| [ Total Views: 1003 | Total Replies: 17 | Thread Id: 92871 ] |
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 Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on September 27th, 2011 at 06:37 PM |
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Bleeding brand new brakes
Hi All,
I have had some issues bleeding my brand new brake calipers (fancy that empi brakes giving me issues.) However, i am determined to get the problem
solved and could do with your help.
all new empi calipers front and rear on 68 bug
I have a good amount of fluid at all calipers new master cylinder and new rubber lines. Made sure the steel lines were clear before i started.
Main problem is the caliper furthest away. It is the left rear. I doesnt want to bleed fluid at all. so i disconected hard line and made sure i have
plenty of fluid coming (i do) so hooked up an old line to the air compressor and gave it a good blast. Seemed a bit gummy at first, but then got food
air flow. Put line back on and got some where, but not great.
I am aware of the negative feedback about these rear calipers but want to atleast have a good amount of fluid running through. Do new calipers have
any gunk inside them? I'm thinking like an anticorrosive grime smeared over them at the factory? If so what is the best way to clean them? I have let
them sit (with fluid in them) for a week and will give it another go shortly however, do i need to take them off and give them a clean with
something?
The fronts seems a little gunky too... This isnt my first bleed job, i have stripped wheel cylinders before and found a good pedal and flow rate and
wondering if i need to do the same?
Hopefully not. Cheers in anticipation of your help
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grumble
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| posted on September 27th, 2011 at 06:53 PM |
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Obviously the answer to your question about gunk in the caliper has to be no,you say you have good fluid flow to the caliper,try crimping the other 3
lines with line locks and try to bleed that one caliper. If no success disconnect the steel tube at "t" piece,fill a clean squeeze bottle with fluid
and bleed the caliper with that then reconnect the steel line to the "t' piece. You should have a reasonable pedal. You will probably have to allow
for the pistons to work out of the fully in position.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on September 27th, 2011 at 07:16 PM |
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take the nipple write out and poke a bit of wire in the bleed hole and get some one to push brakes.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on September 27th, 2011 at 07:30 PM |
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so You still haven't gotten good flow???
to that rear caliper...
is that with the nipple screwed all the way out???
I remember Magnas had some sort of brake fluid grease on their rear disc brakes...
but it was compatible with the fluid...
if Brake fluid will squirt out that nipple hole then its a problem with the caliper...
try clearing the line again... You may have moved some junk and it may have blocked the line again...
How many bottles of brake fluid have You used..???
clean brake fluid coming out??
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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vwo60
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| posted on September 28th, 2011 at 10:40 AM |
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You can purchase a vacuum brake bleeder, i use one alll the time.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on September 28th, 2011 at 12:20 PM |
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have you tried taking the brake switches out to get rid of all the air?
main thing is, if everything is OK
the brake master cylinder must be below the calipers..
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Aussie Dubbin
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 01:41 PM |
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Still having grief blokes,
Now i have good flow but still cannot find good pedal?
I have filled the resivous a number of times and am starting to wonder if there is enough volume coming form the M/C? I have heard of people using the
BUS M/C as they bolt in... has anyone used the BUS m/C? got suggestions.
One thing i dont like about these empi calipers is that the bleed nipple is below the hard line input... does this sound weird to anyone else too? I
am considering taking caliper off and doing it held up in the air so i have a definate path for the air to escape...
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Sides
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 01:54 PM |
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I've found that a standard bug M/C is borderline for 4 wheel discs... they'll activate all 4 OK, but you have a really long (and soft) pedal.
Type 3 M/C I believe is better (larger pistons internally, so it moves more fluid for the amount the pedal travels), and then Type 2 (bus) better
again.
With the bleed nipple, well it should be the highest point the fluid galleries of a caliper... otherwise you won't get all the air out... period. And
obviously any air in there will stuff your pedal feel.
Any chance you've put the calipers on the wrong side... as in if you switch them around, will the bleed nipple be on top ???
