| [ Total Views: 1387 | Total Replies: 28 | Thread Id: 93083 ] |
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 68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on October 8th, 2011 at 12:16 PM |
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water in My sump ?????? How???? OIL SUMP-MAXI FILTER
Oddest thing just happened
I unscrewed the drain plug in My sump plug and about half a cup of clear water came out
before the oil...
I have an extra sump with a finer strainer in there
OIL SUMP -MAXI FILTER - CB PERFORMANCE--
it looks like half the extra sump was filled with water??????
Never ever seen that...
where did the water come from????
I haven't driven the car for about 5 days..
If I had been quick enough I could have put the drain plug back in.. but wasn't expecting clear water to be pouring over My fingers??
anyone ever have this experience????
How did water get into My engine oil?????
LEE
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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HappyDaze
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| posted on October 8th, 2011 at 02:27 PM |
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Every time you open the engine lid, [for example, to take a photo of the engine], a small amount of water sneaks into the engine.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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Joel
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| posted on October 8th, 2011 at 02:27 PM |
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Lee you just need to rev it harder than 1200rpm 
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Sides
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| posted on October 8th, 2011 at 03:14 PM |
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Weather been cold and/or humid lately down your way Lee ???
Unless you've been pouring water into the oil it's gonna be coming from condensation... presumably your engine just hasn't been getting hot enough
to boil the water out into that mayonaise'y type gunk you often get on the oil filler cap.
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empi
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| posted on October 8th, 2011 at 04:12 PM |
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Do u have a lock on your engine lid? was it locked?
Which neighbour have you pissed off?
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on October 8th, 2011 at 04:43 PM |
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i remember reading ages ago Lee that you barely do any kilometres?
is this correct?
how long since your last oil change? if its been sitting with slight weather exposure, and you change your oil based on km's rather than on a time
basis (like every 6 months), all those wet mornings with condensation and due everywhere during winter would have happened to your donk as well.
i guess as it feel into teh oil, the oil prevented the droplets from evaporating to atmosphere naturally, and this it just built up over time.
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RISKY4LIFE
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| posted on October 8th, 2011 at 07:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
Lee you just need to rev it harder than 1200rpm
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love it
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 12:29 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
Weather been cold and/or humid lately down your way Lee ???
Unless you've been pouring water into the oil it's gonna be coming from condensation... presumably your engine just hasn't been getting hot enough
to boil the water out into that mayonaise'y type gunk you often get on the oil filler cap.
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Well
I've come to the conclusion that the water must have been in an opened container of oil????
and there was No mayo under the lid this time???
sometimes there is a lot there..
and I have been doing short runs the past couple of months
with the engine not getting to the normal temperature..
but this was just like a half a glass of clear water...
luckily it was in the extra sump and not mixed up.. or being pushed thru.. the engine etc..
My engine lid isn't locked.. I usually only lock it when I go away... and it has been parked out in the street more than usual lately... until I
put it away.. late at night..
I haven't connected the switch in the engine compartment to the alarm yet..
so, the second conclusion... someone has poured in some water?? sounds a big strange though...??
if water was poured into the oil...
how long would it take to go to the bottom into the extra sump???
Joel,
I have been doing 3000rpm and higher as i sorted out My problem with the SVDA Bosch dissy...
I must have undone the throttle cable at some time and hadn't pushed the cable in far enough.....
so, recently, I pushed the cable thru the cylinder about an extra 20mm and YIKES..
it made all the difference... I wasn't getting enough vacuum
into the distributor... so it now goes like a rocket... lol
so, I do like to accelerate a bit now...lol
cheers
Lee
,
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RISKY4LIFE
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| posted on October 9th, 2011 at 10:26 AM |
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dont the extra sump have a extra pick up??
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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 posted on October 9th, 2011 at 11:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by RISKY4LIFE
don't the extra sump have a extra pick up??
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the extra sump is a small cb performance one that has a much finer gauze strainer in it...
the pickup isn't any longer...
it seems the strainer may have been full of water???
LEE
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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DubCrazy
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 07:01 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by HappyDaze
Every time you open the engine lid, [for example, to take a photo of the engine], a small amount of water sneaks into the engine.
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lol!!!
steff.........
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!
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chillihilli
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 12:10 PM |
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Lee, didn't you recently have a problem with your engine running hot? When did you change the oil last? I wonder if these are related ? Would water
in your oil cause the engine to run hot? Also, the bottom of the sump is where it would logically collect, given oil floats.
71 Clementine Superbug Autostick
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vlad01
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 12:49 PM |
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Maybe the engine doesn't want anymore photos taken?? no camera please!, no camera please!.
Or did Lee wash it too much?
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 02:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by chillihilli
Lee, didn't you recently have a problem with your engine running hot? When did you change the oil last? I wonder if these are related ? Would water
in your oil cause the engine to run hot? Also, the bottom of the sump is where it would logically collect, given oil floats.
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Hi
I thought water would go to the bottom but going thru all that oil .. and NOT being mixed with the oil I thought strange..
