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 haydng
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| posted on March 8th, 2013 at 01:42 PM |
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gearshift & headlights type 3 squareback
Hi all; I'm helping my son do up his first car and his gearshift keeps popping out of the coupling (bloody dangerous as it just rotates and cant
engage a gear). We've replaced the bushing in the tunnel and the the gearshift housing and played around with the shifter alignment in the tunnel etc
for hours.
Anyone else had this problem? BTW is the gearshift in a '72 type 3 supposed to be bent or straight? I'm wondering if someone has replaced it with an
incorrect one in the past?? (maybe we should replace the whole lot-shifter, spring, housing etc)
Also- does anyone sell a bolt on hella conversion for the headlights? |
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grumble
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| posted on March 8th, 2013 at 03:01 PM |
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have a look at the distance that the shift rod is down from the top of the tunnel as the rod may have been bent down when the bush was worn and the
shift ball ran up on it,I have a couple of gear levers,the early one is straight and a 73 that has an extended z shape if you need one,the basic depth
is the same i think. You can buy halogen globes for the headlights.Does the headlight bucket have the 3 mounting points inside,if so the T2/golf
lights should screw in.
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vlad01
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| posted on March 9th, 2013 at 04:06 PM |
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I am certain all type 3 are straight and only bugs have some with z rods.
all late type 3 are all straight with absolute certainty unless someone has proof of the part existing.
As for the gear shifter popping out, I had this happen on my 73 and I think the cause was the fact the engine mount brackets were broken and the
engine sat about 50mm lower at the rear which tilted the shift rod up at the rear which in turn tilted the front end down. it was a significant
amount. I would also check shift lock plate adjustments and shifter ball end for excessive wear, etc...
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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grumble
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| posted on March 9th, 2013 at 05:38 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
I am certain all type 3 are straight and only bugs have some with z rods.
all late type 3 are all straight with absolute certainty unless someone has proof of the part existing.
As for the gear shifter popping out, I had this happen on my 73 and I think the cause was the fact the engine mount brackets were broken and the
engine sat about 50mm lower at the rear which tilted the shift rod up at the rear which in turn tilted the front end down. it was a significant
amount. I would also check shift lock plate adjustments and shifter ball end for excessive wear, etc...
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vlad I am losing touch with the type 3's yes I remember the rear mounting brackets used to crack and let the engine drop,I have seen a lot of
hideous repairs over the years. I dismantled a few 73's last year and one had a z shaped stick, I will have a close look at it to see if it was
welded.
Cheers Les
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vlad01
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| posted on March 9th, 2013 at 09:19 PM |
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I checked the parts book, very early models have a different part number for the rod so it maybe a z type. All latter use a single part number and
since none of the later ones I have seen have been the z type I can assume there is none for the later models.
My old 73 SB had straight rod. I had a few of these rods spare in my shed few years ago. all were straight but that doesn't mean someone didn't
replace it with the incorrect type in the one you pulled apart.
I agree, the later rear mounting system is notorious for failing. I like the earlier frame horn design better as it has potential for for kafer bars
coupled with IRS conversion. Then you have win win situation 
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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1500S
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| posted on March 9th, 2013 at 09:43 PM |
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Check the measurement from under the pivot ball of the stick to the centre of the pin which locates in the shift rod. The early stick which has
around a 10 degree bend is around 34mm from under the ball to centre of pin. The later ones which I think was from around 70 on had a straighter
stick from memory and has a measurement of 43 mm. Maybe someone has matched an early stick in a later housing which means the stick isn't engaging
the right amount into the shift rod socket.
Early sticks moved through a greater distance than late ones. Sort of like using a "quick shift" unit if you use the later ones in early cars.
Not sure what is meant by the "Z" type. ???
Early mount has the lip for the large shift boot. Later has a flat outer flange and used a small shift boot.
Late type on right with early boot on it! Note the different distance from pivot ball to pin. 34mm on left, 43mm on right one.
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dragsters for life
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| posted on March 10th, 2013 at 05:22 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
I checked the parts book, very early models have a different part number for the rod so it maybe a z type. All latter use a single part number and
since none of the later ones I have seen have been the z type I can assume there is none for the later models.
My old 73 SB had straight rod. I had a few of these rods spare in my shed few years ago. all were straight but that doesn't mean someone didn't
replace it with the incorrect type in the one you pulled apart.
