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MemberOvalGlen
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posted on May 23rd, 2003 at 10:51 PM


Ok 555 I'm biting this time, what is this v8 .?
It does sound good, must be a short stroke to get those revs.




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posted on May 23rd, 2003 at 10:55 PM


What about the Revtec?

God home grown Aussie flat four - nothing like anything else on the market...

Good horsepower, unreal efficiency and still a flat four... the guts are different but still four cylinders horizontally opposed...

http://www.revetec.com/
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posted on May 23rd, 2003 at 11:34 PM


Hi

A little known fact, every rotary is made under liscence to NSU, a part of Audi, a part of VW.

I like these Oxy boxers, wasserboxers with the water jackets cutoff. Thats what Dave Stocker is running in his drag car, it will be intresting to see how far he can push his motor with a VW case.

You can build up a pretty tough 2110 cc AC motor that is still a VW motor and is meant to 2110 cc, not a bored & strocked 1600 cc.

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posted on May 24th, 2003 at 11:18 AM


Join a few whipper-snipper motors together and away ya go!

High revs, light and compact, air-cooled. Just need to stamp a VW engine number on it and you're set.

:P


BTW
those revetec engines look sweet.
Just added that site to my favorites!

[Edited on 24-5-2003 by 56astro]




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biggrin.gif posted on May 24th, 2003 at 09:53 PM


i KNEW that comment about the VW engine number was gonna get me in trouble ;)



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posted on May 25th, 2003 at 02:26 AM


...Revetec.... God's speed to those guys,
should be a real winner.
I'd love to put one of those in a car.




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posted on June 1st, 2003 at 03:11 PM
Engine swaps ok!


Guys, guys, guys...Let the man do what he wants!
I have only air in my bug but my bus is another story!

240hp & 309Nm anyone? And so far the whole conversion has only cost me 4K including buying the bus!

And yes thats a 6 cylinder Subaru (3.3ltr).

[Edited on 1-6-2003 by humpty]

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posted on June 1st, 2003 at 09:52 PM


how many people take an interest in a vw when its not powered by a flat four, the charm is not the same when it's coming from something else. if you put in a rotary at the end of the day, i just think it's just another rotary and dont take note of whether its a bug or mazda. upholding the tradition is what it's all about boy's, where's the bark in a rotary or even the ej's.
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posted on June 1st, 2003 at 11:37 PM


Its always interesting to hear someone talk KRAP about rotaries.
Firstly Marty you must be piss weak I can lift a 13b by myself high enough to sit it on a crate or whatever admitedly not real high off the ground as motors in general are quite heavy. I have had about 10 different Rotary Mazdas and can vouch for their worth, It does Shiit me to tears to hear someone who obviously knows nothing about rotary motors do their damndest to scare people away, have you ever had a rotary or did your mates with the Chevs {a known light motor} tell you they were krap.
You can have a rotary propel your small car be it rx mazda or vw down the quarter mile in 12 - 13 seconds be quieter than the standard vw {because you dont live in the eighties with a bridgeport you now have a turbo} and still be quite economic when driven sensibly, for example my rx7 took me from jinderbine in the snow to sydney, 535 klms for 1 $32 tank of juice.
If you dont know what you are doing
then
you simply dont know what you are doing
but its best not to run around telling everyone.
you can make well over 300 hp with a stock turbo rotary if you set it up right and I cant really guess what VW gearbox you want to hook up to it without the gearbox being the weakest link in the drive chain.
I have only ever blown a rotary up by ripping a radiator hose and cooking it which just ment it used water but it still ran hard, and once from running about 25 psi boost briefly when I blew a wastegate actuator hose off and it didnt tell the wastegate to back off which would have made a pretty monumental mess off a piston motor too and probably even sooner.
And you can buy all the parts from mazda to rebuild it, and again if you know what youre doing thats not necassarily a huge expense either,
Triple rotor 20B engines are expensive because they are very rare comparatively speaking and what sort of mega strength VW gearbox would you try to fit it to, and what would you do with the six inches of motor hanging out the back of the VW,
Now when you blow one of the "grenades up leaving only a carby"
what exactly do you "BLOW UP"?
melt a hole in a piston? rotors are cast iron.
Snap a crank? never come across it under the 500 hp mark.
Drop a valve? dont have any!
Break a cam shaft? no such thing.
the only thing that kills rotarys is leaning out the air fuel mix too much which will take out an apex seal, or boil them dry as with any motor its pretty bad news.
As far as over reving is concerned you're more likely to explode a flywheel before you damage the internals of the motor and at which point you are at least 4 thousand revs over you power peak and your just being stupid reving over 10 grand.
As for cutting metal. where? they fit in the engine bay second only to a vw motor and mounting a radiator causes little more interuption than mounting a modern stereo in the dash, If being an original VW is the only way to go then be prepared to go slower than the rotary powered VWS.
You can make a VW motor hammer but I doubt you could do it for the same sort of cash outlay.
A fuel injection computer can be picked up out of the trading post second hand for about $500, nearly everything else comes with the imported motor, or you can do the blowthru setup with carby you just need a malpasi rising rate regulator and a decent fuel pump, you can setup fail safe cutouts for boost levels and put water injection onto it with a water level boost canceling mechanism.
$1350 for the motor from the importer
$500 to $1100 used or brandnew microtech or similar computer
Maybe $300 for fuel pump, surge tank radiator etc
and $600 or so for the engine adapter kitt.
You do the math $2750 can you get 300 hp out of your VW motor for that money and still be smooth and drivable like a normal car?
Having said that the law is structured in a way that means all you can have is a normally aspirated 12A which is about 130 hp.
So if you strictly need to be "legal" then maybe a scooby doo motor like an EJ20 turbo which is a bit cheaper and metal work is minimal and if that concerns you then maybe its better to stick to the original engine for originality
.:puke
Originality great but it is just that, and originality wasn't fast at all.

