| [ Total Views: 789 | Total Replies: 6 | Thread Id: 3634 ] |
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 micbec
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| posted on February 8th, 2003 at 12:40 PM |
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5 Speed Beetle?
Hi all,
We own a 65 Beetle, when we bought it, it was all original, we have since fixed her up and dropped a 1600 in, in the place of the 1200.
The gearbox is the only thing on the car that is in need of serious attention, it jumps out of gear all the time and is generally very unpleasant to
drive.
We are interested in the idea of putting a 5 speed gearbox in. I have read a few posts about different types of gearboxes, i.e. porche, but they
might be out of our price range.
Is there anybody who can give me some advice on what type of gearboxes (5 speed) will fit with the minimal amount of fuss and/or a contact in the
Brisbane region who could help us out.
Many thanks 
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 Bizarre
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| posted on February 8th, 2003 at 01:36 PM |
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Nah,,,,,,
The only other option that i know og is the Gene Berg kit.
Just not worth the $$$.....and you thought the Porsche was dear............
IF you really want one then the Porsche 901 conversion is the go.
Personally i would put the $$ towards an IRS conversion and put a rebuilt IRS box in - may be with some reselected gearing out of a 1300 may be.
Barry
Futue te ipsum!!!
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micbec
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| posted on February 8th, 2003 at 02:06 PM |
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OK, what is an IRS conversion and what is involved?
Mick
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555bug
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| posted on February 8th, 2003 at 04:59 PM |
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yup I totally agree with Barry on this, for say 800 you could have an irs rear end put in with a nice late model single side plate box and new mounts.
A porsche, renault etc.. conversion is going to run at least 2000 minium. Perhaps if you had a 12:1 type 4 with 220hp a 5 speed would make sence but
I'd just make life easy. Take a drive down to custom offroad and talk to Pete and he will sort you out. |
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Woozy
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| posted on February 8th, 2003 at 05:47 PM |
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What about the kit from the eastern states......
its like the berg kit but a bit cheaper, somone posted about it a while ago.
Dunno how much tho.
In any case a beetle dosen't need 5 speed's unless you plan on gettign LOTS more power and tdrivign faster than you are allowed anyway
:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce:bounce
Everyone needs something to belive in !
I belive i shall have a beer !
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Bizarre
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| posted on February 8th, 2003 at 07:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by micbec
OK, what is an IRS conversion and what is involved?
Mick
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Mick
older beetles had what is called swing axle. I think from about 1970 semi autos all Super beetles and the last of the standards (1976) had IRS-
independent rear suspension.
Sort of like Holdens with there "live" rear axle V's IRS.
Basically the swing axle only has one universal off the transaxle V's the IRS which has 2. The IRS will keep the rear wheel at 90 degrees to the
road much better than a swing axle.
Early beetles had king pin front end with torsion bar suspension and swing axle rear
Supers had IRS and McPhersion Struts
To the standard lovers the ball joint front end, with torsion bar suspension and IRS id the best.
Personally i love late model lowered McPhersion struts and IRS
To each his own.
Get you bug handling proper and you dont need no 5 speed fang dangle geary thing. Swing axle aint good for throwing into an S bend. You might end up
looking at the world from a whole different perspective - upside down!
You can just cut IRS into you early bug - but look around and get yourself either a semi auto pan and convert it to manual or a 1976 pan and enjoy the
benefits if ball joint front end and IRS.
Then again you could sell it and buy a Super and find out what REAL handling is about.
Hmmm ....... i have a heat shield and a flame proof suit. Do you think i have enough protection???? 
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Che Castro
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| posted on February 8th, 2003 at 10:23 PM |
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lol! real handling with a built in steering wheel vibrating feature when you hit 50mph
Nah struts are cool, and u get a proper boot! In fact i secretly wanna get an S bug or L bug later on and do it up with 17" fuchs and a big
motor and race it
I'm currently doing an IRS conversion. Its probably easier and better to just swap the entire floorpan instead of cutting and welding in the
rear end. Welding in the rear end requires jigs and hours of just aligning the damn things up. Swapping a pan is less of a hassle, even though it
takes more time.
If you swap floorpans entirely you also can get a balljoint front end, Disc brakes up front etc. And while you have the body off your old pan you
can patch up any rust or get it resprayed entirely or whatever.
Swing axles are actually independant as well, although they suck pretty much compared to what people usually call IRS. Its actually a semi-trailing
arm design, which was used on a lot of porsches, and is also used on the IRS commodores. Its a bit old by today's standards but a modified IRS
beetle handles absolutely brilliantly, it can corner like its on rails and be predictable and stable (especially in crosswinds).
Right now i am rebuilding a 69 Semi-auto pan. I will be swapping my 63 body onto it sometime soon The semi auto pans just need a clutch cable tube welded in, as well as a manual tranny,and a pedal cluster.
Try to get an early pan since the VIN of your car is taken from the floorpan, i.e. when i swap my 63 body onto the 69 pan, it is effectively a 69 by
law. I think in 1972 or something there were a couple of laws passed regarding ADRs, they became a lot stricter sometime in the 70s, things like
emissions and crap will be tested.
Don't bother with the 5 speed, although it would be nice to have 5 speeds, its way too expensive and too much of a hassle to do. And besides if
your engine has a good spread of torque the 4 speed is fine (the stock engine is perfectly matched to the gearbox as you would expect).
The only reason you would really want a 5 speed is if you are really really rich and you want to run really close ratios (to stay in the right
powerband when you are racing) and still be able to cruise on the highway at normal RPM. 5 speed conversions usually make the extra gear slot in
between 3 and 4 i think. So really your old 4th = new 5th. And i think the 5th gearshift is really bodge as well, its not a conventional
pattern.
heh, if you had a hot Type 4, i dont even think you would need 1st gear!
[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Che Castro]
Jon
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OvalGlen
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| posted on February 9th, 2003 at 10:23 AM |
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Yes there is an Aussie 5 speed Macca in Flat Four has one. Quite expensive.
I think Dave Becker has more info (or was it ...........)
You can get a latter model geabox (typically IRS) with much higher 4th Gear
and if highway cruising is your concern , then this is fine.
Especially with fairly large profile rear tyres. Mine are 205 / 70 / 15 inch.
even though my1500 type gearbox is not the higher gearing, the large diameter drops the revs enough
to be comfortable.. 3300 rpm at 110 km
Regards,Glenn>
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OvalGlen
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| posted on February 9th, 2003 at 10:31 AM |
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I have " swing axles ", with sway bars , good shocks and some Anti tuck system on the rear.I find that it handles fine.
My only concern is that the rear changes camber when you encounter a bump mid corner and this tends to throw your cornering line.
Some find this Fun , its a bit like throwing the cars rear end out and controlling the over steer. Requires small steering adjustment as you
corner.
Mind you this is when you are driving HARD ! (way too fast )
Regards,Glenn>
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Bizarre
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| posted on February 9th, 2003 at 10:59 AM |
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Glen
without being callous i think that is why "Herbie down under" ended up on his roof. He hit a bump half way round a corner on the track and
flipped it.
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Che Castro
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| posted on February 9th, 2003 at 12:16 PM |
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well i find with my stock swing axle, it cant track very well over bumpy roads, u can hear it skid a bit if u accelerate over lots of bumps and
stuff... and it aint going no where!
Jon
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