| [ Total Views: 596 | Total Replies: 17 | Thread Id: 7628 ] |
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 Bizarre
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| posted on June 19th, 2003 at 02:37 PM |
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HELP!! Type 4 timing - Daisy sick - STILL SICK
I know T1's like the back of my hand
T4's i am still coming to terms with.
Daisy is sick at the moment. The stock electronic ignition has died.
Dont know wether it is the module outside or the coil thingy inside the distributor.
Either way the easiest fix is to bang a 009 on.
I am comfortable with that but i have never tuned her before - i have always left that to V Force. But the biys are blue arsed getting ready for Oran
Park on Saturday (dont start - thats another story)
Any good sites to tell me where to see TDC, 10 degree marks abd how to line it alll up?
I can probabally work it out but i need to get it going before tomorrow (hopefully) and any quick finds will be really helpful
[Edited on 19-6-2003 by blue74l]
Futue te ipsum!!!
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 Andy
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| posted on June 19th, 2003 at 03:43 PM |
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Just a few links.
Type 4's should have a scale next to the pully/fan for timing. If not most VW places should have them. Stock is 8.5deg, but you may need to
fiddle with a 009 a bit.
Happy reading
http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/points.htm
http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/timex.htm
http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/bosch009.htm
http://www.type2.com/bartnik/tech.htm:thumb
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 19th, 2003 at 03:53 PM |
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OK Thanks Andy
Now for a REALLY base question where i will show my T4 ignorance.
To move the pulley on a T1 you can put a shifter or plug wrench on the alternator and turn it.
Now i am a work here so i am not looking at the motor - but how do i turn the T4 motor?
Do i have to take the plastic "cage" over the pulley off? or can i get to the generator by looking down from the top?
I am in "need quick answer" mode here so please bear with me.
I am trying to have all the answers so i can do it tonight after kids soccer training - otherwise it is wait for Sunday and put up with the
complaints!
Thanks
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 19th, 2003 at 03:58 PM |
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Ahh wish i was at home cause the answer is probably there in front of me -
on a T1 you line the tining mark on the pulley with the case half - is this the same with T4'2?
OK thats better - i asked, dont feel as silly now
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Andy
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| posted on June 19th, 2003 at 04:13 PM |
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Hey, don't worry, we all had to start at the same place, some just did it a long time ago 
Same deal to turn the type 4, spanner on the Alternator (at the end of the belt hehehe). No need to take the plastic cover off.
Unfortunately there is only a TDC notch on the pully (on the fan) that has to line up with the scale markings. the scale is bolted to the fan housing
and may be missing if you are unlucky. The scale runs from '8 o'clock' to '12 o'clock' as you look at the crank. 8.5 deg
is roughly '10 o'clock' from memory.
Type 4's supposedly get bad flat spots with a 009, but I have no personal experience.
Are you sure that's the problem? Or ar you just fitting it to see if that fixes the problem?
Might be worth checking a few other things while your there, particularly valve adjustment.
:thumb
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 19th, 2003 at 04:22 PM |
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Thanks again Andy
No i am 97% sure it is the problem
I had NRMA out and he had a "coil pack" that he hooke onto my dizzy and the car ran.
This bypassed those two things.
So i am concluding that if i just dump the electronlc innition set up i can get it running with the 009.
I will keep the other bits in case i can get it going again
Here is hoping that scale is there!!
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Andy
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| posted on June 19th, 2003 at 04:37 PM |
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Cool,
Can't find a good pic, but it's all easy to find, just a liitle harder to work on than a beetle
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 09:02 AM |
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BUGGER BUGGER BUGGER
I changed the ditributor last night and found the necessary timing marks and set at 10 degrees and she fired right up. Didnt drive but just reved her
and all was well. Stoped and tidied up.
Started her again repeat a few times.
Then she started going "funny" - wouldnt hold idle and then had trouble starting again. Stuffed around till i had the sh!ts and went to
bed.
Got up early and tried to time her.
NOW -
I cant time her with a volt meter. No "click" when the points close and volts stay high? If i disconnect the power i can "time" by
an ohm meter - like the points close and i get a circuit through the meter. But i cant do this when i add power????
I am getting really pissed now!!
I swapped coils with my beetle and same thing.
The only thing i can think of is condenser?
Anyway i have a new one in my pocket and will try when i duck home at lunch time.
Just NEED the car tonight!!!
