| [ Total Views: 945 | Total Replies: 25 | Thread Id: 9297 ] |
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 Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
Fahrvergnugen
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 posted on August 12th, 2003 at 08:34 AM |
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Rattle Guns
So I was going to rotate my wheels on the weekend. But I couldn't get some of the wheel nuts to budge. I got a big long scaffolding pipe and
put it over my 19mm ring spanner, but it just bent the spanner :o
What if I had to change a flat tyre at the side of a highway, 100kms from anywhere??? I'd be stuck!
So I've painted some words on all my wheel rims (the hubcaps hide it) to tell all mechanics not to use those f#$%ing rattle guns. It's now
a Rule for my kombi.
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
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Bugged Again
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 08:40 AM |
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try using a decent wheel spanner, might work a bit better |
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Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 08:41 AM |
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If you mean a cross-shaped wheel brace, that's what I tried first.
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
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 Bizarre
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The artist formerly known as blue74l
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 08:47 AM |
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If the monkey can't do up a wheel properly do you really think he can read??? 
They should leave those things to the race track
[Edited on 11-8-2003 by blue74l]
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 08:49 AM |
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hehe I've just realised how monkey wrenches got their name :P
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
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pyr0
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 08:56 AM |
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you could always try a truck socket set :P i had use one of them once to get one of my wheel nuts off
Founding member of the C'town Rat-Pack
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Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 09:02 AM |
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Better spanners, bigger socket sets, longer levers... and then BANG I'll just break a stud.
The point is that I should be able to change a wheel at the roadside with a normal wheel brace.
That's why rattle guns are now banned on my kombi.
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
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bus914
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 09:39 AM |
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been there
sux doesn't it. best let them loosen it. :puke worst thing is, the bolts can break!!
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 helbus
A.k.a.: Pete S
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 09:51 AM |
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It's not the rattle guns that are the problem, it's the idiots driving them...
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vw54
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 10:34 AM |
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Rattle guns should be burnt
I use a impact socket 1/2 " drive 19mm only single hex or six sides not a 12 sides socket and a knuckle bar about 15" long.... never had
a problem
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oval TOFU
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 11:37 AM |
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funny that, the monkeys driving the rattle guns tighten the F%^ out of the wheel nuts so i cant get them off without more torque than my engine can
output, but the last time they tighened my rear axel nuts, i could simply take them off (by myself) with a long armed ratchet (with the 36mm socket of
course) .... mmm bloody monkeys :cussing
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
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Andy
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 01:10 PM |
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I always take my wheels in separate, the tire mobs don't go near my cars 
As for locked wheel nuts, while you've got them off (I assume you have succeeded?) CLEAN the back of the rim, the outside face of the drum, the
nuts, the studs and where the studs sit on the rim. Make sure they are rust free. (Basically all contact points).
Then smoother them with something like never seize. You'll be glad the next time you take the rims off.
Also for the Kombi, I make a point of removing the drums whenever the rim is off and clean & grease the spigot the drum sits on the hub with. They
rust up and you can't get the drums off!!
:thumb
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 02:56 PM |
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I've had tyre places strip the threads out of brand new brake drums once...... not happy Jan !!!!
I agree - never needs to be tighter than you can get with a wheel brace.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 05:33 PM |
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if you put never seize on all the contacting surfaces of the nut, and on the threads, all your problems will magically disappear.
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vwmachine
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 09:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Purple Martin
So I was going to rotate my wheels on the weekend. But I couldn't get some of the wheel nuts to budge. I got a big long scaffolding pipe and
put it over my 19mm ring spanner, but it just bent the spanner :o
What if I had to change a flat tyre at the side of a highway, 100kms from anywhere??? I'd be stuck!
So I've painted some words on all my wheel rims (the hubcaps hide it) to tell all mechanics not to use those f#$%ing rattle guns. It's now
a Rule for my kombi.
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Why blame some-body else for your mistake, wrong tool for the job, rattle guns are fine when used correctly.
Vws have a locking taper on the nut/wheel so they tend to lock on, better than falling off !!
If you ocassionally remove the nuts with the correct tools , you will be able to get them off in an emergency, even with basic tools.
How long has it been since those bus rims have been removed ?
Don't blame the tyre fitter for your lack of vw know how.
Tah
Rolly |
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 12th, 2003 at 10:40 PM |
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Ned, you should also let other people touch your nuts, trust me
Just get them to be gentle, and not so rough.
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Purple Martin
A.k.a.: Martin
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| posted on August 13th, 2003 at 11:05 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwmachine
If you ocassionally remove the nuts with the correct tools , you will be able to get them off in an emergency, even with basic tools.
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So what are the correct tools? The first thing I tried was a normal wheel-brace - isn't that the correct tool for loosening a wheel nut?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwmachine
How long has it been since those bus rims have been removed ?
Don't blame the tyre fitter for your lack of vw know how.
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You're right that I have a lack of VW know-how. That's why I take my kombi to a vintage VW specialist for stuff that's beyond my
capabilities. The last time they took the front wheels off and put them back on was a few months ago. So yes I am blaming the guy who tightened the
nuts, he's supposed to know how to do it properly, and I'm supposed to be able to get the nuts off in an emergency with the correct tool
(I'm looking forward to you telling me what that is if it's not a normal wheel brace).
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Ned Flanders
the only person who touches my nuts is myself.
