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 aussie260z
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| posted on May 4th, 2011 at 06:45 AM |
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Wheel Fitiment
Had a play around with my wheels the other day just trying to get a picture of backspacing, centre hole, etc to see what my options are in regards to
wheel fitiment on my bug.
Looks like a small positive offset and an ability to re-drill drums and disks to basically whatever PCD I want (Assuming I have blanks, which look
easy to come by).
Only issue I see is with the fronts, the centre hole (where your stub axle comes through the centre of the rotor) is 81mm, that is massive, if you are
going to a 5x114.5 PCD that would leave f-all meat on the rim between the stud holes and the centre hole.
So was wondering........
Anyone running a 5x114.5 PCD (or 4 x 114.5 PCD)?
Anyone running non-standard hubs with a smaller outter bearing so you have a smaller centre hole - I am assuming it is because the outter bearing is
rather large that contributes to such a wide centre opening in the rotor?
Anyone running custom hubs?
I have wide guards and a set of 17x8's lying around - Fitting them on the rears seems straight forward enough, with re-drilling a set of blank drums
or even just re-drilling a re-using 1 hole.
BUT............the only way I can see that you can do the front is by running a set of custom hubs with a small centre opening in order to run this
smaller PCD?
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STIDUB
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| posted on May 4th, 2011 at 08:48 AM |
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joel runs 4x100
im 5x114.3
others use 5x120/130
pretty sure one forum member mentioned they ran 5x112
the pcd isnt really a drama, finding wheels to fit over the dust cap and axle nut/split pin on the rear is the difficult bit!
falcon wheels seem to do the trick on mine, the centerbore is 70.1mm from memory, given the low offset of pre au models it gives you plenty of meat to
hide the cap/nut in -mind you everyones setups will be slightly different depending on hubs/discs/guards used - and if your the beam type, how far
someones narrowed it.
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STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
The above are personal views, no more, no less |
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Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on May 4th, 2011 at 08:57 AM |
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What wheel PCD is it? Remember VW is 4x130 so using one existing hole only works if you go to 5x130. Thats pretty large.Find the brake rotor you want
to use. Work out what options you have for PCD and then that will led you to available wheels...
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aussie260z
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| posted on May 4th, 2011 at 02:23 PM |
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| Quote: | finding wheels to
fit over the dust cap and axle nut/split pin on the rear is the difficult bit!rnfalcon wheels seem to do the trick on mine
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Yeah I know, that is the point of what I said in my post :-)!
| Quote: | falcon wheels seem
to do the trick on mine, the centerbore is 70.1mm from memory, given the low offset of pre au models it gives you plenty of meat to hide the cap/nut
in -mind you everyones setups will be slightly different depending on hubs/discs/guards used - and if your the beam type, how far someones narrowed
it.
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That is weird, because I do have a set of Falcon wheels, which have that centre opening of around 70 (I thought it was 69mm, but whatever) and I
measured the centre opening of the Beetle's rotor t 81mm...............Hence, when I tried putting my Pre-AU Falcon rims on it didn't fit, wouldn't
clear the centre cap.
| Quote: | What wheel PCD is
it? Remember VW is 4x130 so using one existing hole only works if you go to 5x130. Thats pretty large.Find the brake rotor you want to use. Work out
what options you have for PCD and then that will led you to available wheels...
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Sorry, my first post must not have been clear............PCD is largely irrelevant (Well sort of) as you just get a set of blank rotors and drill and
tap them to whatever PCD you want................finding a Rim with a centre opening of 81mm, 7" wide with a small positive offset is quite tricky
though.
So.............very interested to hear if folks have opened up their Pre-AU Falcon rims to slip over the centre of the bug rotor, or if alternative
16/17" rimms have been used (Without spacers) that use a more common PCD, 4x100, 4x114.3, 5x114.3 that allowed you to slip them over the centre cap.
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 4th, 2011 at 02:59 PM |
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Hi
I have 5x100s on my sons bug, I had to cutdown the wheel centring section and the grease cap outer part.
Steve
This photos shows 5x100 and the grease cap mod, not mine, I used blank rotors on my sons bug
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Joel
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| posted on May 4th, 2011 at 05:03 PM |
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As stidub mentioned I've got 4x100 on mine, stock disc on the front, originally stock rear drums but now discs.
With the front I run discs that don't have the hubcentric ring but all discs since 73 have this but like Steve's above that can be machined off.
I've had about 10 different sets of aftermarket rims on mine and all of them have fit but as mentioned its the center caps that are the problem.
Only the Speedy lite-7s I'm running now have cleared the rear axle nut.
Bearing dust caps on the front were only a problem with one set but that only took some light panel beating to fix.
With blanks you can go any PCD from 98mm outwards, 5x130 Porsche would be the biggest common size
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aussie260z
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| posted on May 4th, 2011 at 08:16 PM |
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Sweet :-)!!!
I was thinking custom hubs or spacers was the only way around this!
So either machine em down and re-drill for the PCD I want - like displayed............or buy a set of blank rotors and drill and tap them for the PCD
I want.
Can you buy blank rotors without the centering ring?
Found these, but they are drilled already.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-407-075
I have a nice of 17x8's in a 6p offset, which will a quick trial fit the other day seemed to fit my car perfectly - I have a widebody kit.
Might make steering at low speeds interesting though with 225 rubber on the front :-)!
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STIDUB
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| posted on May 4th, 2011 at 11:47 PM |
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^ tha above is the same wheel size as me, 2" wider guards, no issues with anything
as for steering, go 205 or 215's if you can
Volkswagen Drivers Club of Queensland - member
STIDUB - yep its still a work in progress
Vwdcq club car racing/ and crashing while my bug isn't finished.
