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 Monkeydub
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| posted on August 5th, 2008 at 07:45 AM |
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ej20t into a squareback
Hi,
I'm after shoehorning an ej20t into my '65 squareback. Everything is stock at the moment. I'm going to collect parts slowly as time allows. Anybody
got any links or info on this conversion....I've seen the subynotch link but I'm after squareback specifically. I'm no stranger to turbo
conversions as I've recently completed a type1 turboed engined bay window, but am a little of a loss when it comes to efi.
Engine wise, what year can I use upto? Could I use a Version 5 STI model engine 98-99?
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pete wood
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| posted on August 5th, 2008 at 03:32 PM |
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I guess the major thing is that the engine is significantly taller than a pancake motor. I think you might need to enlarge the engine cover, although
I may be wrong about that. Certainly, enlarging it will make working on the car easier. You will also want to brace the chassis horns by triangulating
them up to the shock towers and such. A good tranny with an albins gear set and a superdiff will help you a lot. The biggest issue will be where to
put the intercooler.
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pod
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| posted on August 5th, 2008 at 05:10 PM |
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talk to Klaus on here he has a subi powered squareback
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Monkeydub
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| posted on August 5th, 2008 at 08:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
The biggest issue will be where to put the intercooler.
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I was thinking about a water/air intercooler so placement would be less critical.
Regarding the engine cover, how much does the engine stick out by and has no-one found an OEM cover that fits? I would like to retain the 205x5 wheel
stud configuration for a stock appearance but I need to replace all 4 drums with brakes, I know 205x5 beetle discs don't fit...any other options?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood You will also want to brace the chassis horns by triangulating them up to the shock towers and such.
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Are there any aftermarket braces available or will it be DIY?
Are there any images/pics of an install knocking around?
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pete wood
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| posted on August 6th, 2008 at 05:28 PM |
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first up, unless you are planning to do some serious drags, can I suggest moving to IRS. Keep the early rear subframe with the horns and convert this
to IRS. Gearboxes are your next drama. Either an Lbug box with albins gears and superdiff, a bus box with special albins gears or a porsche G50. More
power = more $$$
Then make up a kafer style brace like this one....
http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/shop_main.cgi?func=start&wkid=247715...
avoid the b#gpack style as it puts a bending load along the long bar that should brace the shock towers. Obviously you also need a different engine
mount bar too. I'd also look at adding some extra framework to the rear of the car to stiffen it up, because they were never designed to support the
power and torque of an EJ20. I'd compare it to putting a 350chev in an FJ holden.
I don't think you can find an OEM cover that will fit. You could graft in a bus engine cover surround and make up a fibreglass cover that bulges up
and over the motor. Alternatively, a false floor that is a few inches higher will give you less space in the boot but a neater installation. you could
put everything under it. computer, tanks, intercooler etc. I've seen a UK build early square with such a setup and a 993 flat 6 in it. The false
floor in his car was perspecs so you see the motor under it. very cool, but not much boot left.
As a man who's kept 5x205 rims on his buggy, I wish I hadn't. There are a heap of others avaible in all sorts of stud patterns, wide 5 is the
hardest to get anything in unless it's classic looking or offroad racing rims. there are a number of disc conversion for them, front and rear, but it
won't be cheap...but then I guess you already know that, right. 
Anyway, I guess the point is, if you want to do it right, it will mean doing it such that it won't be easily reversable. I can't really help you
with the efi side of things except to say, there are new rechipping systems for the later ej20ts and they are supposed to both excellent and legal.
I'd talk to MRT or quickfit motorsport about them.
There are a heap of guys who've done EJ20ts into notches and fasties and a few into squares. Hopefully they'll still their noses in here as well.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on August 6th, 2008 at 06:37 PM |
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A Square conversion is more complicated than a Fasty or sedan due to the engine effectively being in the passenger compartment of the vehicle, not
behind a firewall. You will need to chop out the floor forward of the OE engine cover to the level of the rear seat to fit TB and intercooler and
fabricate a heat and air-tight 'firewall' box to meet engineer's specs.
Swing subframe converted with IRS pivots and trailing arms is sensible, if not mandatory unless you want to kill yourself with evil handling. It's a
good idea to brace this to the shell inside the rear wheel wells.
Due to flex incompatibility between OE VW and Subie mounts, it's a good idea to support the rear of the new engine with fabricated mount/crossbar to
the body. Unlike Beetle, the rear of the Type 3 shell is strong enough for this (within reason!), as that's how the original VW engine is
supported
I believe wiring pre 1997 engine management is easier, no VCT or VAT to de-bug. There are specialists who can assist, or contract-assemble, wiring
harnesses (eg Sideshow Performance Wiring). Rads fit up front without too much effort. You wil of course require coolant pipes, upgraded fuel system,
small swirl pot, return lines etc etc
You will need split-circuit brakes and four-wheel discs (vented fronts) to satisfy state Codes of Practice for legal rego as this is what the Subie
donor car was fitted with. I can provide kits front and rear in Porsche, VW or Commodore etc stud pattern, but not 'wide five'.
