| [ Total Views: 980 | Total Replies: 26 | Thread Id: 3888 ] |
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 Robo
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 09:06 AM |
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Overseas Bleeding
It is a shame to see another part of our VW history disappearing overseas, our buyers can't compete with the prices that they are prepared to pay
in the US, UK, and Japan, it looks like the honeymoon is over, once a certain price is payed it sets a precedent for the next sale price, upping the
bar higher and higher, I have seen the evidence of this in the motorcycle world, the Triumph Bonneville 1960's pre unit models are a point in
case, they are not what you would call rare by any means, and are a maintanance intensive motorcycle, but because of a few cashed up buyers with money
to burn paying ridiculous prices, they are now around the $ 10-15.000, mark, not bad considering when they were ten years old you could get one for a
carton of beer!
It looks like this is starting to happen to the VW world as well, we are lucky in this country that we have a strong VW history, we have some exotic
models and a lot of good cars because we are lucky to have a good climate, as far as the weather is concerned, we dont have snow in winter negating
the need for salting of our roads, saving our vehicals the effects this has on the bodywork, (rust) have a look at the availability of panels in the
UK, you could build a Kombi out of replacement panels! hence they are starved of good vehicals and are willing to pay top dollar.
I recently enquired about a 58 beettle with a blown motor that had a sale price of $1100, I got a Email back saying it was going to the UK, I was too
slow!
I hope the people who have these wonderfull and rare VW's resist the temptation of making a good profit for their resto work and keep them in
this country for us to enjoy, I hope they figure that it would be a better investment than the dismal super annuation scheme's we have at the
moment, I am sure the cars and vans would much rather stay here in sunny Australia
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5PL1TDCS10N
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 11:39 AM |
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This topic has come up before. I know that alot of Vw's are getting shipped overseas as there is big $$$ to be made. Hopefully there will be a
glut in the market over there soon and it won't be economically viable to import them.
At the end of the day I must say that we Aussies must except that VW's are worth a hell of alot more now days then we think and the prices need
to go up accordingly. Get over the days of "I bought it for $50..." and "Swaped it for a carton"!!
I guess the positive side to this is the people that are holding on to their Dubz. Their vehicles will be more valuable in the long term and will
command a higher price.
In saying this though If one was selling a VW for a decent price and noone here in Australia was interested. Would you not sell it to someone from
the UK that had the cash If you were desperate to sell?
(!)
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Spook
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 02:31 PM |
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The reason prices hyave gone through the roof is because of one word you have used Robo.
"RARE"
There are a handfull of rare production Volkswagens. Country buggies, Type 3 Karmans, things like that.
Then there are the special orders.
Neither Beetles or kombis fall into the rare catagory, & are never likely to.
If you really want to get on my tits, refer to a beetle as rare. They are the worlds most mass produced car for f#cks sake. There would have to be
some monumental scrapping done for them to become rare.
You can still get them for a cold slab, you just got to know where to look....
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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volma1
A.k.a.: Greg Cash
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 03:36 PM |
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Overseas bleeding
Try buying a 21 or 23 split window deluxe anytime if they are that common. Less of these in Aust than type3 KGs and country buggies. Find a yardfull
and let this forum know about it, don't like your chances finding one for sale under $30000 in good nick. volma1
They are still there, just have faith you'll find one.
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Spook
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 04:04 PM |
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Where they built here, or mass imported here, or where they private imports to start with?
But you got no chance of me paying 30 grand to start with. It is, after all, just a kombi.
[Edited on 21-2-2003 by Spook]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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Phil74Camper
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 04:51 PM |
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Microbus Deluxes (or 'Alpines', to use the Australian term) were made in Melbourne, but not in very high numbers. The overwhelming majority
of Type 2s sold here were workhorses. Vans with or without windows, cardboard trim, easy to convert for people if necessary but bought for carrying
loads. That's why there aren't that many left now - most of them have just worn out after a long working life.
The US was different. Their federal laws stopped VW importing the 'workhorse' versions of the Type 2. That's why they had to try to
sell the Microbus, which came under a different classification. Thus there are many more of the so-called 21 or 23 window Kombis over there.
But yes I agree with Spook, you would only spend that on a pre '67 Kombi if you REALLY wanted one. And the old saying was that the only people
who want a pre '67 Kombi are those who haven't driven one!
Late '70s Kombis are roomier, faster, cheaper and easier to find. And they're cool too - most people take a while to find that out.