Finally, bleeding the whole system from scratch will take A LOT of fluid... like up to a liter or possibly more with stock'o calipers... even more
for big calipers (my 944T system took about 1.5 liters I think)
Also you need to bleed them in the correct order... LR, then RR, then LF, then RF.
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Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 02:00 PM |
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Ooops - comes across as a bit of a rant hey... it's not meant to be, just obviously I've had too much caffeine !!!
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
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grumble
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 05:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
I've found that a standard bug M/C is borderline for 4 wheel discs... they'll activate all 4 OK, but you have a really long (and soft) pedal.
Type 3 M/C I believe is better (larger pistons internally, so it moves more fluid for the amount the pedal travels), and then Type 2 (bus) better
again.
With the bleed nipple, well it should be the highest point the fluid galleries of a caliper... otherwise you won't get all the air out... period. And
obviously any air in there will stuff your pedal feel.
Any chance you've put the calipers on the wrong side... as in if you switch them around, will the bleed nipple be on top ???
Finally, bleeding the whole system from scratch will take A LOT of fluid... like up to a liter or possibly more with stock'o calipers... even more
for big calipers (my 944T system took about 1.5 liters I think)
Also you need to bleed them in the correct order... LR, then RR, then LF, then RF.
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We tend to do that when trying to explain to someone and you aren't sure whether they will understand how you have described the process.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 05:21 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Aussie Dubbin
Still having grief blokes,
Now i have good flow but still cannot find good pedal?
One thing i dont like about these empi calipers is that the bleed nipple is below the hard line input... does this sound weird to anyone else too? I
am considering taking caliper off and doing it held up in the air so i have a definate path for the air to escape...
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as SAID..
the bleeders , Have to be at the TOP so the air can get out...
and it takes a lot of brake fluid... bottles of the stuff...
once You start replacing master cylinders etc....
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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ian.mezz
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 06:18 PM |
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nipples should be at top ??
But 54 oval bugs have nipples at thw botom and you bleed then with a bit of vacuum hose fitted to nipple and other end in a half filled clear ,bottle
of brake fluid . open bleeder nipple and pump about 6 times as it pumps the air out it can olny suck brake fluid back in. uno wat i mean.
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Aussie Dubbin
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 07:56 PM |
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Cheers guys, no don't worry it all makes sense, i'm with you about the air inside, they are marked L and R so i might take a pic and show you guys
what i am talking about... i have already gone through a bottle and a half, as i have heard that it might take two litres with a new system,,,
i am considering
taking them off and holding them up to get the nipple in a better position,
Adding a residual pressure valve in the rear (2lb) to aid the piston/pad staying closer to the disc
or last resort
buying a bus master cylinder/ any advise or a part number here would be very helpful (with or without a residual pressure valve internally please)
does this change peal effort or increase piston effect?/both?
i am thinking i should be able to get a result, i have considered cutting the disc down and doing a ford EA rear caliper conversion, but prior i
should e able to get somewhere...
Chers guys will post a pic up soon
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ian.mezz
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 08:10 PM |
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here are my oval empi brakes and they work fine and easy to fit on .
nipple at top/
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ian.mezz
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 08:13 PM |
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if you clamp offall the rubber brake hoses and the master cylinder is good you will have a rock hard pedal.
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Aussie Dubbin
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 08:52 PM |
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not having any hose clamps, what do you suggest?
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on October 11th, 2011 at 10:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Aussie Dubbin
not having any hose clamps, what do you suggest?
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You can buy brake hose clamps [special tools]
or use VICE Grips ... You would need 4 pair... lol [4]
just hang the calipers up high with clear hose and bottle of fluid as is normal...
and do in the sequence that Dave suggested ...
leave the bleeder open for 1/2 an hour or so...
all the air show slowly come to the top and into the jar...
Last resort... push fluid thru with pressure..
and it IS common to have these issues..lol
and stock up with brake fluid... lol
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Imac
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| posted on October 15th, 2011 at 06:52 AM |
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I through away a Chinese dual circuit MC about a month ago after tring to bleed it for a couple of days for the third time. Replaced with german
problem solve in comarison it was like it bleed it's self.
PS I use ball bearings in the joins to blank off lines.
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