| [ Total Views: 2276 | Total Replies: 21 | Thread Id: 88026 ] |
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 binner
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| posted on January 7th, 2011 at 07:54 PM |
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timing marks on type 3 1600 and setting timing
Hi, I will apologise in advance being a newbie and all...... but can someone help me with timing marks and where to set timing.
I have a 009 dizzy, twin carb EMPI's with vacums blocked off and am running my idle speed at around 900 +/- warmed up.
My question is this, which timing mark should I be running off?. I have one notch alone then to the right of that notch (about 11/12mm) to the right
I have another 3 notches closer together.
Am I correct in the assumption that it should be set at idle speed or should it be set at a higher RPM?. I am using a timing light also.
I have set my idle speed as per instructions that came with the EMPI carb kit and just cant get the thing to run smooth ....It seems to hesitate and
splutter when you are on the juice. Once I set the idle speed (linkages are off the carbs) I then hooked up the linkages set the timing to what I
thought was correct , then gave the jets a turn until each carb was about to cut out , backed them off a turn until they ran smooth again but I still
get a splutter and iffy power to ground when I drive up the street.......
Would a Pertronix igniter kit solve this problem or am I just tuning/timing the wrong way?.....
Thanks in advance Binner ...and hey Matthew B, if you are reading this and laughing ( I bet you are) it's Ian from good old Brisbane, yeah I am
back into VW's after a 11 year hiatus, having my midlife crisis restoring a 71 squareback and loving it!!!! 
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Andy
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| posted on January 7th, 2011 at 10:52 PM |
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The first mark on it's own is TDC (0deg), the next three in sequence are 7.5, 10 and 12.5 deg (from Haynes manual)
Timing varies depending in motor and distributor you have, proceedure to set timing (for stock setup) is engine running, warmed up, everything else
set (dwell etc) remove vacume hose and at idle set to correct advance (eg 7.5 deg).
Please note there should be another single mark at 180deg. This is for setting the valves (No 2 and 4 cylinders)
Now I have no experience on none stock setups, so please get more info for your exact case. I believe you set a 009 to give the correct max advance,
in other words you will need a mark on the pulley when max advance is (don't have details, but I guess ~35-40deg) and rev the engine above where full
advance is achieved in a 009 (again I don't know, but guess ~2500rpm)
As for the spluttering, I have heard this is common with the 009, there are smarter people than me that will have tuned it out. I personally stick
with stock stuff 
Try a few other forums for info also:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/72type3.php
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=24&sid=5f6bd64daa00287859ea...
http://vwtype3.org/
Search around for electronic ingnition info, everyone has their opinions, for a stock setup the only advantage is no need to clean/replace/adjust
points anymore.
For a performance setup along with upgraded full ignition system is better and more accurate spark timing.
Type 3's are great cars, stick with it and you will be reworded with great motoring is real style
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binner
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on January 10th, 2011 at 07:53 PM |
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ahhh yes, finally got the timing sorted... but wait there is more. I loaded it up with some brand new EMPI EPC 34 dual carbs and did what I thought
was correct adjustments, I have sync'd the carbs but they run like shite!!, they backfire, splutter hi rev at idle then cut out ..blarghh blarghhh
blarghhh ... basically sounds like my missus yelling at me when I leave the tv blaring and I'm passed out on the lounge late at nite. I did notice
that the right side carbie ignites in the barrel when you pop the throttle.... whats that about?
Is it a case of resizing the needles or am I just losing my mind.... 
........oh and if anyone close to Wavell Heights in Brisbane is a guru with these things to set up, I am more than happy to pay you for your services
in beer/wine/food/gift cards or something similar if you can help out. I just want to get it on the road (if it ever stops raining here)
thanks in advance
Matt B ......where are you ?????
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Andy
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| posted on January 10th, 2011 at 09:34 PM |
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Bin the 009....
No real idea on that one, put it back to stock
Hope some one else has idea's
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binner
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| posted on January 10th, 2011 at 10:27 PM |
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yeah .... i just ripped out the brand new carbs , checked the float height (11mm with gasket) cleaned out the barrels, cleaned out the jets. I even
pulled the fuel tank out and gave it a clean out, refitted it with new fuel filter and we will see tomorrow how it goes. Couldn't be Fu#%ed right now
to go playing.
I also ordered one of these http://www.hot-spark.com/Hot-Spark-SVDA034-3BOS4U1.htm not sure if it will help but meh. Maybe you are right and I'll
go back to original carbs.....
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Andy
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| posted on January 13th, 2011 at 11:13 PM |
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Man, that's serious removing the tank!!!
As much as I love to stick to stock and am happy with them, I'm also happy to admit you can do a lot better than using a stock carby!!
I'm sure you can get the ones you have working if you persevere.
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bitemeoz
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| posted on January 14th, 2011 at 06:10 AM |
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Make sure you change your fuel filter as well. I went through a similar thing, idled ok but under power started missing. Changed everything then
lastly a $4 fuel filter and that fixed it.
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binner
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| posted on January 14th, 2011 at 08:24 PM |
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arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh ok , still got dramas...........so now I want to talk about dizzy drive shaft. I have #1 at TDC and #1 valves are closed, when I
pull out the dizzy (009) and look at the slot should the small segment be facing me, kinda like slots facing East/West as I look at the engine
(installed in car) or should the small segment be more facing the left hand carbi on an angle as I look at the engine.
I'm reading so many conflicting positions in different places, my Haynes manual is stating it should be like the latter as I stated above. And the
way I'm reading on Rob n Daves website its saying it should be like the first stated.
