| [ Total Views: 2059 | Total Replies: 29 | Thread Id: 95014 ] |
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 SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 03:32 PM |
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Tuning EMPI 34's
Hey all!
I finally got Zelda started, with all the parts attached and everything. I got her around the block by just taking my foot slowly off the clutch...
Every single time I put my foot on the accelerator, the engine sounded like she was going to cut out, as if the carbs were flooding and what not.
I only just installed a dual EMPI 34 setup as people are probably aware. Now, they need to be tuned very much so as you can probably tell from my
experience above. I'm going to assume it is just a tuning issue, but I can't rule out something else.
But, what I need to know is, how does one actually tune them?
If I can get them tuned enough to actually drive her to get the engine looked over by someone else then I should be all good.
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Smiley
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 03:54 PM |
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First think before tuning the carbies is to make sure that your points gap and timing are set correctly. And do a valve set on the engine.
You want to make sure that everything on the engine is set right before you start messing around with the carbs. Cause if something is out of
adjustment then it's going to throw your carbs out too.
I'm not sure how the Solexs differ from the Kadrons as they are the only duel carbies that I've tuned.
With the Kadrons you remove the linkage, set your idle so it's running evenly on both carbies. Then adjust your mixture.
Smiley 
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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 Bizarre
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 04:33 PM |
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http://www.redlineweber.com/html/Tech/34_ICT_tunning.htm
http://cbperformance.com/weberict.asp
Futue te ipsum!!!
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 05:27 PM |
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Alrighty,
After removing the old vacuum advance distributor and putting in one without it, getting all the timing done correctly to 7.5 degrees and firing order
correct, this is how she's running.
I uploaded another video, you can see it here.
I haven't tried tuning them yet Bizarre, but thanks a lot for the links! Will definitely see what I can do, just need to be able to get her drivable
and then I can get her to a mechanic to get a look over... Her oil needs to be changed as well. Could this have any reason as to why she's running so
terrible?
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Bizarre
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 05:41 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by SebastienPeek
... Her oil needs to be changed as well. Could this have any reason as to why she's running so terrible?
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Oil has nothing to do with it
That is tuning.
You sure you have no air leaks on the manifolds?
Are they black paper or the crushed metal sort??
have you balanced the carbs yet? Set mixture screws?
Set the linkage up?
Futue te ipsum!!!
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 05:46 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
Oil has nothing to do with it
That is tuning.
You sure you have no air leaks on the manifolds?
Are they black paper or the crushed metal sort??
have you balanced the carbs yet? Set mixture screws?
Set the linkage up?
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Manifolds had gaskets put on first and then bolted on tight, same with the carb to manifold bolts as well. They were the metal sort.
By balancing the carbs, what do you mean?
I haven't touched the mixture screws either.
The linkage however, is attached. This could be the problem in itself, as when putting my foot on the accelerator, either too much petrol is going in
or I am cutting off the petrol supply completely... Could be a possibility?
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Bizarre
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 06:02 PM |
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from the CB site
"Make sure to use the gaskets supplied in this kit. They work a lot better that thin paper gaskets or steel gaskets"
The steel ones leak. They are crap.
By balance I mean 2 things
The mixtures and idles speed screws need to be set.
This is done with the linkage disconnected
Then you need to make sure the linkeage opens equally
It is all explained in the CB link
Futue te ipsum!!!
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 09:07 PM |
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Thanks Bizarre, just read through the CB link in more depth, only glanced over it before.
The steel ones will have to do unfortunately. I don't have the time to get the carbs out and the manifolds out to get to replacing them.
It might be something that I can do once I actually get the car moving a bit more...
I did however take her out for a quick spin around the block again, this time after timing her and everything, she definitely ran a lot smoother.
I was able to accelerate, but it was causing her to splutter and all types of things, so I just eased off the clutch and let her roll. So glad I
don't live where any hills are...
Will take a look at everything tomorrow evening, too dark now and have to go to work tomorrow so won't be able to give it a shot till tomorrow night
sometime.
There definitely isn't much room in the engine bay with those carbs on, I can only imagine how tricky it would be with some big Kadrons or Webers in
there...
As for the balance tubes that are mentioned on the CB link, my manifolds that I have don't actually have anything that would cater for such a thing.
I'm going to assume then, that this isn't applicable for the EMPI remakes of the Webers. Tomorrow night I'll take off the linkage and just get the
carbs to the exact same. Then work from there.
From what I can gather from the CB link, it is definitely a time consuming procedure and will be worth every hour spent doing the tuning. If it means
Zelda roars into life and is healthy and not lumpy and popping, then I will be over the moon. Sometimes I wish there were more VW people in Adelaide
that knew their way around dual carbs and was able to give me a hand, but then again, I'm glad I'll be left to work it out myself as it is a massive
learning experience!