[Edited on 21-2-2003 by Phil74Camper]
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jenz58
Scirocco Rare
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 04:58 PM |
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So how many do people think have gone overseas? Time frame it a little for us/me if you can
Do most of the sellers of these VW's know the grief it causes Aussie Vee Dubbers or have they just been driving them or storing them not
realising what they have?
This seems to be a hot topic of discussion, and one that does keep popping up |
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Spook
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 06:35 PM |
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With the split screen kombis, things are a little different.
They haven't been stored so much as dumped down the back.
The introduction of the bay kombi in 68 spelled the end of the split screen.
The bay is far superior as it was meant to be.
People upgraded & by the end of the 70's you couldn't give a splitty away.
Even wreckers wouldn't take them off your hands, so they were either crushed or dumped.
My 57 bus came out of a hayshed where it had languished for 20 years.
Not stored or hoarded, just parked.
If I hadn't found it, someone else would have.........
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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lardo
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 06:54 PM |
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I'snt it time us common people started putting our hands in our pockets and try & keep this stuff here instead of complaining. Invest a few
bucks now and consider it your super in a few years to come, classics if bought wisely are better than bank interest.
Cheers:beer
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splitbusaustralia
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 07:26 PM |
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Well,
I think there's a bunch of Aussies
who complain about stuff going
overseas but, on the other hand, would not be willing to
pay even close to 'world market value' on these
vehicles.
Fine if your a buyer, sucks if your
a seller with 20 grand in materials alone in yer
early splitbus and the local market says
yer crazy to pay anything over $8K....
I'm actually beginning to think that selling these vehicles for a reasonable amount of money
close to 'world market price'
is in fact the only way to save them.....If you pay $500 for an oval or an early splitbus
its simply not enough to guarantee its
survival is it?
I KNOW there's people here buying and wrecking vehicles that would be restored if they were OS.......what's regarded as 'too far
gone' and parted out here would be restored in other countries.....
I dunno........I'm beginning to think a rarer/early Oz vehicle may be better off OS than sold too cheap here...
OK - bash me now!
RobK
http://www.splitbusaustralia.com
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vdbleu2002
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 07:47 PM |
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With the information super highway that we all enjoy here plus a global appreciation of all things VW makes the world a lot smaller place than it used
to be. Do you remember your VW hobbie pre internet??
Selling / Buying stuff OS is easier today than it ever was............
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 09:02 PM |
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Beetles are getting Rarer by the month.... Many are being Crushed at Wreckers are just left to rot away somewhere.... There are NOT many good ones to
be found in Haysheds etc.... those days are over... Most Farms have changed hands over the years and any old beetles have been crushed & buried
using Dozers... To many people , the beetle has had its day... there is even a new kid on the block [New Beetle] so why wouldn't people think
that the older Beetles are now obsolete and not wanted. Yes SPOOK - Our RHD Beetles are getting RARE.... You can put Your head in the sand and say No
they aren't all day!!! It won't change that BEETLES are getting RARE !!!! Don't forget that the Majority of Beetles were sold in OTHER
countries.... mainly North America... Have a nice Weekend Spook. | Quote: | Originally posted by Spook
The reason prices hyave gone through the roof is because of one word you have used Robo. "RARE"
Neither Beetles or kombis fall into the rare catagory, & are never likely to.
If you really want to get on my ***, refer to a beetle as rare. They are the worlds most mass produced car . There would have to be some monumental
scrapping done for them to become rare.
"What do You think is happening every week...."
You can still get them for a cold slab, you just got to know where to look....
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puke
[Edited on 22-2-2003 by 68AutoBug]
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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jenz58
Scirocco Rare
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 09:37 PM |
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Lee
Hey people luv old beetles:kiss and you see it when you drive around in one they just don't want to put the effort into keeping one running one
themselves. It's up to people like us to keep it happening, keep the legend alive:sandrine
Down here in Melbourne I see so many old VW's on the road and driven by people not into clubs just into their cars. It's there and happening
but I think there are only so many of us enthusiasts to keep flying the flag.
