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 25th, 2005 at 12:19 AM |
|
|
I wonder how many $ new matt , seagull
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
|
|
|
subaruboxer
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 292
Threads: 20
Registered: January 1st, 2005
Member Is Offline
Location: North Germany
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 25th, 2005 at 06:42 AM |
|
|
Hi Matt,
when I got my wiring fixed and I turned the the ignition on the watertemperature gauge would show a temp of 125 degrees. The engine wasn t running,
I changed the way the gauge was wired. And everything is fine since then. I hope yout get it running right pretty soon. Good luck Matt!!| Quote: | Originally
posted by boof2332
Oh,
Jenny- the heater hoses are not blocked off they are joined together.
Pete- Thanks for the offer, if you have a u2u at 12.30 tonight you will know that we have had no sucess.
Subaruboxer- We are running a microtech lt8, so at the moment we havnt got the single sender hooked up to the gauge...it is the switch that tells the
microtech (also a sender) that we have replaced and will check again tonight. The idle up motor was where we had our first leak..that is fixed.....I
am sure that there might be another small leak somewhere...I will check all plugs etc again tonight...thanks for your help...fingers crossed!
Matt
|
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 26th, 2005 at 07:25 PM |
|
|
Paul picked me up a module from SSS where we got the motors for $50...checks out O.K on the Multimeter.
Fingers crossed tomorrow.
Once that is solved I will try reversing the water temp sensor.
Matt
|
|
|
Brad
Wolfsburg Elder
Posts: 3764
Threads: 332
Registered: August 24th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SE QLD, Mt Nebo
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Manx Buggy Building
|
| posted on January 27th, 2005 at 08:05 AM |
|
|
I would also bleed up your system to help with the temp sender issue. The other thing you may want to check if you get no joy with the other areas is
the timing belt. I have an EJ22 in the shop currently which amoung other issues such as air flow meter backwards, breather lines blocked off, etc had
the belt out by two teeth on one cam. Still run, just did it like a bag. From what I have been told though the EJ20 will break stuff it is more than 3
teeth out so this may not be your problem.
What guage are you running ? The VDO guage will not work properly with the Subaru sender.
I am constantly amazed at how mucg abuse these damn subaru's take to stop them running completely.
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 27th, 2005 at 09:19 PM |
|
|
The bleeding issue was our main concern regarding the temp reading as when we changed it there was no coolant in that part of the motor. We did change
the timing belt , so I will check that too.....thanks.
All these things will hopefully be sorted tomorrow night when we try once again to get it running properly.
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 29th, 2005 at 12:15 AM |
|
|
Figure this one out.....
When we first wired up the ecu, the pumps were being earthed even when the computer was off... Thought there was a bad earth in computer ...got it
checked and they said o.k. We kept earth to pumps from the computer, just ran and ignition trigger to the relay.......
Tonight I chop the wire to the pumps and earth them to the battery..........and the temp sender goes back to normal range.
The ignition is still playing up although we found an earth shorting out to #3.
Either needs total replacement and starting over, the computer is stuffed or I have the wrong pin diagram for the upgraded software...thats why it
tested O.K at Microtech.
Thoughts,
Matt is getting frustrated.
|
|
|
seagull
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4979
Threads: 752
Registered: December 25th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: PerthWA
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 29th, 2005 at 12:22 AM |
|
|
did you ask Microtech if the diagram is correct for the upgrade matt ?
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 29th, 2005 at 01:38 AM |
|
|
Got the computer second hand, so who knows what goes where....will ask them to tell me when I take it back on monday...they said it was fine last
week.
Matt
If it is screwed shall I get another New microtech or try something different?????Prices???
|
|
|
subawee
Learner Dubber
Posts: 15
Threads: 3
Registered: November 24th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Utah-U.S.A.
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on January 29th, 2005 at 05:35 AM |
|
|
Hi Matt,
I'm sorry your having problems. I used an ecu called "link" it's an OZ based company although I bought mine here in the States from one of their
dealers. It was a great value and I could be more happy with its performance. I had a problem with my ICS when I fist hooked up the ecu and Link
helped me figure out what was going on. Anyway Here's a link and I hope this helps you out.http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/link.htm Hope you
don't end up parting with the cash for a new ecu.
Good luck!
Bob
|
|
|
boof2332
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1210
Threads: 120
Registered: May 10th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: Beecroft Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Sympathetic
|
| posted on January 29th, 2005 at 10:40 PM |
|
|
Thanks Bob,
I am ripping out all the wiring and starting from scratch tomorrow...would have been easier in the first place looking at it now!
If there are still problems then the ECU could be stuffed in which case I will be searching for an alternative.
Matt
|
|
|
