| [ Total Views: 1388 | Total Replies: 23 | Thread Id: 96776 ] |
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 Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 7th, 2012 at 11:10 AM |
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Type 1 Rear disc hub failure
We are having problems with the hub on a disc brake conversion on a type 1 IRS rear. It is a commonly availiable conversion kit and we have already
messed up 2 hubs.
The first hub had the wheel come loose and the wheel studs flogged out the hub. This was probably due to the wheel nuts not being tightened enough, or
incorrectly. However, the guy who tightened them swears it was tightened enough.
The second cracked when the new studs were being installed, however, I think the holes were drilled too small for the stud.
The concern I have is that the hub appears to be made of low carbon steel, almost cast iron, and seems to be very brittle.
Has anyone had any issues like this with these products?
Are there other options for this part?
Thanks,
Phil.
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mackaymanx
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| posted on May 7th, 2012 at 01:22 PM |
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You could use the type 3 irs hubs. That is if the hubs are seperate to the discs, pictures would be good.
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 7th, 2012 at 02:53 PM |
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Hi
Sounds like they could be Chinese hubs, you don't want to have happen what happened to Greg Mackie when his rear brake drum shattered.
I had some billet one made by LMS, not cheap but they would never break.
Sometimes a build up of paint on wheels and hubs can make the nuts come loose even after being tightened properly.
Steve
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 7th, 2012 at 02:57 PM |
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Thanks for the reply Brent.
I will try to get pictures tonight.
Yes, the hubs are seperate from the discs.
Type 3 has been mentioned but these have been drilled for a Ford 5 stud pattern.
That's why aftermarket is preferable.
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 7th, 2012 at 03:13 PM |
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Thanks Steve,
I would bet a weeks pay that these are chinese hubs.
I have heard of drums shattering before and a brittle metal would do just that rather than bend on impact.
This is on a show car so it will never go racing, but the owner still wants to drive it on the road occasionally.
I, for one, would not like to drive a car with these hubs on. As Robbie Williams said "I aint afraid of dyin', I just don't want to".
There was no paint at all on the hubs etc. One possibility of the nuts coming loose due to the alloy wheels having large wheel stud holes and very
small tapers.
The end of the wheelnuts may have gripped the face of the wheel rather than locating in the taper (installer error)and then tightened fully up.
The car did a coupla hundred km's before getting wobbly.
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mackaymanx
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| posted on May 7th, 2012 at 05:57 PM |
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This is the only other option I know of.
http://www.vwispwest.com/GA-501581P.html
Unfortunatly only in Porsche or VW patterns.
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
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hellbugged
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| posted on May 7th, 2012 at 11:40 PM |
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Look on the samba for cro molly type 3 drive flanges. There are blank ones available to drill as you need
I have a set and they are sweet as they are advertised to be
I will look for a link tomorrow if you can't find them
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1242170
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 8th, 2012 at 09:29 AM |
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Thanks guys. Will have a look on samba later
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 8th, 2012 at 03:22 PM |
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The ones mentioned by hellbugged on the samba site are also ISP west but undrilled.
At US$145.00 each plus shipping they are dear, but so is a crash!
Here is a picture of the offenders.
up first is a picture of the original hub with the studs welded in just to get it mobile.
The second is the replacement hub which split like a dropped watermelon. To be fair, a press was used (!) to do this, but apparently very little
effort was put in.
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 8th, 2012 at 03:40 PM |
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I wonder how we would go turning one up out of an old brake drum?
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HappyDaze
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| posted on May 8th, 2012 at 03:53 PM |
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Unfortunately we are in the hands of the manufacturers of these components. As Steve mentioned, the repro. [Zimmermann] drums that I used to replace
the original VW rear drums on my Beetle, turned into a disaster.
The material used, heat-treatment, and all other processes must be strictly controlled, and up to very high standards. Go for the best available.
Because of my 'loss of confidence' in after-market stuff, I decided to use 50 year old Porsche drum brakes on the Beetle........I KNOW they are
strong.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 8th, 2012 at 04:28 PM |
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Thanks for the input, Greg.
Your name, and little moment, has already popped up in the past week.
This is why I like these forums.
We are mugs if we don't take the opportunity to learn from others mistakes.
I accept that about 10%-15% of all the parts I bought for the KG resto would be only good for the bin.
This is the cost of doing business, and I usually buy the dearest part when given a choice.
However, choosing the wrong part, such as a brittle hub, can result in a nasty accident .
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Flintstones
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| posted on May 8th, 2012 at 07:10 PM |
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looking at the centre of the hub, it looks to be a casting which has then been machined.
Is it a casting? cause if it is, then that definately shoudn't be used for the role it's being used for considering the forces that would be applied
to it...
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hellbugged
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| posted on May 8th, 2012 at 07:17 PM |
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yep thanx Greg, it was your "inspirastional moment" that led me to the molly ones.
X2 on a crash is more costly Phil
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 vw54
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| posted on May 8th, 2012 at 07:37 PM |
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chinese junk
get some good S/Hand ones
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 9th, 2012 at 09:12 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Flintstones
looking at the centre of the hub, it looks to be a casting which has then been machined.
Is it a casting? cause if it is, then that definately shoudn't be used for the role it's being used for considering the forces that would be applied
to it...
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Yes, I would say it is definitely a casting. Weren't the originals also cast? Personally, I think the quality of the steel is more the issue here.
I agree these hubs should not be used for driving on the road.
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 9th, 2012 at 09:17 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vw54
chinese junk
get some good S/Hand ones
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Secondhand would be very difficult to find I think. then the holes need to be filled and the hub redrilled for the ford pattern.
The blank ones in chrome moly steel from ISP West are looking good.
I would expect a pair landed here to cost AUD$400.00 +.
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hellbugged
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| posted on May 9th, 2012 at 10:26 AM |
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Yep the freight charge was reasonable and transaction smooth
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 10th, 2012 at 05:28 PM |
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Good to hear,Daimo.
Currently, I am being labelled "the boy who cried wolf", so I am pulling my wooly head in.
What surprised me was, I found out that the "cheap chinese part" cost about $150.00 shipped from Queensland.
More than what it costs to buy the chrome moly hub in good ole USA!
Is it me, or is there something wrong here?
Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!!!
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 10th, 2012 at 05:30 PM |
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Oh cr#p.
Did I just Misspell Woolf?
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HappyDaze
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| posted on May 10th, 2012 at 05:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Lucky Phil
Oh cr#p.
Did I just Misspell Woolf?
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Not then, but you have now.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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 matberry
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| posted on May 10th, 2012 at 06:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Lucky Phil
What surprised me was, I found out that the "cheap chinese part" cost about $150.00 shipped from Queensland.
More than what it costs to buy the chrome moly hub in good ole USA!
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I think the problem here is who ever marked up the 'cheap chinese part' 10 000%.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Lucky Phil
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| posted on May 11th, 2012 at 01:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by HappyDaze
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Lucky Phil
Oh cr#p.
Did I just Misspell Woolf?
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Not then, but you have now.
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That's what you get for posting during beer o'clock!
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vwo60
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| posted on May 13th, 2012 at 08:16 AM |
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If the hub does this what is the rest of the brakes like.
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