BUGGER BUGGER BUGGER
Futue te ipsum!!!
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kombikim
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 09:50 AM |
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I am probably wrong but flooding gives EXACTLY the same symptoms, the whole shebang happened to me last week, I thought it was no spark somewhere or
no fuel on one bank, but it actually turned out to be TOO much fuel supply, gradually building up over 5 or 10 mins until the plugs could not cope,
just worth a mention |
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Andy
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 09:52 AM |
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Hey Blue, didn't realize Daisy was a T3 van, hope the info I gave you was still appropriate. Should have triggered when you said it was stock
electronic ignition!!
As for your continued problems, sounds wired that it worked initially then went bad again???? Hopefully it's the condenser as you say.
As for timing, I never bothered with the volt/ohm method. I always set initially with feeler gauge (dwell) and a bit of paper between the points for
timing. I get it pretty right every time! (always check properly of course).
:thumb
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 10:06 AM |
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Dont think it is fuel cause it will run sometimes - just have to keep the foot flat to the boards.
It did run when NRMA put the coil pack on.
It did run when i first put the 009 in.
Being picky Andy - Daisy is a T2.5? She is an air cooled T3? You info was fine - doubt i would have found that timing scale in the dark!
What has me stumped is that i cant get the volts to go low when i time her statically with juice on?
I set the points to 20 thou line up to 10 degrees and turn the dizzy until the points go "click" or the volts go to 0. Just not getting a
click / 0volts. The points are making cause of when i check with the ohm meter and no volts on.
Oh well - i will report after lunch
Futue te ipsum!!!
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kombikim
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 12:06 PM |
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sounds like points earthed slightly somewhere, put ohmeter one side of points to earth, one at a time to Check?? |
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 01:50 PM |
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Hmmm...... this is going nowhere!!
Put the new condenser on and yep - up she starts - runs fine.
Let it idle and it just starts loosing it!. Slowly works its way down need to pump the accelerator then usually a bang! (backfire) and a cloud of
smoke.
Hmmmm..... gonna be a LONG week end
Futue te ipsum!!!
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kombikim
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 02:08 PM |
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still sounds like fuel, try starting without aircleaners & looking down throats as it proceeds to die |
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Andy
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 02:10 PM |
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I had very similar symptoms when I had fuel delivery problems. Enough would get into the float bowls to start, but not enought to keep running. (I
have carbs)
I assume you have FI???
I Don't know what to do with them unfortunately.
Can't think of anything electrically that could cause that, mind you some one here recently had a dodgy ignition switch that would cut in and out
if the key move a bit. Might be worth investigating?
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 02:41 PM |
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Andy - i have carbs. It was a Suth Efricun import that had the electronic ignition and twin carbs.
It has me stumped - just would have thought it was electrical seeing as the "original" problem was no spark.
Anyway - i am asking for help from the racing boys. The are up to there arse in race motors trying to get ready for tomorrows Oran Park experience.
They have helped and put up with my questions - but Richard says i can get hin Sunday
I will think pleasant thoughts until then
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 20th, 2003 at 07:26 PM |
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Just filling ya's in cause i got the poo's and cant drive to have a beer with Grey and Fil and Dave etc
I reckon it WAS the electronic ignition and i fixed it with the 009.
But i reckon the 009 is CRAP!
The points just aint got guts. I went and checked a set of points on and old stock dizzy i have and there is force in them. These in the 009 are limp.
Its night now and when i statically time it when the points close you can see it arcing - its not a solid "click" on and "click"
off.
Hmmm.... i think tomorrow i will borrow the Magfire out of the bug and try that in the kombi. See how that goes.
Futue te ipsum!!!
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on June 22nd, 2003 at 09:37 PM |
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I wish I could help ya Baz, but anything harder than tappets, dwell and timing, and I'm stuffed.
Kruizin Kol
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Bizarre
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| posted on June 22nd, 2003 at 09:53 PM |
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got it sorted Col!
Bloody crap points in the new 009!
Have a look at my "Crap 009" post
There was NO tension in the new points spring.
Put a Magfire in instead
Bloody push rod tube started leaking on the heater box today though
Still an easy fix - for Richard. I will pass on that job.
Futue te ipsum!!!
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on June 22nd, 2003 at 10:02 PM |
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Well done mate. I wish I could still pass stuff like that on, but the only VW guy within an hour of me retired a couple years ago.
Kruizin Kol
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