| [ Total Views: 1617 | Total Replies: 29 | Thread Id: 103402 ] |
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 wesdem77
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 posted on September 9th, 2013 at 02:56 PM |
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Extra cooling suggestions??
Hello everyone!
I live up here in the hot tropics, and was looking for suggestions on extra cooling....
My Bug has no cooling vents on the decklid, and is running a 2100cc motor.
I have a bigger oil sump, with an external oil cooler attached.
I've had stand-offs before, but with all the rain we get up here (sporadically) it caused a lot of rain to enter the engine bay. This caused rust,
hard starts and already wrecked one alternator.
I was thinking of cutting some vents, but was looking for some advice...???? 
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'71 U.S. Super Beetle
'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
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68BUS
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 03:31 PM |
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Fit a temp guage first. You external cooler may be good enough.
Otherwise fit a fan to the cooler as a 2nd step.
When you say it has no vents - do you litrally mean no vents??
There mush be something unless there was a run of water cooled bugs out there.
1966 Aussie 11 Window
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Joel
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 03:52 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68BUS
Fit a temp guage first. You external cooler may be good enough.
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That may keep the oil cool but not the heads.
if you don't wanna prop open the top or fit a vented decklid you can always prop open the bottom, not ideal as it can recirculate hot air but it does
let a little more air in.
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wesdem77
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 04:04 PM |
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Sorry.....it has no vents on the decklid, as its a '68.
I was thinking of cutting the current decklid, but it may be more feasible (and less expensive?) to just get a newer decklid with the vents already
there.
Would there be any problems with the fitting of an earlier decklid on a '68 Bug?
I was thinking of a fan, but people have said it would redirect the heat back to the engine...
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Joel
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 04:21 PM |
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WHat kind of remote cooler have you got and where's it mounted?
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wesdem77
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 04:51 PM |
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I don't really know what kind of oil cooler it is, but I did get it from a reputable dealer, for performance engines.
As for the location, its on the floorpan, halfway up the car (outside, of course), so the air goes directly on it. I ran some high-temp hoses back to
the engine. It has good air flow, but just am a little worried without the vents.
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 Bizarre
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 05:04 PM |
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I cut holes under the number plate and nose
Hard to see that it has been done and could be enough air coming in
Also stops water coming in if you have your ventless early lid
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 05:09 PM |
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Thi is the rain louvre I use
Works well in HEAVY down pours
and these are the turbo tops
I dont use these now as the louvre works good enough to keep the water out
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Joel
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 07:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by wesdem77
I don't really know what kind of oil cooler it is, but I did get it from a reputable dealer, for performance engines.
As for the location, its on the floorpan, halfway up the car (outside, of course), so the air goes directly on it. I ran some high-temp hoses back to
the engine. It has good air flow, but just am a little worried without the vents.
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Thats ok, just wanted to make sure you didnt have it in the engine bay.
You would be amazed how many people do that then crack the shits cos their engine runs hotter than before they added the cooler 
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hellbugged
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 07:06 PM |
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You could mount the oil cooler right up the front of the car. Plenty running like that
Popping the bottom of the lid works a treat. More air for the fan and carbs without the weather scooping in
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wesdem77
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 08:04 PM |
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That's a good idea, Bizarre....lots of air going in!!
Yeah, I was thinking of popping the bottom out.....somebody told me to use a tennis ball !
Maybe fixing up some metal pieces to bring it out a couple of inches would work, bolting them on or something...
Ah, the joys of air-cooled! That's what I get for modifying a great design
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Bizarre
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| posted on September 9th, 2013 at 08:38 PM |
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if you want a stand off - contact Craig Torrens
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=96229
You can still lock your lid
Futue te ipsum!!!
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wesdem77
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| posted on September 10th, 2013 at 05:28 AM |
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Thanks Bizarre, I PM'd Craig, hopefully he still has some...
I appreciate all the advice from everyone. Its always nice to solve problems with the VW family forum 
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'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
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GottaSplit
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| posted on September 10th, 2013 at 09:32 AM |
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I have followed Barry (Bizarre) through the traffic, the slots he has are very inconspicuous, if you didnt know he did it you wouldnt that they are
there. Rain Louvre looks good too 8)
1960 11 Window
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Isola
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| posted on September 10th, 2013 at 10:17 PM |
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I love the rain deflectors and run one on my L. But on a hot day they can keep a bit of heat in. The fitting instructions say to take it off if it's
over 30°c. I store mine behind my back seat under my speaker shelf when we have long hot streaks with no rain.
