| [ Total Views: 1478 | Total Replies: 28 | Thread Id: 88526 ] |
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 clinker42
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 posted on February 4th, 2011 at 12:16 PM |
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VW ENGINES ARE CRAP - OR I'M CLUELESS
What planet do these VW mechanics/Engineers/Machinists come from.
I ordered a standard set of main bearings for an engine.
They turn up, low and behold, standard doesnt mean standard. Standard journal size but what size case.
So I order the replacement bearings, 1mm ext and std journal.
The bearings turn up, All excited i start a dummy up of the engine and bingo, you dont need 2 measurements, you need three, the case thickness for the
thrust bearing.
If you machine the case to 1mm oversize, why on earth would you then machine the thrust surface and make that different.
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Joel
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 12:38 PM |
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Just part of the joys of dealing with 40+year old machinery that's been in the hands of god only knows how many "mechanics"
Hardly the engines fault.
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clinker42
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 12:51 PM |
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Oh I should add,
So now I need, 1mm oversize case, standard journal and .5mm oversize thrust.
Hmmm, I wonder if anyone has those bearings in stock. Nope, So now I have to grab another set of bearings, 1mm oversize case .25 oversize journal
and 1mm thrust.
Now machine down the thrust surface and then machine out the bearing journal diameter
Gee, im going to make money on this job lol
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type3lover
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 01:00 PM |
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Yeah it's a pita...i went through similar ages ago too...
No.1 main bearing has thrust faces on it to control crankshaft end float (and then the 3 shims in the right combo determine final end float).
I think you will also have to have the new bearing machined to fit the case...they don't just drop in unfortunately.
.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 01:18 PM |
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just because you're clueless in rebuilding a VW motor, doesn't mean they are crap 
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 vw54
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 02:52 PM |
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| Quote: |
why on earth would you then machine the thrust surface and make that different.
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it may of been hammered out and need machining b 4 ordering you should bolts case halfs together and do some measuring
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68AutoBug
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 posted on February 4th, 2011 at 03:08 PM |
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ANY NUMBER OF PEOPLE -NOT MECHANICS MAY HAVE WORKED ON THAT ENGINE
You don't know the history of the engine.....
anything could have been done to it....
VW engines are probably the most common engine to be overhauled or worked on by clueless people....
even on engines totally worn out....
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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clinker42
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 04:02 PM |
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Hhahah
Well done Craig ya wanker
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 04:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by clinker42
then machine out the bearing journal diameter
Gee, im going to make money on this job lol
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Its ok to machine the thrust face of a bearing, but you should NEVER try and machine the ID/OD of the bearing.
Firstly, the bearings have a coating that you are going to be machining away, and secondly you will never duplicate the accuracy and tolerances the
bearings have from the factory.
But good luck if you do decide to have a try 
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dogo
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 06:43 PM |
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Your'e just dumb! Check out your previous thread. I told you what you needed!
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=88479#pid824410
The list of things to check is endless, even if you are using all new parts.
I spent nearly all of the eighties working as an VW engine builder and even I learnt something new each day.
Listen. When you ask for help. Listen. Doh
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grumble
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 06:51 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
just because you're clueless in rebuilding a VW motor, doesn't mean they are crap
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If you don't understand the set up send the case and crank to a specialist who will set the bottom end up for you and then it is only a matter of
assembling it. You nwill be so far in front you won't believe it.good luck!
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 matberry
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 08:59 PM |
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Sorry your having trouble with our little VW engne.......guess the 'how to' thread is out of the question.. Sorry Clinker, couldn't resist.
As Craig said, unless you have an extremely well equipped machine shop, I wouldn't recommend machining any bearing on the journal diameter. Get the
correct bearings.
It's cases like this where a GOOD shop makes the difference.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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h
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 09:10 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
It's cases like this where a GOOD shop makes the difference.
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pretty much says it all really.. goodluck without one..
n the latter of the title mostly speaks for it's self.. mostly 
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clinker42
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 09:34 PM |
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It is amazing that people make comments about ones mech eng skills and equipment when they have no idea what a person does for a living and what he
has been doing for 20 years. For your info, I work in a shop that has everything needed not only to build engines but to make all the components for
engines and cars. I would bet that its a hell of a lot better equipment that you guys have ever seen. Its amazing, I spend my days building $75,000
engines that have tolerances that are a heck of a lot tighter than you guys would ever think about.
Oh and if I sit the bearing in one of our HAAS cnc lathes, I think I can get the runout as good as factory or if not better, after all, our machines
go to the 5th digit.
Also Dog, dont call me a dumbarse, I did read your post and then spent the next day phoning around australia for a set of bearings. Guess what, I
couldnt find a set a set of bearings. Boris had a set with the thick thurst face but they where a 1.5mm oversize. Oh but I as a dumarse I should have
realised that 1.5 over bearings will be a little sloppy in a 1mm over case.
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matberry
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 09:38 PM |
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Sloppy or is that tight???
You obviously do have the equipment available to you to fix the problem.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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clinker42
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 09:42 PM |
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Ok tight
Ps, for your info, the bearing is already machined out, Run out on the dial indicator was 0.0002. So i think that will be good enough. Also these
bearings are not coated
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matberry
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 09:46 PM |
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What bearings aren't coated? as in brand??
