| [ Total Views: 1432 | Total Replies: 25 | Thread Id: 99105 ] |
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 pudgy
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 01:31 PM |
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Cooling down the shed
Hi,
With me slowly getting back into the projects, and the temperature rising, I think I'm in desperate need of shed cooling measures before the summer
truly kicks in.
So my Q is: has anyone had good experience with insulating their shed, and what material, brand did you use? I will eventually be doing some
painting, so I'd rather avoid fibrous/fiberglass material if possible (unless totally sealed off somehow). I've seen some thin, foil backed "air
bubble" type shed insulation on the 'net, but wouldn't want to take the plunge on it unless someone has good testimonials on it.
Also can anyone personally confirm a whirlybird makes a difference in shed.
Thanks in advance
Peter
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13bwagon
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 01:40 PM |
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i have heard good things about the air bubble stuff but have not used it myself
i would love a port a cool unit !!! but i think there a bit $$$$$
BUY A REAL BUG A PRE S BUG...
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Gracey
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 02:07 PM |
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I used to work in a shed that was painted with the insulating reflective paint, it worked extremely well.
I can't remember exactly but it reduced the temperature by about 10 degrees on a really hot day.
The other benefit is that it doesn't hold the heat like some of the insulations.
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LUFTMEISTER
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 03:24 PM |
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F'en BIG fan.
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
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h
A.k.a.: Towely BuMpEr KING! ILLegal ALIEN on a roadtrip
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 03:36 PM |
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farken big beer fridge full of coldies 
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Mr Muppet
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 04:38 PM |
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The best insulation you can use is a wool blanket like http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/Products/Residential/Thermal-insulation/... which has silver foil stuck onto an insulating
wool, but this requires you to install it before the roof sheeting is screwed down. You want to prevent the heat from entering the roof space so I
personally would not bother with any other product. So you need to get some airflow happening with the help of some vents. These are cool http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.au/Products/Residential/Residential-ventila... Hot air rises and sits up under the roof so
whirlybirds are the way to go, get 2 the more the better, but they are wind powered so no wind=not much flow. You can also get powered fan units for
domestic use, I have experienced how well this works in a small industrial shed. BTW I have worked in domestic and commercial construction for to
long.
Michael
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 Bizarre
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 05:08 PM |
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insulate with the highest R value insulation you can afford
Air movement (whirlybird) is good. Fans are better - but remember the best you will get to is ambient temperature
That heat reflective paint works - but again, ambient is the best you will get to
Mists, sprays and any form of evaporative cooling only works when the wet bulb is low. ie a dry area
Adelaide - yes
Sydney - no
Brisbane - forget it
Futue te ipsum!!!
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cam070
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 06:04 PM |
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Sorry to correct you guys, but R-values are a bit of a myth. You need to combine R-values with thermal mass to get a truly useful insulating
structure. That's why double brick houses stay so much cooler, despite the fact they have low R-values. I can provide you with the research data if
you like.let's just say the BCA lags a bit behind.
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h
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 06:06 PM |
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Queensland summer = air con
a heap of spilt systems will sort u out
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Bizarre
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 06:27 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by cam070
Sorry to correct you guys, but R-values are a bit of a myth. You need to combine R-values with thermal mass to get a truly useful insulating
structure. That's why double brick houses stay so much cooler, despite the fact they have low R-values. I can provide you with the research data if
you like.let's just say the BCA lags a bit behind.
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Yes and no
he already has the structure
I dont think cladding the shed in double brick is an option
Putting a low R Value insulation in compared to a high R value will not provide better insulating
As for ventilation - aim for 10 air changes an hour for something that will work
Putting 2 whirly birds on there will do nothing
Futue te ipsum!!!
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BiX
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 07:02 PM |
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Needs to be a combined approach.
Passive insulation, along with vents (not sure if they are easily adapatable to a shed), but they used to make passive vents. They were a round tube
that rang along the crest of the roof, they were black and heated up, which caused the air to flow out and draw more air up. they don't need a breeze
to work.