If a VW goes to the wreckers for crushing then the owner didn't know how to sell it, didn't know it's worth, or maybe it was plain
ready for crushing. There are those graveyards in Coldstream and Barnawatha that VW enthusiasts are not interested in. Maybe some do reach a used by
date? Also often an owner sees themselves as sitting on a gold mine when they are not, or won't sell parts when the body is useless
An endless debate
That van was brilliant but no one here saw themselves as restoring it. It did need a lot of work and commitment. Someone from overseas took that
on |
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 vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 09:45 PM |
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[fixed]
[Edited on 22-2-2003 by vanderaj]
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vanderaj
A.k.a.: Andrew van der Stock
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| posted on February 21st, 2003 at 09:51 PM |
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My two cents
Although it's sad that the VW's that leave our shores do so, at least
a) they're going to a good home
b) they will be restored or if already restored, cherished and shown at shows
c) they will give someone else who loves VW's joy
It's not our fault that our currency is so pathetic or we undervalue our cars so badly compared to the rest of the world.
I'd rather see my 1970 Fasty restored somewhere else and loved than wrecked.
I was selling my car to a bloke in Canberra. I probably would never have seen it again and he wanted it for a daily driver. It probably would have
been driven into the ground and then scrapped for metal as few wreckers take our cars any longer.
Given a choice like that again I would sell my fasty in a trice to a US or British collector than to a guy in Canberra.
Andrew
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Spook
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| posted on February 22nd, 2003 at 03:16 AM |
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Ahh, once again the insult from 150 klm away.....
Yes, farms change hands, but they have a clearing sale. I've got a couple from those.
But, if they are so "rare", how do this mob that are exporting them get hold of them?
There is a difference between not being able to find something & not looking.
OK Lee, there is a 63 beetle in a paddock not 5 miles from Scone, body on a trailer & running gear next to it.
What colour is it??
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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 kombi_kid
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| posted on February 22nd, 2003 at 10:48 AM |
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theres no point in crying about it doesnt do anything for it except in this post making enemies!!!!
the UK go to all lenghts in restoring them so i reacon its good there leaving here to get restored and keep the legend alive for another 20
years!!!!
but the proice of them is high in the world market and australians arnt willing to pay it so we suffer!!!!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on February 22nd, 2003 at 02:56 PM |
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VWs going overseas **
[size=4]Old VWs need love and attention and a lot of it.... When You See at what Lengths they go to in the UK to fix up a VW... It costs them a
fortune to restore a VW .... they restore them when We think there isn't enough Car there to restore.. So every VW that ends up in the UK will be
treasured.... and isn't that What We ALL want - after all...[/size] There are NOT enough of US to restore and keep every Air Cooled VW in
Australia in good order... I wish there were.... but there just are not enough of US.... and an old VW sitting out in the weather - DOESN'T stay
in good condition .... I hate seeing VWs sitting under trees or in Paddocks etc
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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5PL1TDCS10N
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| posted on February 22nd, 2003 at 03:21 PM |
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I guess we are all guilty of missing the bigger picture here...It does'nt really matter who buys them, just as long as they are looked after or
restored.
We don't live forever but VW's can!
W(!)
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Spook
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| posted on February 22nd, 2003 at 06:42 PM |
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Yeah, that's what I thought.....
There are still plenty around IF you look.
Get off the bitumen roads now & then.
Look into peoples yards & if you see one, go & ask, the worst that can happen is it's not for sale.
Even if you don't see one, but there is a heap of cars in a paddock, ask.
I found a kombi that the cocky had forgotten was there.
But don't try to tell me we are gunna run out.
[Edited on 22-2-2003 by Spook]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
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Menangler
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| posted on February 22nd, 2003 at 09:07 PM |
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Rob well said, Air cooled VWs in Australia are being sold too cheaply to ensure there survival.
Lets see you can still get a nice example for around 2-3 grand, a person (not an enthusiast) buys it for daily transport thinking it looks cool,
Drills the dash for a big sterio, sticks the speakers in the mint door trims, paints hippy crap all over it, rips the headliner trying to put the surf
board in it, never cleans it, has it for 6 months or so and works out that its noiser, slower, needs more maintenance or whatever, than the Jap crap
car they used to own, wont spend any money on it and runs it into the ground. then sells it again. Next owner does the same again blah blah, till it
gets driven or towed to the wrecking yard, stuffed. This is how it goes, I have a back yard full of them.
I am now hesitant to sell a nice car to people who just want a cheap driver or a "first car for my daughter", I think now an air cooled VW
is a car for the enthusiast, if you want a driver by a Corolla.
The world is getting smaller, we should realise that we have to compete on a global VW market, hell we have to buy all our hottie aftermarket parts
from the US and we all know how expensive that is. Cars are fast becoming the same.
There is'nt much we can do about this, other than buy all the nice ones and put them away for the future, and still no one gets to see them!!