I hadn't driven the car for a while - week or more -
and I change the oil every 1-2 thousand klms...
or whenever it looks black... lol
car hasn't been in the weather either...
there wasn't any water in the oil...
LEE
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greedy53
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 05:06 PM |
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water in oil is usually the result of not driving it much an every day motor will heat the oil and get the water away as steam
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 05:06 PM |
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well no more water than what poured out of the filter housing/sump
Lee
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 05:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
Maybe the engine doesn't want anymore photos taken?? no camera please!, no camera please!.
Or did Lee wash it too much?
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cars are made to be cleaned Vlad outside and outside of engine.
the water was ONLY inside the oil strainer...
was a shock to see clear water come out the sump plug...
wasn't mixed with the oil..??
I did top up with some GTX which had 2009 on the bottle..
use it in My lawn mower.. I used GTX2 usually..
but no longer made.. but I always look at the oil as I pour it too...??
LEE
PS: don't You guys ever take pics of Your engines??? lol 
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Matt Ryan
A.k.a.: Matt Ryan
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 11:00 PM |
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Lee,
Stop panicking, It's perfectly normal to accumulate water in your oil due to condensation. Usually it boils off with sufficient running at full
operating temperatures.
Naturally, if you have been doing shorter trips less often, as you have been during the cold Scone winter (more condensation) you will accumulate a
bit more H2o than usual.
Oil and water DON'T mix, that milky substance is water mixed with the crud (including [mostly] oil detergents) in the oil not the oil itself. You
change your oil too regularly to get much crap in it. "Mayo" is actually water mixed with detergent that has trapped oil and crud in it. Try washing
a fatty frying pan under a tap. You can see the oil and water as separate objects. Remove the pan from the water, add some washing up detergent, mix
it around and you will see it goes milky. This is because the detergent allows the oil, meat crud and the small amount of water left to blend.
You have just had a series of co-incidences that resulted in a bigger than usual build up. Given it was a week or so since you last drove it, the
water had plenty of time to settle out to the bottom. As stated in an earlier reply, "oil floats on water".
How are the insides of your pre-heat tubes? Is your thermostat bellows ok? Are your shroud flaps there, and working properly?
If you can answer yes to all those, then during the cooler months, you just need to spend a bit more time warming up in the driveway, take the scenic
route to your destination and back, or just go around the block a few times before parking up at home.
The extended sump has done you a favour by separating all that water out of your oil. It must have been a shock to see that much come out. If you had
done your oil change in another month or so, when the ambient temperatures (and you're enthusiasm to go for a drive) are higher, you would probably
have found bugger-all water.
You should have come over for the event at Comboyne, that would have sorted things out
Regards,
Matt.
Ps. I really loved the reply about the water sneaking in every time you take another picture of the engine!
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 11:33 PM |
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Hi Matt
well the inlet manifold is a replacement in good order
the flaps are open all the time as I don't have a thermostat fitted {I do have a new mexican type but never fitted it..]
the oil doesn't go thru the external oil cooler until the oil gets hot or thin and flows thru the system... via the relief valve...
so the oil doesn;'t get hot driving around town..
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Matt Ryan
A.k.a.: Matt Ryan
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| posted on October 10th, 2011 at 11:55 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
Hi Matt
well the inlet manifold is a replacement in good order
the flaps are open all the time as I don't have a thermostat fitted {I do have a new mexican type
but never fitted it..]
the oil doesn't go thru the external oil cooler until the oil gets hot or thin and flows thru the system... via the relief valve...
so the oil doesn;'t get hot driving around town..
cheers
LEE
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Hi Lee,
So, until you fit a thermostat, it looks like the scenic routes for you in winter from now on, or at least don't set off for a run until the heater
is ready to be turned down!
I know it gets pretty hot 'round your way in summer but once the thermostat has done it's job and got the engine up to normal operating temp that's
it. Then, if it's working properly the flaps are opened and it can't possibly make your engine run any hotter.
If you fit that Mexican one, be sure to check it regularly, because when they fail, they fail leaving the flaps in the closed position, which
will cook your engine. The original "bellows" design is made to fail with the flaps in the open position, which only leaves
you in the state you are in now ie: condensation build up, not engine death.
Regards,
Matt.
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 07:47 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Matt Ryan
Lee,
Stop panicking, It's perfectly normal to accumulate water in your oil due to condensation. Usually it boils off with sufficient running at full
operating temperatures.
Naturally, if you have been doing shorter trips less often, as you have been during the cold Scone winter (more condensation) you will accumulate a
bit more H2o than usual.
Oil and water DON'T mix, that milky substance is water mixed with the crud (including [mostly] oil detergents) in the oil not the oil itself. You
change your oil too regularly to get much crap in it. "Mayo" is actually water mixed with detergent that has trapped oil and crud in it. Try washing
a fatty frying pan under a tap. You can see the oil and water as separate objects. Remove the pan from the water, add some washing up detergent, mix
it around and you will see it goes milky. This is because the detergent allows the oil, meat crud and the small amount of water left to blend.
You have just had a series of co-incidences that resulted in a bigger than usual build up. Given it was a week or so since you last drove it, the
water had plenty of time to settle out to the bottom. As stated in an earlier reply, "oil floats on water".