Cheers Tony




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posted on June 2nd, 2003 at 07:25 AM


so there :P

:D

A turbo rotary would be great if it was legal.

As for non-vw engined vw's not drawing any attention at shows, see how many people stand around the back of my car asking me questions at the next show. And see the smile on peoples faces if I take them for a spin.




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posted on June 2nd, 2003 at 08:07 PM


cmon go for a golf motor like me!
smooth, quiet, reliable, long lasting and fuel injected with potential to make big power, and its a vw motor.
no worries with the sump hanging low either:thumb
i have explored the option of rotaries but they ARE too heavy and DONT last, unless u wanna spend big dollars.
subaru motors are nice but the EA81 does not produce the horsepower of a 1800 golf motor and other subi motors require a lot of body work to be removed, and the sump then hangs low.
the golf motor fits inside the rear valance, and fits under my tail and will fit under a stock decklid with lid standoffs.
something to think of!!!!!!!!
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posted on June 2nd, 2003 at 08:49 PM


Quote:


Mini F1 engine?
Hello, no normal engine besides motor cycles can get anywhere near that rpm.
Or arent you being serious(sorry, daftness)?
Josh



HELLO?!?

[size=6]R-O-T-O-R[/size]

Rotories regularly rev freely to 14k with nothing more than a mild port....




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posted on June 2nd, 2003 at 09:28 PM


ive had many a different car from v8 to a turbo 3cyl including an rx2. and the only car which i have had no engine trouble(non what so ever!!!) was the rotory. it never missed a beat and had bucket loads of power(low 13's mild port and weber). if i had the money for a conversion(shouldnt be that much i dont think) i would have notch rotory powered. maybe in the near future:D



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posted on June 2nd, 2003 at 10:56 PM