FAHRVERGNUGEN;
Description of a pleasurable sensation,
Experienced when a car and it's driver are in mutual harmony, A unique driving experience, Pleasure, Satisfaction,
A feeling experienced by Volkswagen Drivers.
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Ghia
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| posted on February 22nd, 2003 at 11:39 PM |
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Can I just clarify one thing.
It's not so much that we (in the UK) are prepared to pay so much more...
It's (and I don't mean this to sound nasty or disrepectful) that your econony is worth so much less than ours that things are just insanely
cheap for us.
You sell vans for less than a (cheap) mountain bike.
My weekly food shop costs twice the price of some of the vans I've seen for sale.
I've seen decent Bays go over there for less then two weeks of petrol or a replacement door.
Our economy is screwed for export but booming for import... I guess you are the opposite.
But don't forget. check your Vw production figures, you had so so so many vans and old bugs, you had more than ever country in the world except
Germany & US. In one year in the 60s you had more than we in the UK had in the whole decade.
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Ghia
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| posted on February 22nd, 2003 at 11:56 PM |
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Having just read in more detail, I'm glad to see most of you are cool (ish) about vans coming here to the UK.
I have a Viking Bay camper (1974) in my garage which cost me the equivalent of 1400 of your dollars. It has no interiour, some windows are smashed,
cats have been living in it, every panel needs repairing, all outriggers need doing, most of the floor is rotten, the seats are shredded etc. So far
has taken me 18 weeks to get even half way decent. When roadworthy I'll sell it on to be finnished by someone else.
My next project is lined up, it's a '71 Karmann Beetle, with no roof, no wings, no seats etc, it's been standing outside and at the
moment the asking price is same as 2000 of you dollars and that is really a bargain for me.
peace, love and bugs to the VW worldwide massive
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Robo
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
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| posted on February 23rd, 2003 at 08:55 AM |
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Bleeding
It looks like I have re-opened a can of worms, quite stnky ones by the look of it!
The comments I made were in no way ment to be insultsulting or directected to people from other nations. don't get me wrong, If they are lucky
enough and wish to pay the asked for price, good luck to them!
I am quite sure that the enthusiests from these countries, would love and restore the vehicals they purchase from our shores.
My point is based on this market observation, which I am sure our UK friends would be well aware of, Triumph motorcycles were manufactured in the
UK, VW originated from Germany.
It is much easier to source exotic models and parts for the vintage and classic Triumph M/C, In the USA, mainly because there was a huge dealer
network, and the large number of bikes shipped there, the English now have to re-import this stock back to their country.
This is also happening to the Americans as far as Trans Am's, Mustangs, Bell Aire's, Customlines Ect Ect, obviously there are lots of
them over there, but we have some of the hard to get stuff, they are actually sourcing cars and parts off us, Detroit Iron, from here!
I have been active in sourcing parts for classic BMW motorcycles, I once contacted the factory, which has a division that remanufactures old
parts, to enquire about a rear fender badge for an R50s, the parts man had no knowladge of the existance of this model, and had to access the archives
to verify its existance! this is not a one off occurance, it has happened more than once! Australia recieved some very exotic machinery, things the
Germans have rarely seen!
I have seen similaritys with the VW marque, here in Australia, we were lucky to recieve good numbers of vehicals, some no other country has. but
this will not last forever, it's like the old saying, Once it is gone, it is gone. and when the money is spent, what do you have left, unless you
spend it on another VW resto. and what if you ever decide you would like it or another like it, back, are you prepared to pay 2-3 times the price you
sold it for, you have to take this into consideration, especially if it goes overseas, if you cant restore it, because of various reasons, and some
one from overseas wants to buy it and restore it, then sure, it is better to let it go than to let it rot here, I do not argue with that opinion.
All I am saying is, Keep it if you possibly can, they appreciate better than most investments.
I sold a 65 beetle, years ago, and have regretted it ever after, I learnt a lesson from this and plenty of times I have been down on money, but I
will never sell my Kombi or BMW, I just fin other ways, starve, grovel, beg. I wish I got a dollar for the amount of times I have heard these words,
Gee I had one of those once, I wish I still had it!
Rob..... |
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Grey 57
A.k.a.: Dean
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| posted on February 23rd, 2003 at 09:34 AM |
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The greatest culprit (or best friend depending on your point of view) in all this the internet. The spread of the WWW has shrunk the world by an
incredible amount. Far more so than Air Travel or anything else before it.
