| [ Total Views: 1623 | Total Replies: 20 | Thread Id: 96161 ] |
|
|
 Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on April 1st, 2012 at 06:03 PM |
|
|
Windage tray
Anyone using one in their high performance beetle motor ?
I'm going to be building a motor soon and was thinking of putting one in while its apart.
Any feedback good or bad would be appreciated
Cheers
|
|
|
BiX
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2499
Threads: 154
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 2nd, 2012 at 11:01 AM |
|
|
I have one, I think flat4.
In my old motor it seemed to work ok, though could still get the red light on cornering.
I ran/run it mostly with a extended sump and I think that makes more of a difference.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
|
|
|
nils
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 971
Threads: 65
Registered: January 11th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: central coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 2nd, 2012 at 12:46 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by BiX
I have one, I think flat4.
In my old motor it seemed to work ok, though could still get the red light on cornering.
I ran/run it mostly with a extended sump and I think that makes more of a difference.
|
ditto, makes things better but can still get the light to come on
Quit calling rust patina
|
|
|
colin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 984
Threads: 82
Registered: March 7th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Tamworth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 2nd, 2012 at 08:16 PM |
|
|
What size oil pump are you planning on running Craig?
The bigger the pump the faster the sump will drain!
Cheers Col
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on April 2nd, 2012 at 09:13 PM |
|
|
30mm pump, I will use a larger capacity sump as well........just interested to know if the windage tray is worth it. It seems a minimal $ outlay for
some form of benefit ?!
|
|
|
colin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 984
Threads: 82
Registered: March 7th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Tamworth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 07:41 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
30mm pump, I will use a larger capacity sump as well........just interested to know if the windage tray is worth it. It seems a minimal $ outlay for
some form of benefit ?!
|
Just my humble opinion but i reckon 30mm pump is overkill.
I had oil supply issues years ago hillclimbing and am now using a 23mm oil pump.
Even with sticky race tyres and very hard tight tracks ie Grafton never had oil supply problems with shitloads of pressure. On tear down of the engine
every year have never seen any evidence of oil starvation in the bearings etc.
Idle oil pressure around 20psi and about 10psi for every 1000rpm to a max of around 70psi.
I would recommend a max 26mm pump for a street car, IMHO, and including many years off racing, hope this info helps a little.
Cheers Col
|
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 07:53 AM |
|
|
I agree with Colin, 26mm pump
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 09:03 AM |
|
|
Thanks for that..............did you use a "boosted" relief spring ?
|
|
|
1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
Scirocco Rare
Posts: 8636
Threads: 559
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney, NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Parrot Heading
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 10:05 AM |
|
|
Hi Craig
What were you using when you run your hill climb car?
With a windage tray there can be a danger of the oil not getting back to the sump quickly enough.
Are windage push rod tubes a better way to go?
Steve
|
|
|
Sides
A.k.a.: Dave Sidery
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2220
Threads: 59
Registered: May 20th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: Need... more... shed... time...
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 10:14 AM |
|
|
Dry sump.
Go on, you know you want to...
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners |
|
|
HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Superannuated
Posts: 2887
Threads: 141
Registered: June 13th, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Happy enough
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 10:55 AM |
|
|
One problem with the dry sump is the danger of high crank-case temperatures. My sports sedan suffered from this trouble, as there is virtually no oil
'sloshing' around, and therefore very little 'oil cooling'. Oil temp. was fine, but the crankcase temp. was high, and the magnesium alloy become
'less strong' at these high temps.
My No.8 Beetle has a deep sump, and NO windage tray, for what it's worth.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
|
|
|
hypo-vw
A.k.a.: Wayne Penrose
Veteran Volks Folk
Australias 1st 10sec street beetle (Jan 2007) 10.49secs@132mph street tyres
Posts: 2151
Threads: 82
Registered: May 9th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: unanderra
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: hypo cruis'n
|
 posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 12:45 PM |
|
|
I do run a windage tray in "HORACE" the speedway bug and a deep sump also . Horace has been at many different angles and sideways more than any bug
that I know of ..... and it has never had the oil light come on 
Team 
FASTEST ET @ WARWICK 2010 & 2011
FASTEST SPEED @ WARWICK 2011
FASTEST ET & SPEED WSID 2012
PB - 6.33@113.07(1/8) & 9.88@135(1/4)
|
|
|
fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 964
Threads: 103
Registered: September 21st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Middle of the road.
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 02:32 PM |
|
|
Try the Jaycee pressure relief.....
Hi Craig,
I found the Jaycee oil pressure relief remote filter mount was the answer to all my problems.
It pumps the excess pressure from cold oil or high revs back to the sump. It could be a bit dodgy but I just tapped a fitting into the side of the
Stan Pobjoy sump. That's where the oil returns to; right by the oil pump pick-up.