You may well get 14 grand out of a rotary but Like I said youre then being stupid.
youre power is over and done with by 8 grand with a factory turbo rotary and most port jobs until you start on the big bridge, j ports and peripheral ports, and even then you wont be making any power till you have the carb/injection upsized and the exhaust set up
So even though they may well rev really high its just a good way to score the housings and get chatter marks from the standard steel seals.
Although I am an avid rotory enthusiast There is a reason I have Aussie veedubbers.com as My home page and not Aussie rotor heads .com because I enjoy the good down to earth attitude of the veedubbers and dont miss the imbosile "rotors are nuts bloke look watch me do skids yeh yeh and donuts woo hoo mine revs to 21 thousand revs all day every day mate fully sick mate!,watch me do more skids!!!" attitude.
They are a good reliable motor these days after all its been 34 years since R100s were released. The original 10A rotarys got a bad name again from ignorance, they were new motors with relatively little research on component materials because it all costs money and Mazda didnt have a lot to play with in the 60s.
they came to a point where they had to draw a line, they couldnt afford to spend any more money researching Felix Wankel designed engine for commercial release so it was a case of either release it onto the market or shelve it, they chose to release it and the rest is history.
Rotory engines that dont last are most often the result of people who rev them to 14 grand or think they know what they are doing but really dont when they rebuild them.
Rebuilding a Rotary motor is a thourough and precise job, requires finnese and attention to detail or you get a "grenade" thats hard to start.
So to put things in perspective vw enthusiasts that have no real knowledge of rotary motors but will talk with the greatest of authority about how bad they are, annoy me like you wouldnt believe.

Everyone is welcome to have an opinion but its a good idea to at least be informed before talking kraaap!
I am sure You can understand my frustration,
If I were to Say VWS are craap, they are the slowest pieces of craap made in the 20th century, they leak oil, they catch fire, they roll over easy and they flip around backwards at high speed. they are hitlers revenge blah blah blah oh and they are ugly too. all things we have heard before but also things we understand to be untrue and just the result of ignorance.




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posted on June 2nd, 2003 at 11:32 PM
clippings


no way i'm gonna put a rotary mower in my ride on :D

i believe.. not thru ignorance, that the 'dak' noise a vw makes is kinda half the spirit of it. the shape is cool, but heck you could fibreglass mould one and glue it onto a japanese (or whatever) car if ya wanted to. for me it's making power and style with what you've been given to work with. type threes type ones combis fours, 2.5s and all the others....
the simplicity and ruggedness of the standard VW configuration engine has it's appeal for me. and i think i speak for myself there
:D




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posted on June 2nd, 2003 at 11:48 PM


C'mon. There's nothing wrong with fitting another engine if you're not up to the challenge of improving the performance of an air cooled flat four. :D OK, so you'll never be a real dubber - but you can still pretend...

A friend at work has a dyno-proven 390kW WRX; but he paid other people a lot of money to get it that way. I'll take the satisfaction of building my own VW engine to produce the performance I want any day.
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posted on June 3rd, 2003 at 12:25 AM


yes i agree, rotary engines rock :)

Mmmm the only reason I would go for a VW aircooled is purely so i can say It was a vee dub motor when I dust ppl :)

Other than that I would probably fit an EJ20T if there was no body cutting required.




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posted on June 3rd, 2003 at 09:43 AM


Hi all

This is a very interesting read, with some good suggestions coming out too. That Revetec site is well worth a visit.

As for the engines, Wes hit the nail on the head with the comment about modern engines.... If engineers haven't been able to improve the combustion engine in the last 50 years since the T1 engine was designed then we've all got big problems....

Thats not to say that we should all run out and fit modern Jap engines that are efficient, quite etc but all of us have different goals.

Some people love the simplicity of the T1 engine- and engines don't come much simplier than that (or do they??? correct me if I'm wrong, it has happened B4 and seems to quite regularly :) )

Some people love the character and charm (oil...) of the T1 and it is certainly nice to keep original cars original. There is something we can all appreciate when we look at a well restored oval or split- especially with modern cars looking as they do.

But then there are those who like horsepower and going fast, but still like the appeal of the VW Beetle (or T2 or T3 etc)- and they're going to be hard to please with a T1 engine- so why not look at other options.....

Me... well I'd luv to fit a T4 engine to my Beetle, I like the character of the flat 4 aircooled engine, I'd like it to go a little quicker than it currently does, be strong and reliable, and the T4 seems to satisfy that- it will never be as efficent or make the HP of a modern water cooled engine- but thats not what I'm after

So I say ... go for your life, make it go quick if that's what your after

Oh yeah and remember the old saying about speed costs money... how fast do you want to go....

:D

Cheers
Jeremy

[Edited on 2-6-2003 by Jeza]




......random gibberish for today.......
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posted on June 3rd, 2003 at 01:31 PM


if you have the funding go all out, the quicker the better. is there anything better then blowing away a lil 4 with a big exhust in a vw, i don't think so...
:D




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posted on June 3rd, 2003 at 04:36 PM


If you blow someone away in your VW engined vw, they just think you have a WRX or porsche motor in the back anyway. I remember one guy in a GTi swift wouldn't believe it was a 1915 vw motor that beat him. Even after he looked at the motor he still didn't know what it was.