And just so I'm not completely wiggin out, the firing order is clockwise 1-4-3-2 correct? which means if I reinstall the dizzy, set the rotor
pointing towards HT 1 on the cap, points open (TDC #1) and then going clockwise around the cap it should be firing 1-4-3-2 ...... Is this correct?
thanks in advance Ian
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Andy
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| posted on January 14th, 2011 at 08:56 PM |
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Taken from Scientific Publication book:
With at firing point (timing mark on pulley) position drive shaft with drive fully enauged so the slot at the top is 60deg to the joint faces of the
crank halves. The smaller offset of the drive must be towards the coil.
Please note this is not really important. For a stock dissy it just gets the vacuum can etc in a convinient position. As long as the dissy goes on
your OK. The important thing is getting the timing right. Firing order you have is right, and yes with No 1 at TDC and valves closed (both rockers
loose) the rotor is just starting to overlap the No 1 lead. Cylinders after that are 4, 3, 2 in sequence (turning motor clockwise as you look at the
fan. Dissy also sould turn clockwise.
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binner
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| posted on January 14th, 2011 at 10:26 PM |
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^^^^^^^ thanks for the info Andy, I'm ready to give up. I got my mate who is head tech for Porsche brisbane coming round tomorrow to weave his
magic.... lets hope it does the trick....
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Andy
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| posted on January 14th, 2011 at 10:44 PM |
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Good Luck!!
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binner
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| posted on January 15th, 2011 at 12:55 PM |
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well...well so we started at the beginning and you won't believe it, but all 4 plugs were fouled up from my first round of running the engine
and just caked the plugs in junk. It always goes to show it's always the most basic thing on VW's (usually).
We got it too run as good as can be expected with the 009 but once I get the Hot Spark set up I hope that solves all issues with the dreaded flat
spot......
keep you posted 
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Andy
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| posted on January 16th, 2011 at 12:42 PM |
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Cool!!!
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 16th, 2011 at 01:01 PM |
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009 set to 32 degrees total advance
The ole Flat spot myth lol
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binner
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on January 16th, 2011 at 05:03 PM |
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edit
^^^^^^^ so it's ok to go 32 deg... I thought 28 was the magic number. Do you have any idea of a measurement from TDC to right 32 deg would be ? and
should I be sitting on about 3000 rpm?
found that info ... 46.5 mm for 30 deg
thanks for your help so far peoples......
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zocstar
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| posted on January 16th, 2011 at 05:43 PM |
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+1 on how to measure.
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hellbugged
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| posted on January 16th, 2011 at 08:28 PM |
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yes just make sure when you rev hard it total advance reaches 32........sorry, thought i put this up when the thread first came up, this damn computer
has a major flat spot
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 matberry
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| posted on January 16th, 2011 at 10:41 PM |
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Yeah sorry Ian, I had a flat spot on my puter too
32* total is the go for the 009 but as I mentioned on the talking bone with the stock (style) carbs I'd really go with a vac advance dissy.
I can swing by one trip to Bris and set things up for you if you want, just let me know how urgent.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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binner
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| posted on January 17th, 2011 at 12:22 PM |
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^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thanks Mr Berry, I might wait till the electro ignition arrives (this week) and see how I go ... but mate, if you are ever down here
(I'm in Wavell Heights now, or as my lil girl calls it ..Weevil Bites) you are welcome to drop in anytime and have an ale or two and talk about old
days or how bad I am at timing engines bahhh hahhhh
out
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binner
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on January 26th, 2011 at 11:43 AM |
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ok Mr Berry, I would love it for you to drop by if you are down this way to have a peek at my set up. I put the hot-spark ignition kit in dialled it
all in as per instructions ran the car up and down the street, it is better than the 009 dizzy but still it feels sluggish n pops/lil backfire running
thru the gears....
I'm happy to pay for your services in beer/cash/gift vouchers/high class hookers  i'm pretty easy bout getting time off work too if you are ever down here in work hours......
help me obe wan berry ......... 
Ian
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binner
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on February 27th, 2011 at 07:14 PM |
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planets aligned
Well, after a month or so of not knowing what the heck was going on with my carbs. I finally took them apart again (3rd time) on Fri nite and stripped
them bare, soaked every single part in carb clean, went over every jet and cleaned,recleaned, blew out carbies 2wice. Checked and set float level
again, blew out every orifice (mine not included) with air, blew out fuel lines and rehosed em, smashed in a new fuel pump, checked and regapped
plugs, threw out the stoopid empi hi performance (WTF?) coil and went with a bosch 12 volt run o tha mill coil, new leads, went back to my hot spark
electro ignition. Smashed in 95 octane fuel and F$%k me if by some miracle the damn thing was hammering along after some fine tuning.... ran the
highway pushing 80 MPH passing cars without one bit of hesitation........
I then cruised back into the city to do city driving for bout 30min and it was purring all the way thru bris downtown and to home. Shut it down and
left it for an hour or so then went out and restarted it, fearing the worst but *shazzam* the thing was purrrfect.
So, who really knows what was the issue, I am just too scared now to touch anything in the engine bay fearing it will decide to go back to those
horrible, dark days of running like a cow.
I want to say "CHEERS" to Matt for helping me out sooooo much since I have made the reentry into the VW world, you still are the same guy I asked,
whinged, sat around and bugged, used way too much of your hand cleaner with 10+ years ago as you are today. A great help and genuine bloke.
See you at the top!!
ps, is oil temp at around 120 deg average on a day like today doing highway driving? or do we even care about oil temp anymore?
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zocstar
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| posted on February 27th, 2011 at 07:50 PM |
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Well done mate. Must feel good to have it sorted.
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