Link to the product at veedub parts unlimited
esratrams
|
|
|
reub
Veteran Volks Folk
VWRX is gone...
Posts: 2054
Threads: 160
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 03:58 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Sides
Dry sump.
Go on, you know you want to...
|
You got specific info on yours dude?
Reub
|
|
|
colin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 984
Threads: 82
Registered: March 7th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Tamworth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 08:07 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Thanks for that..............did you use a "boosted" relief spring ?
|
No,
I did however after trial and error find that my berg 3.5quart sump was a big problem as it kept the oil away from the pick up tube.
Went to the smaller berg sump.
Off topic, CT your new avatar is sexy.
Cheers Col
|
|
|
mactaylor
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1005
Threads: 54
Registered: August 14th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Albury
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: even my dog is german
|
| posted on April 3rd, 2012 at 08:22 PM |
|
|
how bout the old hellbug trick of gated sump!
EVERLAST CONCRETE TANKS
1800 552 123
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:50 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by hypo-vw
I do run a windage tray in "HORACE" the speedway bug and a deep sump also . Horace has been at many different angles and sideways more than any bug
that I know of ..... and it has never had the oil light come on
|
Hi Wayne, are you using the 30mm pump or another size ?
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on April 4th, 2012 at 07:58 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
30mm pump, I will use a larger capacity sump as well........just interested to know if the windage tray is worth it. It seems a minimal $ outlay for
some form of benefit ?!
|
Just my humble opinion but i reckon 30mm pump is overkill.
I had oil supply issues years ago hillclimbing and am now using a 23mm oil pump.
Even with sticky race tyres and very hard tight tracks ie Grafton never had oil supply problems with shitloads of pressure. On tear down of the engine
every year have never seen any evidence of oil starvation in the bearings etc.
Idle oil pressure around 20psi and about 10psi for every 1000rpm to a max of around 70psi.
I would recommend a max 26mm pump for a street car, IMHO, and including many years off racing, hope this info helps a little.
Cheers Col
|
Hi Col, was it a 30mm pump that was causing you the oil supply issue ? If so, did you use the 30mm pump with the smaller sump that you have now or was
it only used with the larger 3.5 sump ?
Any reason youre not using the 26mm ?
Cheers
Craig T
|
|
|
colin
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 984
Threads: 82
Registered: March 7th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Tamworth
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 5th, 2012 at 08:50 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
| Quote: | Originally
posted by colin
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
30mm pump, I will use a larger capacity sump as well........just interested to know if the windage tray is worth it. It seems a minimal $ outlay for
some form of benefit ?!
|
Just my humble opinion but i reckon 30mm pump is overkill.
I had oil supply issues years ago hillclimbing and am now using a 23mm oil pump.
Even with sticky race tyres and very hard tight tracks ie Grafton never had oil supply problems with shitloads of pressure. On tear down of the engine
every year have never seen any evidence of oil starvation in the bearings etc.
Idle oil pressure around 20psi and about 10psi for every 1000rpm to a max of around 70psi.
I would recommend a max 26mm pump for a street car, IMHO, and including many years off racing, hope this info helps a little.
Cheers Col
|
Hi Col, was it a 30mm pump that was causing you the oil supply issue ? If so, did you use the 30mm pump with the smaller sump that you have now or was
it only used with the larger 3.5 sump ?
Any reason youre not using the 26mm ?
Cheers
Craig T
|
I only used the larger 30mm pump with the large sump.
i then stepped down to a 26mm pump and large sump, then 26mm and small sump then 23mm and small sump solved the issue.
My engine is not your typical VW engine in regards to comparing to a street engine.
Mine is pulled down cases split inspected rebuilt to exact specs by Larry and he is as fussy and particular as i am, every year.
So thats why i suggested a 26mm pump for a daily street engine as you would not do this maintenence schedule every year.
I have changed my engines oil breather system this last off season, and a larger pump may now work ok, but the 23mm as i have said has plenty of
pressure so i,m not about to fix something that works fine.
Cheers Col
PS this is a great thread, allways good to listen to other peoples experiences and thoughts.
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on April 5th, 2012 at 10:33 PM |
|
|
Cheers Col, I guess the 23mm is the best option for chasing HP as well.
The motor I'm building will be for some weekend twisty road driving, and you're right, I don't intend to be pulling it down each year !!
Thanks again for your input. 
|
|
|
nils
Fahrvergnugen
Posts: 971
Threads: 65
Registered: January 11th, 2008
Member Is Offline
Location: central coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on April 6th, 2012 at 02:24 PM |
|
|
craig, I had the 30mm pump at one point too. That little sucker takes the oil out quicker than it can get back,
have had no problems with the 26mm
Quit calling rust patina
|
|
|
