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Author: Subject: Kombi 1800 heads
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posted on March 28th, 2003 at 05:23 PM
Kombi 1800 heads


A little background on my current problem:

I noticed recently that my kombi was making a "poof poof poof" sound from the exhaust and assumed that I had a tight tappet. I adjusted the tappets and discovered that the #3 exhaust valve need over 3 full turns of the adjusting screw to gain clearance. I figured that I had a valve on the way out (stretching), but finished the adjustment, put the rocker cover on and started him up.

The engine ran for a few seconds before stopping. Upon inspection I discovered that I hadn't replaced the dizzy cap - it had just been sitting on top of the distributor, not clipped down. I fixed this and tried to start him again, to no avail.

I've just pulled the exhaust off and part of the problem is obvious: The valve has pounded the metal behind the valve seat right into the exhaust port!!:o

Has anybody ever had this happen before? Can it be repaired? Does anybody have any idea of cost?

As for why it wouldn't start - I haven't worked that out yet. As far as I'm concerned, it should start and run on three cylinders without too much difficulty. I'm hoping that as I continue to strip it down I may find the answer..... I just hope that it won't be too expensive.:(




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posted on March 28th, 2003 at 05:30 PM


Col

Like i said in the other post its a case of NEW heads....

ive never seen 1.7, 1.8 or 2 Litre heads repaired successfully yet.

I think you just have to BITE the bullet

[Edited on 28-3-2003 by vw54]




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posted on March 28th, 2003 at 10:53 PM


new heads...so darn expensive, but you are one person that would definately get the value out of them.
If you go reconditioned then they will last for a few years, and you'll have to pull it all apart again.
The heads are the worst part of these tough motors, once you fix that link .. well the skys the limit.




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posted on March 29th, 2003 at 10:06 AM


Please forgive my ignorance, but I was of the assumption a properly reconditioned head will be 'as good as new'?? The only problem is finding someone who does a proper job.
Please enlighten me why a new head is so much better?
As for cracks, wouldn’t a crack free, stress relieved head be as good as new?
As I will be going down this path soon it will be good to know for sure.
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posted on March 29th, 2003 at 12:15 PM


Well it looks as though I'll have to start saving for some new heads. I've got the LH head off, and the #3 exhaust valve is recessed about 3mm further into the head than it should be. I've also got several cracks in the head, mainly around the exhaust seats. :(

I'll get some photos up as soon as I go and pick up the camera from work.




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posted on March 29th, 2003 at 02:27 PM


In my opinion, the T4 heads "even though they look
like a great design" are not very tough.
Once they have metal fatigued after a hard life, they dont seem to be able to be successfully reconditioned, it is so common for reco-ed T4 heads to fail.
"this is just what I have heard" Maybe I havent come across a really good reconditioner.
-
See what others have to say.




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shocked.gif posted on March 29th, 2003 at 08:39 PM
Ouch!!!


Ok, the damage so far is two cracked heads and a sore finger. :(

I'm now on the lookout for at least one useable 2nd hand 1800 head - there's just no way that I can afford new ones at the moment and I desperately need to be mobile again.

The good news is that I can't feel any end-play in the crank, and the lip on the bores is barely noticable.

While I'm here, I know that there is 1mm difference in bore size between 1800 and 2L cylinders, but is there any difference in the O.D. where they fit into the head?




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posted on March 29th, 2003 at 10:31 PM


I know this is scary stuff " well is for me" but what is best price you can get New one?



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posted on March 30th, 2003 at 06:20 AM


The starting price I have is $790 each. Even if I can get that down to $500 each, I still can't afford them. :(

2nd-hand will have to do for now.




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posted on March 30th, 2003 at 09:43 AM


Col i think you will find by the time u pay for re seating, new valves... welding transportation maching etc etc it wont be far off the price of NEW heads...

Price it out for the excerise n let us know.

And i dont know of any shop that will guarentee there work.

I had some on my Type 3 a few years ago.... the valve seat dropped out on a cold night... just after i started the engine.

I had assumed the Workshop had given me new heads ... i didnt bother the check.




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posted on March 30th, 2003 at 12:24 PM


Dave, I won't be paying for new heads OR reco'd heads; I just can't afford them. I'm looking for uncracked 2nd-hand heads, and I'm going to throw them straight on, as received. I appreciate the advice, but I just can't spend money I don't have. I will be looking for new heads down the track when I rebuild my 2L, but that may be quite some time off.



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posted on March 30th, 2003 at 12:34 PM


I asked earlier, but got no replies, so I'll ask again:

I know that there is 1mm difference in bore size between 1800 and 2L cylinders, but is there any difference in the O.D. where they fit into the head?




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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 07:48 AM


Col

That is / was the problem with most engines that are pull to be overhauled the heads are all cracked. I will ask the question 4 yar anyway but i know what the answer will be


Quote:

I'm looking for uncracked 2nd-hand heads,





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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 10:12 AM


Kruiz

i have sent you an email

:bounce




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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 11:27 AM


Hi Colin, sorry just on the system again today.

Yes the outside OD of 1800 and 2000 cylinders are the same. VW went from 93mm to 94mm pistions just by reducing the thickness of the cylinder wall. There is plenty there on a stock cylinder so it isn;t a problem. In fact, genuine VW oversize pistons used to be available in 95mm, which would have involved honing out the cylinders to match. But yes, 1800 heads will bolt onto 2-litre cylinders with no problem. And vice versa - 2-litre heads on 1800 cylinders.