Now I will beat them by so much they will never know what was in the back. I will still be satisfied that I created the monster myself [insert evillaugh here]




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posted on June 3rd, 2003 at 10:23 PM


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posted on June 12th, 2003 at 10:03 PM


I've been thinking (can ya smell the wood burning?) and I reckon one of those VW W8 engines in a beetle would be awesome.

What duya reckon?




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posted on June 13th, 2003 at 01:11 AM


I'd LOVE to see it, but I bet they cost lot$$$$$!!!



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posted on June 13th, 2003 at 05:59 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Quickbug
Quote:

Mini F1 engine?
Hello, no normal engine besides motor cycles can get anywhere near that rpm.
Or arent you being serious(sorry, daftness)?
Josh

HELLO?!?
[size=6]R-O-T-O-R[/size]
Rotories regularly rev freely to 14k with nothing more than a mild port....


HELLO?!?! yourself. The engine quoted was a 2L V8 that revved to 14000, certainly not normal.

Sorry Herbie but regardless of what power they put out they all sound shit.
I crewed on a series 7 for the 94 bathurst 12 hour. (the one that was being lapped every half hour by the factory ones) it sounded crap, and was factory except for exhaust and ECU. And the bloody 2 stroke oil stuff that we had to put in it would kill the guys doing rear tyre changes.

I dont like the subaru conversion in anything non-kombi because the sumps are too low.




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posted on June 13th, 2003 at 09:59 PM


jeez, tell us what you really think Chris :D

PS - I agree ;)




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posted on June 14th, 2003 at 12:54 AM


They are an aquired taste, I agree, very few sound "nice"



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posted on June 14th, 2003 at 01:14 AM
I'ts not just the sound but.....


Hey CF I totally agree about the sound...Not nice (to me anyway!). And besides, no one I have ever heard of, has ever made one work in a VW road car. Can't seem to get the gear ratios right for the Rotary donk.
As for the Subi conversion...You may remember that we have a Notch that we built 6 years ago with a EJ20T in it. No real clearance problems with that! In fact my bug with a BERG sump is closer to the ground! And if I had the coin I would like to dry sump it......Maybe one day! If clearance was really a problem you could always section the sump! Scarry! My EG33 conversion is well on the way & know of a guy in the US that has sectioned his EG33 sump and loads of other EJ22 owners too! So it can be done. Though the loss of oil capacity does make me wonder!




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posted on June 14th, 2003 at 04:56 PM


:o CF? you havent been talking to Tait have you?

Maybe unwins car is too low. I've never liked the look of the sump on his. He broke it twice at Mt Cotton.

The Subaru 6 is nice. Hellbug did one in a T3. I thought it looked neater than the original WBX.




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posted on June 20th, 2003 at 12:22 AM
Taities a slack bastard!


Hey Chris (CF!), I haven't touched base with Tait in ages...He lives down in Rocko & I only get down that way during the week, when he's workin'. Besides he's off the VW trip anyhow! The EG33 goes in in 2 weeks...God willing! I haven't seen Unwins car...Though I have heard about it! Hows your Fasty these days?
Back to this topic...
As for cutting up your car (for the Subi donk)...It all depends what you stick the EJ into...In a late bus, she slids straight on in (though the gas tank is an issue). In an splitty, just a little trimming (same fuel tank issue). In a TIII notch/fasty you'll have to trim the floor, forward of the engine, above the trans. In a bug...Loads to do there!

We clear on the Subi conversion...As for the Rotor Motor...They are tiny...Should be an easy swap, but good gear ratios are tuff to find for the rotaries characteristics, so I hear.




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posted on June 20th, 2003 at 10:49 AM


my fastback is immobile at present. Needs throttle position sensor and fuel pump. Will probably need a little dyno time to check A/F as I played around with the fuel regulator in my kombi. Dont know what pressure it was running before. It hasnt moved since Easter last year. $1000 worth of tyres on it and they have probably gone hard and have as much grip as a 145 crossply.



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