If all else fails, I will send her into GHR some time next week and see what Siggi or Steve can do to help out.
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Bizarre
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 09:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by SebastienPeek
As for the balance tubes that are mentioned on the CB link, my manifolds that I have don't actually have anything that would cater for such a thing.
I'm going to assume then, that this isn't applicable for the EMPI remakes of the Webers.
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mmmmmmmmmmmmm.................................think you need one
Read here
http://superbeetle.websitetoolbox.com/post/A-word-about-EMPI-4626972
and here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5689875
and here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/archive/index.php/o-t--t-402211--.html
From reading it seems the EMPI's are too lean out of the box
Futue te ipsum!!!
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 vw54
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 10:14 PM |
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lots of LU CK will be required as well
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 10:35 PM |
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It almost sounds like I shouldn't have gone with the EMPI's from the beginning.
Unfortunately it was all that was available to me and even then, they aren't want I wanted, just put them on to get Zelda underway...
The only reason we ended up putting them on was because the manifold that I had for the 1600 didn't have the correct pre-heat tubes and therefore we
just jumped the gun and installed a dual carb setup. I want to keep dual carb though, but don't want any more dramas.
What do people recommend I get instead of running these EMPI's?
Links would be appreciated, I don't want anything big, I don't need anything big as the engine will stay a stock 1600.
I think, from what I can find, is that Webers are the way to go?
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pod
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 11:02 PM |
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simple straight up" Kadrons " are great for a stock 1600
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 11:09 PM |
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I can't seem to find any Kadrons on any of the online VW stores.
Tried CIP1, vwparts, JustKampersAustralia, ClassicVeeDub and Vollks.
All EMPI...
Going to try and get these tuned over the weekend, will report back if successful or not.
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vw54
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| posted on January 26th, 2012 at 11:44 PM |
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4 get the WEB and pick up the phone you would have got a BETTER deal from VVDS webbers 02-9789-1777
and you wont be wasting yr money on a so call tune up if you can find some one to do it
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 27th, 2012 at 12:22 AM |
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Alright, I'll give a few people I know around here a buzz that might know what to do when it comes to tuning them.
If all else fails, I'll give VVDS a call and see what I can get.
Appreciate your help vw54!
We shall see what tomorrow comes up with!
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shokwave2
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| posted on January 27th, 2012 at 04:22 PM |
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Give Rod Penrose a call. I bought some Kadrons off him last year at a nice price. He should be able to post them to you.
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pod
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| posted on January 27th, 2012 at 06:15 PM |
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http://www.lowbugget.com/main_page.html
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 27th, 2012 at 07:11 PM |
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Contacted Peter DeBiasi.
He is coming to pick Zelda up next Tuesday morning and taking her to get her tuned.
Hope it doesn't cost me a fortune, but really, I just want to get Zelda back up and running.
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snitz
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| posted on January 27th, 2012 at 07:36 PM |
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Just stick with what your got and get her running..My 1916 is all ready to go in the wifes car just have to get Peter to pick it up once I've done
some wiring. It is running twin 40mm HPMXs..Peters had good success and recommended using Empi carbs. If the engine builder has ran them before and
got good results..then Ill stick to the HPMXs.How many people that bag Empi carbs have actually owned, fitted and used them themselves?..If i get too
bored ill just go injection perfection IDFs and go injection..
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on January 27th, 2012 at 07:49 PM |
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Snitz, definitely sticking with what I got and hopefully Peter can resolve the current issue.
I will report back on Tuesday after he's picked her up and seen what is wrong. Hopefully it isn't an expensive fix, but really, at the moment I just
want her to start and to be able to drive her to work and home every day.
Soon, soon I'll get to drive her again!
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dangerous
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| posted on February 8th, 2012 at 09:09 AM |
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A friend of mine had a problematic set of these on a near stock 1640 I did for him.
Once the carbs were cleaned out, float levels set, and butterflies set, not too far open,
we had to REDUCE the idle jet down to a 45 from the supplied 52s.
A previously undrivable car was changed to a pleasure.
We actually soldered up the old jets and re-drilled them, with a plan to buy the correct size once it was deternined,
but that has never happened.
The fuel pressure was also found to be very touchy.
backing it down to 1.5psi was close,
and then a 1/2 psi change at a time, was found to get the sweet spot between flooding and starving at full noise.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on February 8th, 2012 at 10:26 AM |
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Dangerous,
I am glad it's not just me that has had issues with these.
I'm curious though, what is actually a recommended dual carb setup on a stock 1600 or is it just not worth the effort and I should go back to
single?
I'm just tossing up my options.
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on February 8th, 2012 at 12:53 PM |
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Found a carb specialist down the road from where I'm currently living.
Booked Zelda in for next Wednesday. He'll rejet and all of that if he has too, balance them and all of that too.
Now I'm kinda excited that I have her back.