HTH
EDIT: I assumed you were in Australia...!
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Monkeydub
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| posted on August 7th, 2008 at 06:14 AM |
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This is what I will be fitting the motor too:
I would really like to keep the 205x5 stud pattern as I want the car to be a real sleeper. For now I am going to keep the swing axle gearbox until
funds allow an upgrade. For the brakes I will try and source some discs up front but will be retaining the drums at the rear intially.
Regarding cutting up the floor. Is it not possible to relocate the intercooler to help keep more of the floor in tact?
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hellbugged
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| posted on August 7th, 2008 at 06:21 AM |
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some ideas here for you to ponder...........
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=44043
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Monkeydub
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| posted on August 7th, 2008 at 06:36 AM |
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thanks for the link...will give it a read through. Why did you choose to flip the TB like SubyNotch?
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pete wood
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| posted on August 7th, 2008 at 10:08 AM |
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I predict that your tranny will last somewhere in the order of a week with a big turbo and new found excitement. But I could be wrong. Lovely square
there.
have you seen this car?
Looks up http://www.typethreedetectives.com/
then look in the gallery at the 993 powered square. Be a good place to start getting ideas I reckon. Heck, maybe you could use a porsche motor instead
of a subaru turbo.
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Klaus
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| posted on August 7th, 2008 at 03:33 PM |
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good idea putting ej20t into squareback , mines now clocked up 40 000kms with few dramas .
I ended up making a cradle set up to support engine and box as i used irs subframe so i had enough room to run 3 inch exhaust. Brakes wise i've
converted to dual circuit and all discs and drums from a 72 squareback , its not a racecar setup but it works fine as long as you know your limits.
Gearbox is again from the 72 and is single side plate with 4.125 stock everything not even rebuilt just fresh oil .
engine is 92 rs legacy with water to air intercooler (stock) and i had to cut the loading area completely out.
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Monkeydub
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| posted on August 7th, 2008 at 09:34 PM |
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Thanks for the images...makes me want to brake out the spanners now!
Klaus why didn't you flip the TB and relocate the alternator like this: http://www.subynotch.com/. It looks like he got away with cutting any of the load area....I know it's in a notch but
should be the same size access hole to deal with. What does you SQ cruise at with you tranny? Also what are the noise levels like inside the car. This
will be used as my daily and I don't want my ears to bleed each time I get in.
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Monkeydub
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| posted on August 8th, 2008 at 08:28 AM |
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Klaus - just so i'm straight on what you did. You converted to IRS which doesn't have the engine supports but to compensate for this you fabriacted
your own engine mount? If I installed a camber compensater to my swing axle setup would there be any necessity to convert to IRS?
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pete wood
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| posted on August 8th, 2008 at 09:49 AM |
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there's no necessity per se to convert to IRS, except all the stronger VW gearboxes are IRS, 1303, bus etc. Also, IRS is a much better handling
system for going round corners. It just makes sense to convert to IRS while you are there is all.
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Monkeydub
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| posted on August 9th, 2008 at 05:24 AM |
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What 200mm pressure plate is recommended for over 200bhp and what for 300bhp?
Also are there any 'how to's' for sorting the wiring loom....how hard is it to do?
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rocknrob
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| posted on August 9th, 2008 at 06:21 PM |
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after you've spent three months of brainstrain trying to figure the wiring you look back and think...yeah that was easy really
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Klaus
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| posted on August 9th, 2008 at 07:26 PM |
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didn't flip the tb because it all fitted so nicely with the intercooler and everything is factory length induction .
just about to update torsion bars to 28mm as it sits on the bumpstops with all tools in the back for work . and its chewing the tyres out pretty
quick. Noise is nice even with factory blow off valve . Old car lots of noise no carpets just steel floor and a little bit of carpet covering engine
cover ( still the temp mdf ). Body is starting to show signs of age and 200hp so a freshen up is due soon , would have liked to do this in a later
type 3 wagon as they have alot more bracing .
revs sit at about 3200 at 100kph so 3.88 would be nice so it just sits of boost. Yeah wiring was fun just went through harness labelling and removing
things not needed.
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Monkeydub
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| posted on August 11th, 2008 at 11:30 PM |
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Does any1 know of the dimensions of the twin turbo? Also what are these motors like...have been offered one with a bus box and it's caught my
attention.
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pete wood
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| posted on August 12th, 2008 at 03:25 PM |
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grab both. toss the twins and put a single turbo on. the twins don't work as well and take up more room.
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Monkeydub
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| posted on August 12th, 2008 at 10:04 PM |
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Are the longblocks the same as the single turbo engines....any issues etc?
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