THe more mass you add to the walls the better, ie plasterboard
Also if you go the aircon route, you need the above (with events that can be closed once the shed is cooled) otherwise its pointless.
When.... I get my shed built, it will have passive venting on the roof, best insuation in the walls I can, lined with plasterboard. Aircon
maybe.......
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
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t_tuffnut
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 07:10 PM |
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Just the other day I was on whingepool reading about whirly birds and the general concensus on there was that they were good. I put two on my house -
I got the clear top ones to throw a bit of light into the roof cavity to discourage termites - and found they have helped a bit. Not as much as the
thick layer of insulation that we got put in, but it was a start.
I put one above the exhaust fan in the bathroom and one above the aircon unit that vents into my garage - figuring they would suck out the exhaust
heat from both units. They spin in a sparrow's fart and are as quiet as Alan Jones's PR firm.
I also went and finished putting up internal walls in the garage which helped a heap - sealing up the walls which were just weatherboard between brick
pillars. I'm kicking myself now that I didn't throw in some pink batts at the time - but I might do later as that wall of the garage faces north and
cops the sun all day.
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wild baja
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 07:21 PM |
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Its callled Aircell, distributed australia wide, basically its bubble wrap with a foil lining. Ive got it under my sheds colour bond roofing. with
lined wallls my split system A/C works a treat.
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Old Dubber
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 07:55 PM |
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Peter,
I helped build a house in Exmouth ,WA and we used an air bubble material with silver foil on one side and gold foil on the other, under the roof and
wall sheeting - maybe called aircell .
It was fantastic.
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pudgy
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 08:18 PM |
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Thanks for all the info/ideas guys. I think at this point I might try the reflective paint (when it was mentioned, I recalled my old neighbours
getting it put on their place and recommending it, so worth a try), a whirlybird (or 2), and finally bite the bullet and pick an industrial fan. It I
can't work after all that, then I'll try the aircell insulation as well.
Aircon definitely not an option as I like working with the door open, and since the house doesn't even have aircon, installing it in the shed first
might send the wrong message to the other half 
I'll report back after I see what difference the paint makes, as I'm sure there's other people chasing a more comfortable shed.
Thanks again...
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silver
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 08:43 PM |
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How about installing shade cloth on the roof?? Batten it down to the top of the roof about 100 mm ..get the 60 % stuff thats 60% less sun actually
getting on the roof in the first place
Keeping it real !
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Andy
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 09:01 PM |
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I put the bats under the sheeting like Muppet suggested. Works great at stopping heat coming in from the roof, and also makes it very quiet in heavy
rain!
Heat does come in through the walls on a hot day though. Plant a few big tree's that keep the shed in the shade all day and your set 
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vlad01
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| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 09:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by wild baja
Its callled Aircell, distributed australia wide, basically its bubble wrap with a foil lining. Ive got it under my sheds colour bond roofing. with
lined wallls my split system A/C works a treat.
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is it expensive?
I have been considering insulation before I start lining the bottom half of my shed walls with yellow tongue. Although I am not really considering
doing the roof til I replace all the cladding on the shed with new colorbond one day (the zincalum is looking a little sad).