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Joel
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| posted on May 5th, 2011 at 09:41 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by STIDUB
as for steering, go 205 or 215's if you can
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X2.
I've had 215 and 225 on the front of mine and I'll never go bigger than 205 now.
They're fine if your only on nice smooth city and motorway surfaces but on normal roads they tram-track like a mofo on uneven surfaces.
Even my Front engined daily does it with 215s, they follow the ruts in the road with so much rubber on the ground.
Even with a small sports steering wheel though steering is fine in a superbug.
Don't stress about the hubcentric ring, any machinest can easily spin that off.
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aussie260z
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| posted on May 5th, 2011 at 09:48 PM |
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I take it you fellows who have machined off this outta ring have never had a rotor failure?
Possible to re-drill and tap a 4x130 to 5x114.3 PCD?
Yeah, the 17x8's I have were on a 260Z which I did custom big brakes on and it used to follow every contour on the road, was pretty ordinary to drive
around town.............wheels look good though :-)!
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Joel
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| posted on May 6th, 2011 at 09:30 AM |
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As long as you don't let a 4 year old do up your wheel nuts you wont have a problem
As I mentioned the ring was only on brakes starting from 73, nothing before 72 had them, but all new discs and drums now have them and most have been
replaced after 40 years.
They're only there to help center the wheel abit better to prevent shudder.
I was just lucky to have a low mileage 72 beetle with barely worn brakes that I parted out so I didn't have to machine them off.
With redrilling to 5 stud, forget using the originals, buy some aftermarket blanks, as they have a uniform thickness hub.
THe original brakes front and rear have 4 strengthening ribs in the hub to pick up the stock 4x130 pattern.
Redrilling to 5 stud misses nearly all of these and goes through the thin material in between them
My black beetle had Porsche rims on it with redrilled 4 stud brakes.
You can see 3.5 holes out of 5 are through thin metal and have about 3 threads each.
No engineer would pass that.
Even press in studs is iffy because of how thin it is.
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Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on May 6th, 2011 at 10:36 AM |
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http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=87353&page=1#pid821028
This is a link to where you can get some quality rear hubs from.
Also i think when i was hunting around John Sherman said he custom makes his brake rotors so call him a he may be able to machine up some new hubs
with what ever PCD you need and might even have some offset options...
He was very helpful but a bit exy
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aussie260z
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| posted on May 6th, 2011 at 06:05 PM |
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Yeah noticed that ribbing for the rear Drums, so didn't look like an option to do a re-drill (adding new holes to the existing ones) or going to a
different stud pattern for the reasons you have outlined.
Guess I could pour weld into it and beef up the area.............but why bother when I can just go to a disc rear end and be supplied with blank
rotors that I can drill out to whatever PCD I want...............plus Drums suck :-)!
| Quote: | John Sherman said he
custom makes his brake rotors so call him a he may be able to machine up some new hubs with what ever PCD you need and might even have some offset
options...rnHe was very helpful but a bit exy
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Yes, gave him a call, and lots of good knowledge and all the bits and pieces I require, but as you said, quite expensive, $350 for 2 x front rotors
without centre-ring and drilled for 5x114.3 pcd.
But............can get a set of blank Front rotors out of the US out of the US at $40/pop, than just a get mate to drill me some holes on his mill and
I will press in some studs - ditch the Lug Nut screw in setup!
And a rear disc brake kit for $880, not CSP money, but quite a bit more expensive than other options.
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aussie260z
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| posted on July 8th, 2011 at 11:31 PM |
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| Quote: |
With redrilling to 5 stud, forget using the originals, buy some aftermarket blanks, as they have a uniform thickness hub. THe original brakes front
and rear have 4 strengthening ribs in the hub to pick up the stock 4x130 pattern. Redrilling to 5 stud misses nearly all of these and goes through
the thin material in between them My black beetle had Porsche rims on it with redrilled 4 stud brakes. You can see 3.5 holes out of 5 are through
thin metal and have about 3 threads each. No engineer would pass that. Even press in studs is iffy because of how thin it is.
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Joel - was looking at getting a set of front and rear rotors from CIP1, front rotors are without ribs, so re-drill to whatever.
Been advised the rears are 20mm thick, in the ribbed section this increases to 27.4mm - they have 5 ribs - when I asked what the "stock" stud
pattern was, they thought maybe 112mm (Certaintly not a 130mm pcd).
20mm sounds plenty thick enough if I am using studs?
| Quote: |
buy some aftermarket blanks
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I am thinking of just going with CIP1 for the aftermarket blanks - you recommend any body better mate?
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Joel
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| posted on July 8th, 2011 at 11:44 PM |
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Yeah that will be fine, you just have to decide whether you want to fit studs or use wheel bolts like original.
Theres a few places in aus that sell blanks so u just gotta work out if your saving that much buying over seas then havign to freight it here.
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aussie260z
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| posted on July 9th, 2011 at 11:55 PM |
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Should cost me under $700 for Rear Disc Brake Kit complete with Blank Rotors and a Set of Blank Front Rotors from CIP1, that is marginally cheaper
than buying it locally it seems.
However, when I order it from CIP1 I actually recieve what I order in about 4 days :-)!
Been waiting 2 weeks now for stuff from ClassicVeeDub, dude says stuff is on the way, then I call 3 days later and he says he is waiting on a part and
he will ship tomorrow...........No problems mate...............still waiting on my adjustable swing axles :-)!
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