How are the insides of your pre-heat tubes? Is your thermostat bellows ok? Are your shroud flaps there, and working properly?
If you can answer yes to all those, then during the cooler months, you just need to spend a bit more time warming up in the driveway, take the scenic
route to your destination and back, or just go around the block a few times before parking up at home.
The extended sump has done you a favour by separating all that water out of your oil. It must have been a shock to see that much come out. If you had
done your oil change in another month or so, when the ambient temperatures (and you're enthusiasm to go for a drive) are higher, you would probably
have found bugger-all water.
You should have come over for the event at Comboyne, that would have sorted things out
Regards,
Matt.
Ps. I really loved the reply about the water sneaking in every time you take another picture of the engine!
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x2. Except I think that extended sump is not a good idea.
An oil pickup should draw from the bottom of the sump to have access to the coolest oil when running hot.
It should also draw any moisture collected in the sump through with the oil and heat it up and drive it off as vapour. Which it cannot do 'cos it's
collected too far down.
What's the deal with that little jam tin thingy anyway? What's it do?
I'd take it off before I wiped it off on something!
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Gracey
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 08:18 PM |
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As said by Lucky Phil above, your problem is the fact that the extended sump doesn't have a pickup tube so it's not drawing oil from the lowest part
of the sump, thus allowing the water to collect and not get burnt off.
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
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| posted on October 11th, 2011 at 10:17 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Matt Ryan
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
Hi Matt
well the inlet manifold is a replacement in good order
the flaps are open all the time as I don't have a thermostat fitted {I do have a new mexican type
but never fitted it..]
the oil doesn't go thru the external oil cooler until the oil gets hot or thin and flows thru the system... via the relief valve...
so the oil doesn;'t get hot driving around town..
cheers
LEE
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Hi Lee,
So, until you fit a thermostat, it looks like the scenic routes for you in winter from now on, or at least don't set off for a run until the heater
is ready to be turned down!
I know it gets pretty hot 'round your way in summer but once the thermostat has done it's job and got the engine up to normal operating temp that's
it. Then, if it's working properly the flaps are opened and it can't possibly make your engine run any hotter.
If you fit that Mexican one, be sure to check it regularly, because when they fail, they fail leaving the flaps in the closed position, which
will cook your engine. The original "bellows" design is made to fail with the flaps in the open position, which only leaves
you in the state you are in now ie: condensation build up, not engine death.
Regards,
Matt.
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Hi Mat
that is one reason I havent fitted the mexican thermostat as yet...
I have the flaps with the spring pulling them open...
I also have another external oil cooler... which I'm hoping will work much better than the last one...
My thought now are...
I sometimes use a 1 litre oil bottle that I refill and squeeze to
put the oil into the engine... until the 5 litre container is easy to pour...
I'm wondering whether somehow one of these got water in them???? and I didn't see it?????
although I am very careful...
I do normally drive about 30klms on the highway every week or couple of weeks.. but I didn't this time for nearly a month..
I have been running this extra sump/filter since early 2006..
Lee
PS: also had a LOT of rainy days the past couple of months..
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on October 12th, 2011 at 07:21 PM |
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Okay, lets explore the concept of condensation.
Warm,moist air meets cold. Water droplets form.(Rain, cold beer glass etc. etc.)
Lee drives home and parks. His crankcase is full of warm moist air. Here's the thing.
As the walls of the crankcase cool, droplets of water form on the sides (remember the cold beer glass?).
As the air cools and shrinks, more moisture laden air is drawn in adding to the problem.
Being heavier than oil, they sink into the dark depths of his jamjar acessory, where they add up, and leap out unepectedly as a cup of water,
and frighten the bejeezus out of him.
And not just the crankcase. Where do you think the rust comes from in fueltanks?
I wouldnt worry about your oil topup bottle. You would see the water, and anyway, where would it come from?
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
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| posted on October 12th, 2011 at 07:25 PM |
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Looks like You have the answer Lucky Phil...
I know about condensation but never ever thought it would end up as clear water in My engine...
You never stop learning...
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Lucky Phil
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on October 12th, 2011 at 07:48 PM |
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One thing I am still unclear on, though, is what this accessory is supposed to achieve?
The only thing I can think of is in an application where water may get in the engine.
This would then allow the water to sink away from the pickup and not get drawn into the oil pump.
Which is exactly what happened.
It's a water seperator!!!!!
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
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Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
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| posted on October 12th, 2011 at 09:43 PM |
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oil sump - Maxi Filter
its also a very good strainer/filter...
which is what it is....
I know a fellow who uses motorbike oil filters inside instead of the finer gauze filter...
Lee
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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Gracey
Wolfsburg Wizard
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| posted on October 12th, 2011 at 10:59 PM |
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Think about it, if clear water is collecting there do you really think it's filtering anything??
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vlad01
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
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| posted on October 14th, 2011 at 01:29 PM |
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A filter of that type should always be fitted on the high pressure side of the pump, on the pick up side it will get cavitation and thus reducing and
can even stop oil supply.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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