She's running a lot better with the new fuel pump, the fan shroud has been blocked off too which is cool.
Just need to get me a Vintage Speed exhaust now.
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on February 12th, 2012 at 12:43 PM |
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Thinking about giving the tune up a shot myself...
Going to follow the CB Performance guide. If it goes wrong, I'm still taking her to the guy on Wednesday.
if it goes right, then I'll be cancelling that booking and will be over the moon knowing I did it myself!
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Bizarre
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| posted on February 12th, 2012 at 04:40 PM |
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thats the attitude
Futue te ipsum!!!
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on February 17th, 2012 at 08:35 AM |
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Okay, I have no idea what the hell is going on, but I think I need to clarify something.
I got DeBiasi to take a look. He tuned them and I paid him for his work. Sure, he told me he had issues tuning them, but I still paid him. He towed
Zelda from my place to his and back again, that alone is worth what I paid him. Then I took her down to Siggi for the faulty fuel pump, that was all
well and good and I got her back. I contemplated taking Zelda to a carb specialist down the street from GHR but never took her there. I also then
contemplated taking her to a carb specialist down OG road but that never happened too.
Instead, I tried it myself. I got them working better than they were before and that is that.
What I don't understand though, is why I get a phone call before 9am from someone having a go at me for mouthing off on the forum about his carb
shop?
I didn't even mention the name of the carb specialist I was going to take her too, both of them, so this is what I don't understand at all.
I shouldn't have to deal with this shit. I think it's time to switch over to the Airmighty forum instead...
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shokwave2
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| posted on February 17th, 2012 at 12:54 PM |
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Really? That's rude. Especially if you didn't mention their name, or give them a bad rap. Well now you have a reason to give them a bad rap. If some
business rang me and told me off for no reason, i'd spread the word. So spread the word.
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on February 17th, 2012 at 02:11 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by shokwave2
Really? That's rude. Especially if you didn't mention their name, or give them a bad rap. Well now you have a reason to give them a bad rap. If some
business rang me and told me off for no reason, i'd spread the word. So spread the word.
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Yeah, was really rude and got me in a really shitty mood.
The fact that they called me, talked to me as a child, woke me up, it all adds up to the fact that I probably won't take my business there if I need
too...
I guess some people on here really are "dibber dobbers" and should go back to kindergarten or something. It just doesn't make any sense when I
didn't mention anywhere, in any of my posts, no names, nothing, and I get a phone call from the place that I was originally going to take it.
The weirdest part, they got my number. Now this, to me, makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sure the business doesn't keep a log of every single phone
call and a name next to it, but yeah, it is just kinda dodgy.
I guess I'll just have to watch everything I say and only say shit that doesn't even relate to anything that involves any other business.
It just annoys the fuck out of me that someone on here would do something like that.
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snitz
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| posted on February 17th, 2012 at 11:11 PM |
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Weather you choose to take your car to a preferred or recommended Carby Specialist is your decision. You are the customer at the end of the day. I
personally have used Carburettor Sales and Service, Norfolk St. or Terrace down at Marion. They rebuilt my factory fitted weber on my TE Cortina and
replaced the water operated choke. And also rebuilt the factory 4 barrell on my RX5 twice. I dont understand why a potential customer would be abused
by a workshop wanting that customers business.If this is the case and true then the un-named workshop is going to lose business with antics like
that.
Any business that has provided me great service and goods I praise and recommend to anyone. If I have problems with a business or service I usually
give them the benefit of the doubt and give them time to retify problems/issues etc but if the quality of service or goods is blatantly shit, I will
tell them blatantly that they are shit. On a different note..anyone that wakes me up and abuses me would cop both barrells..Im not a morning
person..
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SebastienPeek
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| posted on February 18th, 2012 at 12:28 PM |
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Snitz,
I went in and saw them last night on my way home. Everything seems fine between them and myself, they were are as annoyed as I was when it comes to
someone making shit up or taking shit I've said the wrong way.
I will still recommend the OG Speed Shop to anyone. Len there is a gentleman and he enjoys teaching people what to do, not just doing it himself. He
wants other people to learn and to not just do it for them. Him and I had a massive conversation last night which probably was one of the best
conversations I've had in a long time when it comes to engine inner-workings and how carbs work. He his definitely full of information and like I
said, I'll still recommend OG Speed Shop to anyone on this side of town that is need of a carb specialist.
Trust me, if they had of caught me on any other day I would have let it fly, the night before my brother did a runner and I spent from 11pm till 4am
driving Zelda around trying to find him. Think Zelda is a bit worse for wear afterwards, she struggles to start now, have to be very gentle on the
accelerator. Time for those Kadrons I think. And then if I have issues with them then I'll go to Len and he can give me a hand and teach me in person
what to do.
I always want to learn.
I just don't understand what I said that was so misleading and that someone read so wrong. Makes no fucking sense to me.
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