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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clinker42
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 09:52 PM |
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mahle and KS (euromax )
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matberry
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 10:06 PM |
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and they don't have the babbitt metal coating??? They normally do.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 10:12 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by clinker42
It is amazing that people make comments about ones mech eng skills and equipment when they have no idea what a person does for a living and what he
has been doing for 20 years.
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#1 Didn't measure the case properly (at all)
#2 Ordered the wrong bearings....twice.
#3 Not aware of the different thrust sizes
#4 Doesnt understand why the thrust surface on the case gets machined
and then brags that he is skilled............
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matberry
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 10:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
and then brags that he is skilled............
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Well he said he builds V8's.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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smithy68
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| posted on February 4th, 2011 at 11:26 PM |
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I think this is a case of 'stick to what you know'. I build and repair Honda motors and gearboxes for a living, but would never pretend to be an
expert with VW engines and gearboxes
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clinker42
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| posted on February 5th, 2011 at 07:47 AM |
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well there ya go Craig
you know everything hey
Second set of bearings i ordered was 1 mm oversize and std and 1 mm oversize. i recieved 1mm/std/.5mm
Now for your info, Bearings do not have a lead/babbit coating. The one piece bearings are all solid alloy. Only the two piece centre bearing is
coated. If you think Im wrong, go grab any of ya one piece bearings and scratch em to see if they are coated.
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matberry
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| posted on February 5th, 2011 at 10:06 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by clinker42
Second set of bearings i ordered was 1 mm oversize and std and 1 mm oversize. i recieved 1mm/std/.5mm
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I'd say the shop stuffed up there.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by clinker42
Now for your info, Bearings do not have a lead/babbit coating. The one piece bearings are all solid alloy. Only the two piece centre bearing is
coated. If you think Im wrong, go grab any of ya one piece bearings and scratch em to see if they are coated.
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Sorry but IMO thats bullocks
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 5th, 2011 at 11:50 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by clinker42
well there ya go Craig
you know everything hey
Second set of bearings i ordered was 1 mm oversize and std and 1 mm oversize. i recieved 1mm/std/.5mm
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So you ordered 1mm/std/1mm
and you recieved 1mm/std/.5mm..............wow now lets go back to the fist couple of post to see what you required for your motor........
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 5th, 2011 at 11:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by clinker42
Oh I should add,
So now I need, 1mm oversize case, standard journal and .5mm oversize thrust.
Hmmm, I wonder if anyone has those bearings in stock. Nope, So now I have to grab another set of bearings, 1mm oversize case .25 oversize journal
and 1mm thrust.
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WOW, look at that. The 1mm/std/.5mm bearings the shop sent you is what you needed in the first place
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h
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| posted on February 5th, 2011 at 12:26 PM |
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dogo
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| posted on February 5th, 2011 at 02:07 PM |
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Hey Clunker,
I only built one type of engine, VW. They weren't all fully reconditioned, most were rebuilds sold as secondhand motors. In the eighties, if you
drove a VW you would have been pidgeon holed as a "tight arse". I wouldn't mind a dollar for every owner who told me they bought a VW because
they're supposed to go forever, and then blame me because they never had it serviced, or even checked the oil, and the engine stopped working. Hence,
if parts were within acceptable tolerences, I would rebuild with new bearings, rings, exhaust valves, rear main seals and gaskets etc.
Fancey tools no matter how expensive, are a waste of money in the wrong hands. Any VW mechanic that has built enough engines doesnt even need a torque
wrench, because it's all in the hands, you get to know what things should feel like! I could adjust tappets without a feeler gauge, because you can
after time feel and hear by rocking the tappet what it should sound like. Imagine, a valve that has been pounded to a concave on the end. Using a
feeler guage that tappet is always going to be too loose and noisey, unless you adjust it by feel. I'm not saying I built engines this way, but when
you in the middle of the simpson desert and you drop a valve and every 4x4 driver is questioning you sanity, you would be amazed at what some people
can do with a hammer (or axe) Screw driver (forged tent peg) and a shifting spanner.
As I said in the previous thread, you learn something new everyday, that is unless your ego is telling you, you know it all ready!
Happy to send you my contact # if you need assistance.
Dave
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grumble
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| posted on February 5th, 2011 at 05:59 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by grumble
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
just because you're clueless in rebuilding a VW motor, doesn't mean they are crap
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If you don't understand the set up send the case and crank to a specialist who will set the bottom end up for you and then it is only a matter of
assembling it. You nwill be so far in front you won't believe it.good luck!
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Sorry didn't mean to upset you,I was only trying to assist as you were obviously in trouble. Unfortunately I agree with most of the guys regarding VW
engines,they are a specialist area and experience is the key. A lot of the guys trying to assist you have been doing these little engines for a long
time the same as I have.We grew up rebuilding these from the old 36hp to the waterboxer and actually enjoyed the experiences as a lot of these engine
have little peculiarities.I still send my cases & cranks out to machined,the shop then supplies bearings to suit. cheers
As I said previously good luck.
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