We all can easily look into the markets of other countrys and they can do the same to us. The value for money that others see from outside is not
always apparent to us on the inside. Add in currency imbalances and before you know it things (VW's in this case) start to become rare
commodities. Laws of supply and demand will eventually push up prices and the export trend will slow.
I agree with a couple of the points made re these cars going to a place were they will be fully restored and cared for.
But I'm also sure that more than 1 or 2 will be exported for parts or stripped of parts here to re-sell for commercial gain and end up in the
crusher anyway. Dont like it but thats life.
Good news is that currencys always go full circle. Less than 20years ago the US currency was worth less than a Aussie $.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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Registered: August 31st, 2002
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Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
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| posted on February 23rd, 2003 at 11:13 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Spook
Ahh, once again the insult from 150 klm away.....
Yes, farms change hands, but they have a clearing sale. I've got a couple from those.
But, if they are so "rare", how do this mob that are exporting them get hold of them?]
I don't know what colour the car is But My Son Scott does.... He knows where just about everything is... He just missed out on a split window
Kombi last week went for $100... in fairly good condition...
I am not a looker Spook,, I have My Beetle and I'm happy... You only have to look in the trading post or Unique cars etc to find them.... or on
Aussie Vee Dubbers... I can remember when every 3rd or 4th car on our roads were VW Beetles.... the good old days... and You could buy a fan belt for
one anywhere... Beetles aren't as rare as Hillman Imps or Goggomobiles or Morris Minors but their numbers are dwindling fast... Time.. IS taking
its toll....
There is a difference between not being able to find something & not looking.
OK Lee, there is a 63 beetle in a paddock not 5 miles from Scone, body on a trailer & running gear next to it.
What colour is it??
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:o:o:bounce
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Robo
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
Posts: 4491
Threads: 120
Registered: February 13th, 2003
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Location: Tweed Heads
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Mood: Oval madness
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 posted on February 23rd, 2003 at 11:40 AM |
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I spose we will all have to get better jobs, and bigger pay packets! then again I may just go for a country cruise! :thumb |
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whatnow
A.k.a.: Henry
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1000
Threads: 54
Registered: January 11th, 2003
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Location: armidale, northern tablelands NSW
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Mood: 14's are the new earlies.
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| posted on February 23rd, 2003 at 12:11 PM |
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it is interesting to hear everyones opinions on selling vw's overseas. you all will probably crucify me for my ideas but i would be more than
willing to sell cars or parts overseas. not because of the idea that the car will be restored or anything so noble as that but for one simple
reason..... money.
if i could sell something overseas for a price that would be unheard of here or swap something for a part that i want, i will.
before you attack me for my mercenary attitude, this would not be for cash profit but to fund or supply parts for my project. (i'm a lazy uni
student so funds aren't in abundance)
i agree with the comments of others about cars being chopped up here that would easily find homes overseas as i know that in 8-10 years ago i chopped
up several cars that even now i wouldn't. i agree good project cars are getting more expensive plus harder to find, but if you are willing to
look, travel and spend the time there are still there so why complain if you aren't willing to try.
even with the increasing price of parts here, performance as well as stock, we still have it very very easy compared to people in europe so we really
shouldn't complain and we shouldn't bitch when people get the chance to work on nice cars as opposed to the generally poor stuff in
europe.
ok end rant now.
henry.
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Ghia
Commited Dubber
Posts: 68
Threads: 5
Registered: December 20th, 2002
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Location: planet dub
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| posted on February 24th, 2003 at 03:52 AM |
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Ok I'm up for the cross next.
I can't ever see there being an increase in demand for any Beetles except Splits, Ovals & Karmanns. There were (& still are) too many for
them made to ever to be really rare & valuable.
Split vans are a different matter.
Hey Whatnow (Henry) drop me an email if you get a moment my address is
in my profile.
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hazet
Slammed & Awesome Dubber
Posts: 89
Threads: 19
Registered: December 15th, 2002
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| posted on February 24th, 2003 at 10:29 AM |
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import export
I would say that a lot more classics are reaching our shores than leaving,
Went to Big Al's poker run ,50% of cars were Yank tanks and the majority have been imported,some still LHDrive.
Karmann Ghias have also been imported in small numbers,now that's a good thing,so if a few vw leave our shores,that's too bad,they are going
to a
place where they will be cherrished for ever.
And who knows in 20 years,maybe our economy will be the best in the world and we will be buying back our old cars after they have been restored... for
a song!! :birthday
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