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Being the only person who touches my wheel nuts would be fine if I was a VW expert who knew how to do everything, but I'm not and sometimes I
have no choice but to take it to a professional.
I envy you guys who already have years of experience and knowledge and can do everything yourselves. I've only had my kombi for less than a year
and I've still got heaps to learn.
1959 red & white Beetle
1975 Kombi camper
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mnsKmobi
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| posted on August 13th, 2003 at 03:13 PM |
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I had the same problem as Purple Martin. On every other car I've owned I've had no problems getting the wheel nuts off with a cross-brace -
even after they've been got at with a rattle gun. With my kombi I had to heat each nut with a mini blow torch and spray WD40 on the thread while
it's hot. Then by pushing on the crossbrace with one leg I eventually got them undone.
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modulus
A.k.a.: Peter Hill
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| posted on August 13th, 2003 at 03:51 PM |
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I think that there is a real problem with inadequate training and supervision in tyre shops and a heap of other "mechanical, but not qualified
mechanic" roles.
I recently had two new tyres fitted. I knew that it was going to be difficult when the yokel started into removing the hubcaps by hitting a
screwdriver with a vernier caliper (presumably the hammers at this place are used for fine measurement).
Despite requesting minimal tightening, when finished I could not come close to loosening the nutsa with a cross brace; I returned and got them to
loosen all and I then tightened to the book-spec. ~94 ft. lb. with the cross brace.
I estimate that the nuts were originally rattled on to well over 150 ft. lb. This is not a "good" or cautious setting; it is overtightening
and may cause premature stud failure; whilst Wes's suggestion about "never sieze" is worthwhile, I still can't swing 200 ft. lb.
on a cross brace .
Just my $0.02.
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KOM123
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| posted on August 14th, 2003 at 12:06 AM |
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I've had the opposite experience, took the Kombi in to a well known tyre chain a couple of months ago and amongst other things had the wheels
swapped around and balanced.
Later that afternoon was driving down the Great Western Highway and heard a strange noise. Pulled over and took a look and BOTH wheels on the
passenger side hadn't been tightened!!!
With my 20 month old in the back you can bet I wasn't happy thinking about what could have happened
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Ray65432
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| posted on October 7th, 2003 at 01:16 PM |
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wheel nuts
just listen to modulus i am not a vw expert altho i own a kombi i am a mechanic wheel nuts dont have to be as tight as u think 94 ft lb is not
that tight a light smear of never seize & the right tension & no problem i believe most tyre fitters over use the rattle guns the rattle
gun should son the nut down firm then final tightening should be with a hand brace or possably a tention wrench good luck & enjoy your VW
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fuz
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| posted on October 9th, 2003 at 08:44 PM |
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when i first bought this bug i have atm i could not remove one wheel out of four.. then i realised it was the only one that had been recently changed
by some confident capital B kid.. so i know that overtightening is annoying and i feel your pain.. i had to use a super long handled socket with a
inch quarter pipe around it.. sucks huh
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KruizinKombi
A.k.a.: Col
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| posted on October 9th, 2003 at 11:04 PM |
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I always have a 5' length of RHS handy that I can use as an extension handle. I've twisted the cross-brace a couple of times using it, but
I've found that the same handle will also fit over my Kingchrome 1/2" drive ratchet, which is much stronger than the cross-brace. If I
can't undo the nuts with the cross-brace alone, I now swap to the ratchet and handle. :thumb
I've been using anti-seize since Wes suggested it months ago, and it works. :thumb I was a bit disappointed with it at first, until I realised
that the threads are a friction surface too, and need the treatment just like the locating face. I find that the 5' handle is now overkill, but
its great for working on other people's cars!
Kruizin Kol
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*did*
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| posted on October 9th, 2003 at 11:52 PM |
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on Ludwig III we dont use the rattle gun to tighten the bolts because we are scared of breaking studs. i dont think it is a good idea to use them.
hmm, that spanner does look pretty flimsy
good VW mechanics should know better or know how to use a rattle gun and not cause trouble.
obviously apprentices at tyre places dont have the slightest idea about how much of a pain in the ass it is when you break a stud, when will they
know?... all in good time my friends!!! |
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70AutoStik
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| posted on October 10th, 2003 at 08:02 PM |
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The correct torque is over 90ft-lbs on a VW, but my rattle gun is capable of producing 230! There are rattle guns on which you can set the torque,
but I've never seen one in a regular tyre shop in about the last 10-15 years. BTW - the rattle guns you see used by pit-crews are the
torque-limited type and are usually set to no more than 35ft-lbs (alloy rims, you see.)
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amazer
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kombi pilot
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| posted on October 11th, 2003 at 12:17 AM |
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This thread is exactly why you shouldnt be allowed to bag an business on the forum. Its nobody's fault that your wheel nuts are stuck. It happens
on its own. I dont own a rattle gun. I certainly dont drive my fastback with the soft race tyres down to a tyre fitting shop. But I have twisted the
odd wheel brace. See how many people have said their wheel nuts have locked on? maybe its time for an apology.
Theres a simple fix. Go buy yourself some never seize. Go to a tyre place and ask them to crack the wheelnuts for you with their rattle gun. Put the
neverseize on. Then you can do them up with your own wheelbrace. I'd be surprised if they charged you more than $5. I know the tyre place near me
does rotations for $10.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
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