I agree, the later rear mounting system is notorious for failing. I like the earlier frame horn design better as it has potential for for kafer bars
coupled with IRS conversion. Then you have win win situation
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some 73s did have a z rod
volkaholics.net come check us out
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68AutoBug
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| posted on March 10th, 2013 at 01:37 PM |
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Big difference in those shifters..
so, an incorrect shifter rod in the wrong shifter mount would make it way out...
I never thought there would have been a difference in the shifter pivot ball height..
and have never ever checked them side by side... lol
I have noticed differences in the shifter mounting base...
but that was all...
shifters with a bend in them usually have a locating pin in the base ball piece so the shifter cannot be rotated about..
straight shifters didn't need that locating pin...
as it didn't matter where the shifter was located...
Lee
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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| posted on March 10th, 2013 at 02:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
Big difference in those shifters..
so, an incorrect shifter rod in the wrong shifter mount would make it way out...
I never thought there would have been a difference in the shifter pivot ball height..
and have never ever checked them side by side... lol
I have noticed differences in the shifter mounting base...
but that was all...
shifters with a bend in them usually have a locating pin in the base ball piece so the shifter cannot be rotated about..
straight shifters didn't need that locating pin...
as it didn't matter where the shifter was located...
Lee
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The early ones made us use the old Empi "quickshift" accessory Lee! Too much stick travel. We made plenty of copies at the old Eveleigh Loco Works
at Redfern during the 60s.  Maybe I'll change the S to the later
one again!
DH
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vlad01
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| posted on March 10th, 2013 at 10:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dragsters for life
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
I checked the parts book, very early models have a different part number for the rod so it maybe a z type. All latter use a single part number and
since none of the later ones I have seen have been the z type I can assume there is none for the later models.
My old 73 SB had straight rod. I had a few of these rods spare in my shed few years ago. all were straight but that doesn't mean someone didn't
replace it with the incorrect type in the one you pulled apart.
I agree, the later rear mounting system is notorious for failing. I like the earlier frame horn design better as it has potential for for kafer bars
coupled with IRS conversion. Then you have win win situation
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some 73s did have a z rod
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got proof and a part number?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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haydng
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| posted on March 13th, 2013 at 04:15 PM |
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Thanks for your help everyone.
FYI we lashed out and invested in the Bentley workshop manual and it appears the gearshift is correct for the car (10 degree bent type, short ball
length, flat mounting flange etc )
We will be checking the engine mounts etc on the weekend....otherwise there is a nice ford laser the neighbors are selling for $800..... |
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MY68VW
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| posted on March 13th, 2013 at 05:12 PM |
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Found out mine wouldn't stay in gear because the gear splines were worn, resulted in a new box.
I was told early golf headlights will fit with minimal fabrication.
Tuned Type IV power - shaking out the rust.
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grumble
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| posted on March 13th, 2013 at 06:50 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by grumble
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
I am certain all type 3 are straight and only bugs have some with z rods.
all late type 3 are all straight with absolute certainty unless someone has proof of the part existing.
As for the gear shifter popping out, I had this happen on my 73 and I think the cause was the fact the engine mount brackets were broken and the
engine sat about 50mm lower at the rear which tilted the shift rod up at the rear which in turn tilted the front end down. it was a significant
amount. I would also check shift lock plate adjustments and shifter ball end for excessive wear, etc...
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vlad I am losing touch with the type 3's yes I remember the rear mounting brackets used to crack and let the engine drop,I have seen a lot of
hideous repairs over the years. I dismantled a few 73's last year and one had a z shaped stick, I will have a close look at it to see if it was
welded.
Cheers Les
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vlad I checked the shifter today and it has had a section welded into it,moves the stick back quite a bit probably suit some of the "Ricer" drivers
who drive with the seat reclined looking at the sky. and wonder why those parked cars run into them. Cheers Les
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on March 13th, 2013 at 07:14 PM |
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I believe the type 3 headlamps are the same as the later beetle headlamps.. 1968>
I always fit new Hella semi sealed beams into the original chromed rim, using early ford falcon buckets..
a bit of a fiddly job but not too difficult..
if the chromed reflector is OK.. all shiney.. no dark spots..
just fit Halogen H4 headlamp bulbs..
You will need to take a bulb with you to get the correct bulb as they aren't the common Halogen bulb..