You would want to cc the heads first and calculate your new compression ratio, as it will have changed.

Good luck finding a decent set of second-hand heads. I bought my reco'd 1800 heads from the USA. There is a place in Pennsylvania called the Bus Depot - they were fantastic and I bought heaps of stuff from them. They sell reco'd 1800 heads for $189 US each + $50 core - you send them your old heads and you get that refunded.

The link is:

http://www.busdepot.com/ASP/search_new.asp 
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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 11:51 AM


But FILL whats was the total price for your heads.... with all the taxes n postage back n forth ... and loosing the heads for a while as well.



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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 01:41 PM


Hmm - well the price of postage of my two stuffed heads to the US was about the same as the $50 core refund, so that comes out about square.

I bought a whole lot of other stuff besides the heads, so i dunno how much postage was back here. Not that much, as it came surface mail and took 6-8 weeks. I wasn't charged import duty so that didn't add anything. I asked them to write 'racing parts' on the box and it came straight through.

Yes one of the boxes was opened and one head was missing, but I claimed it on the freight insurance. They sent me another and it didn't cost anything.

So: 2 x (189+50) / .58 as it was then and it works out at $824 for two reco'd heads. Still cheaper than new 2-litre heads, and they're 1800 heads with bigger valves.

You can always save money shopping overseas on the 'net if you are careful.
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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 04:30 PM


Surely there must be a reputable builder here in Oz??
There's no rocket science in a VW head. A shop with a little experience and who knows the existing problems (cracking/sunken seats) can surely over come them as well as any US shop??
Someone with a little knowledge should also be able to stress relieve them?
I know there will be shops out there who will give ‘em a clean, new guides, lap ‘em in and ship ‘em out, but there’s also good quality shops out there.
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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 06:14 PM


I had always read that the interference fit of the valve seat to head was wrong from factory and that's why u would have problems dropping seats.



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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 06:36 PM


Thanks guys for the opinions, and particularly blue for the info today. :thumb

I will be buying a pair of reco 1800 heads for $500 - a lot less than I anticipated, and a LOT less than new heads. :D

I finally brought the camera home today, so here's some piccies for you....

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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 07:20 PM


Notice how far the #3 exhaust valve is recessed into the head. (RHS)

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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 08:36 PM


That a good news ending to a rather sad story so far Col. I didn't know the prices were so lofty for heads, or mabey I'm just used to throwing type 1 figures around. Saw a type 1 motor for sale for $600 the other day and though that would be a good snavel if of course I had the 600. I think I'll just keep playing with bajas and stay away for the extra power.

Was talking with a mate the other day and after his quoted $1500 for a three month job and two years later got a 3k+ bill for a 1200 motor. $800 of that was on the heads being recoed alone. He probably wouldn't be so pissed if they just rang him and said "look weve found a prob - this is how much extra it going to be". So it may not be rocket science but you do have to trust who is going to do your work I guess.




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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 10:21 PM


Col is that the valve seat down inside the exhaust port... there stuffed.

Hope u can manage to find some good S/H ones...




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posted on March 31st, 2003 at 10:48 PM


Hey Col, great to hear your getting some replacement heads. The forum has worked again!
There's some pretty funky colours on those heads!! Could heat have been a source of the problem?
;)
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posted on April 1st, 2003 at 05:25 PM


Yeah Andy, this forum is a godsend. :thumb:thumb:thumb

I'm not sure that there's anything too unusual about the colours on the heads. The flash on the digital has made them look a little brighter though. Let's just say that its a combination of oil leaks and heat, I'm guessing. Oh, and I had no other choice than to tow the trailer to the tip AFTER I dropped the valve seat, which wouldn't have helped much!!




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posted on April 1st, 2003 at 05:37 PM


This whole thing terrifies me regards my chances of getting to Ayers Rock & back in July on four cylinders on our newly reco
motor VW should have manufuktered quick release Heads instead of quick release rocker covers!!!:(
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posted on April 1st, 2003 at 06:27 PM


Mate, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I bought mine about 20 months ago, and the only thing I really knew about the motor then was that it compression tested ok. It's since been to Noosa and back, as well as clocking up a lot of km's as my daily driver. I often load it up to the hilt, cruise all weekend and generally neglect it, so this was bound to happen.

I think if you've just reco'd yours properly, and you take care to service it regularly, you should have no problems.

If in doubt, make sure you write down some contacts from the 'Help Out A Dubber" section. Someone will be able to help you out.

Even if you don't break down, I've found the best part of travelling in a kombi is the people you meet. I've met quite a few of the forum members along the East Coast, and I've gotta say, they are a great bunch of people - the best. :thumb




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posted on April 1st, 2003 at 10:20 PM


As Col said, don't stress too much. Plenty of kombi's have made the trip before you.
I have read that high head temps have a lot to do with recessed valve seats.
As long as all the tinware and seals are in place, you keep the motor resonably clean and don't overwork it on long hills etc the heads should be OK.
Check the archives on type2.com

[Edited on 1-4-2003 by Andy]
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posted on April 1st, 2003 at 10:39 PM


I think the "overwork" part was the bit I messed up on! :D



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posted on April 1st, 2003 at 10:46 PM


Has anyone on this forum personally had new replacement heads (not reco) fitted to a kombi?





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