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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donn
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| posted on October 8th, 2012 at 07:34 AM |
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Working in the shed industry for many years we found that the Aircell was one of the better options for the roof though it didn't have the sound
deadening qualities of the wool, it is best installed prior to the sheeting though it can be fixed post sheeting (mongrell of a job though and there
is more than one way to do it). don't forget the walls, especialy the western wall to help against the afternoon sun. The real problem with a metal
shed is radiated heat as the steel sheeting heats up very quickly and radiates the heat straight into the shed, but then it cools down very quickly
when the sun is no longer shining on the steel so getting rid of the heat as quickly as possible is a good move as the heated air stays traped in the
shed,best of the bunch is static vents, used to great effect in chook sheds and large industrial buildings (we called them ridge vents). I think you
will find that the Aircell as originaly introduced to the market has changed, it was originaly a material very like bubble wrap but a great deal
stronger and coated both sides with a reflective finish (one side had a yellow or orange finish over the silver, this surface faces up, it's to stop
the poor old installer getting blinded when working on the roof, this product was very good but was superseeded with a sort of foam sheet with the
same coatings, SEEMED to be beter still but I'm out of the industry now so I have not heard of any follow up reports, two thicknesses available with
different "R" ratings. Brick is good but once heated the mass of the masonry holds the heat much longer so the heat source is still there for a
longer period (it would be a herculean task to get it on the roof though  ) Cavity brick supplies a break between the external surface and the inside skin of brick and so lowering the temp of the
inside bricks compared to the outer skin, its the air gap in most insulation that does most of he work, (the reason a lot of on site vans have a
second roof fixed just above the original roof) wool, foam, "bubble wrap", all have airgaps, add the reflective surface and you have something that
does a pretty good job, reflective paint does its job before the heat gets to the metal sheeting, though it breaks down reasonably quickly I HAVE
HEARD. The old spin away type air vents do work but you need to install enough of them to get rid of the heated air quickly, mine work even with no
wind as the hot air still rises through them and on a realy hot day the passage of that air makes them rotate, there are ones with small motors to get
them rotating though you are getting into the $ now, and I have heard that there are solar powered ones also. the clear ones are good for letting
light in (but that won't deter termites as they build little tunnels to keep themselves out of the sun.
Vlad, what's with the yellow tongue, thats a floor sheet material, are you using it as an internal linning, it will be damned heavy and therefore
hard work to install but real robust (I've installed it in horse sheds but soon replaced it with hardwood boards), should give a reasonable
insulating quality though if you do the full height of the wall as it will introduce an air gap.
I dream of a day when a chicken can cross a road without being asked for it's motive!
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vlad01
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| posted on October 8th, 2012 at 08:27 AM |
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well by the sounds of it, I would only need in on the roof and the north end of the shed, which works out good coz I want a mezzanine there and it
will be lined all the way to the roof.
Don't need west side as its fully blocked by bushy firebush trees well past the roof line and the length of the shed. YAY! 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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Klaus
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| posted on October 8th, 2012 at 02:43 PM |
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I lifted the roof sheets off my shed and layed down the silver backed wool "anticon" made a massie difference along with whirlybird , for the walls
i made up timber frames with sarking and woolrock ins then covered them in 6mm ply , still have to replace tiltadoor with double barn style doors ,
but very impressed with temp diff from inside to outside and also have a small aircon unit in the wall , its a tin shed /garage
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grinderman
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| posted on October 8th, 2012 at 07:39 PM |
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As a painter we are getting good results from dulux coolroof ( get it from dulux trade centres). The whirlybirds may suck out the hot air but all that
does is draw more heat through the tin roof/walls. If the roof and/or walls are insulated on the outside with the proper build thickness of coolroof
paint you wont need any internal insulation or lining. I cant believe the amount of school/house roofs that we do in dark red or green and the owners
just keep updating their air cons.............it just doesn't make sense in queensland especially.
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hulbyw
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| posted on October 8th, 2012 at 07:40 PM |
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Mate of mine stuck styrene foam sheets under the existing shed roof and reckons it made a significant difference. Don't know what adhesive he used
but the people who sell the foam should know
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esevwbits
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| posted on October 9th, 2012 at 08:24 PM |
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refrigeration panels..
i do container offices etc with them.. nothing comes close!
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vlad01
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| posted on October 9th, 2012 at 09:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by esevwbits
refrigeration panels..
i do container offices etc with them.. nothing comes close!
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thats awesome, me wants
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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RestoKäfer
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| posted on October 18th, 2012 at 08:25 PM |
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Air cavity,100mm gap use sizealation (the stuff on a roll that is blue one side and silver the other) line the whole inner shed,roof whirly too.Big
can of white paint ,paint outside with a massive brush.The whole project will only be a few hundred
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