Most VW parts shops should sell the bulbs and maybe a conversion kit..??
cheers
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
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| posted on March 13th, 2013 at 07:19 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MY68VW
Found out mine wouldn't stay in gear because the gear splines were worn, resulted in a new box.
I was told early golf headlights will fit with minimal fabrication.
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Never tried them, but a complete headlamp may have the right bucket to bolt to the VW chromed ring or to the small brackets fitted inside the VW
beetle type 3 headlamps on the body..
as was used in the USA etc..
where sealed beams had to be used - as the european type headlamps We used are illegal in the USA.. [not sure if that law is still there]
All cars in the USA had sealed beams from the 2nd world war or earlier.. [Yes, jeeps had them in the war]
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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vlad01
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| posted on March 13th, 2013 at 09:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by grumble
| Quote: | Originally
posted by grumble
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
I am certain all type 3 are straight and only bugs have some with z rods.
all late type 3 are all straight with absolute certainty unless someone has proof of the part existing.
As for the gear shifter popping out, I had this happen on my 73 and I think the cause was the fact the engine mount brackets were broken and the
engine sat about 50mm lower at the rear which tilted the shift rod up at the rear which in turn tilted the front end down. it was a significant
amount. I would also check shift lock plate adjustments and shifter ball end for excessive wear, etc...
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vlad I am losing touch with the type 3's yes I remember the rear mounting brackets used to crack and let the engine drop,I have seen a lot of
hideous repairs over the years. I dismantled a few 73's last year and one had a z shaped stick, I will have a close look at it to see if it was
welded.
Cheers Les
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vlad I checked the shifter today and it has had a section welded into it,moves the stick back quite a bit probably suit some of the "Ricer" drivers
who drive with the seat reclined looking at the sky. and wonder why those parked cars run into them.Cheers Les
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lol, well theres ya problem.
good you found it.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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vlad01
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| posted on March 13th, 2013 at 09:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MY68VW
Found out mine wouldn't stay in gear because the gear splines were worn, resulted in a new box.
I was told early golf headlights will fit with minimal fabrication.
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he actually ment the stick fell out of the shifter.
as for your gears jumping out, new box time.
I blew one box up in my bareback. was the pinion bearing which ate its way through the 1st gear as its next to it. I was wondering why I could not
turn the axles when the car was jacked up
What kinda box do you need? I have a SSC super low k original box I want to off load as I been keeping it for like 8 years. No use to me now.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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1500S
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| posted on March 14th, 2013 at 08:16 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by haydng
Thanks for your help everyone.
FYI we lashed out and invested in the Bentley workshop manual and it appears the gearshift is correct for the car (10 degree bent type, short ball
length, flat mounting flange etc )
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Check again with the pics posted previously. If you have the shorter length stick as in the left pic in a FLAT type plate as in the right pic it
won't work. The pivot ball sits to high and the selector rod ball slips out of the rod socket.
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bushed
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| posted on March 16th, 2013 at 07:17 PM |
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have lites and bent shifter if still need
Bris
post no probs
want any vw bits old but like me, Made in Germany!!!
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haydng
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| posted on March 22nd, 2013 at 09:44 AM |
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Thanks for the offer Bushed- how can I contact you?
We've checked the engine mounts and ideally I'd like a new shifter, ball housing, stop plate, and spring to remove all the variables-do you supply
them new? Also some detail on the headlights would be great. Rgds Haydn |
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bushed
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| posted on March 22nd, 2013 at 09:59 AM |
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am on hols atmo
hve them in gd cond used
all nice but hve ta wait
sorry
want any vw bits old but like me, Made in Germany!!!
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MY68VW
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| posted on March 24th, 2013 at 07:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
| Quote: | Originally
posted by MY68VW
Found out mine wouldn't stay in gear because the gear splines were worn, resulted in a new box.
I was told early golf headlights will fit with minimal fabrication.
|
he actually ment the stick fell out of the shifter.
as for your gears jumping out, new box time.
I blew one box up in my bareback. was the pinion bearing which ate its way through the 1st gear as its next to it. I was wondering why I could not
turn the axles when the car was jacked up
What kinda box do you need? I have a SSC super low k original box I want to off load as I been keeping it for like 8 years. No use to me now.
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4Xsun geared box is being put together, all the parts purchased just waiting on the build and installation. Standard boxes don't like what the engine
asks from them.
Tuned Type IV power - shaking out the rust.
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