Question for OP. Do you know for sure your engine is getting too hot? Or are you just being safe? You might be running at quite a good temperature
already with your cooler and extra capacity. Maybe pick up a laser thermometer and check it after a drive on a warm day? Food for thought if you
haven't checked your temps yet 
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Joel
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| posted on September 11th, 2013 at 10:04 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Isola
I love the rain deflectors and run one on my L. But on a hot day they can keep a bit of heat in. The fitting instructions say to take it off if it's
over 30°c. I store mine behind my back seat under my speaker shelf when we have long hot streaks with no rain.
Question for OP. Do you know for sure your engine is getting too hot? Or are you just being safe? You might be running at quite a good temperature
already with your cooler and extra capacity. Maybe pick up a laser thermometer and check it after a drive on a warm day? Food for thought if you
haven't checked your temps yet
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That is just the company that makes them covering their arse.
The vents in the decklid let cool air in not hot air out.
In bugs and Kombis the engine bay is sealed off from underneath so the fan is only drawing in cool air from the top side through those vents, all the
heat is sealed out the under side.
The big problem is people panic about oil temps and throw external oil coolers at them all the time with zero f#$%s given about head temps.
starving a doghouse fan for air with a non vented lid and keeping the oil cool with an external cooler is great way to bump up headtemps and not know
it without a head temp gauge, especially around this time of year in Cairns.
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matberry
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 09:01 AM |
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^^ yep, and cracked heads is the result !!
Put a 4 vent lid on or get more air in some how because the heads will run hot the first time it's driven any significant distance.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Camo
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 10:39 AM |
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Joel and Mat,
if I am reading it correctly, you are saying that not having a vented deck lid will result in engine over heating and cracked heads ????
Firstly, I don't have a head temperature sensor on my car so I don't know their temps when running. But being a 61 model Beetle there are no vents
in deck lid and my motor is not standard. I do have larger sump and external oil filter, but that's it.
Should I be worried or anyone else with an early Beetle 
Cheers, Kev
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 11:23 AM |
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Kev, maybe not worried, but be aware that a big motor gulps a lot more air than the 40hp motor that the air intake was designed for.....which can mean
'starving' the poor old cooling fan of air.
After cutting a hole each rear 1/4 panel [where the rain gutter meets the rear guard], and fitting air scoops [old front blinker covers], the oiltemp. dropped 15 deg.C. Cool air [not warm air from behind the engine] will help cool the motor. As I didn't have a cyl. head temp. gauge then, I
don't know [don't want to think about?] what happened there.
Last time out at Wakefield Park, the oil temp. was 90 deg.C, while cyl. head temp. was 350 deg.F. My motor is now 2276cc & 11.5 : 1 comp. Not
mucking about, either....1m 12.6sec.
Greg
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matberry
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 12:09 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Camo
Should I be worried or anyone else with an early Beetle
Cheers, Kev
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I would be.
I won't fit a wide fan cooling system to an early engine bay without providing more air intakes to any of mine or my customer cars. I feel that
strongly about it. On my new engine builds, I also do a lot of other things to the cooling system, but I want them to last for 100's of thousands of
kilometers.
Greg, not only is the engine consuming more air being larger in capacity and higher reving, but the wide doghouse fan is also 20% larger in capacity.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Joel
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 12:32 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Camo
Joel and Mat,
if I am reading it correctly, you are saying that not having a vented deck lid will result in engine over heating and cracked heads ????
Firstly, I don't have a head temperature sensor on my car so I don't know their temps when running. But being a 61 model Beetle there are no vents
in deck lid and my motor is not standard. I do have larger sump and external oil filter, but that's it.
Should I be worried or anyone else with an early Beetle
Cheers, Kev
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Agree with Matt above it is something I would address too given the $$ involved and increased air supply demands with an engine like yours.
Cracked heads would be one of the worser case scenarios.
It only becomes a problem once the fan RPMs get above the point that it is sucking in more air than what the stock vents can supply, at what RPMs that
happens though is anyones guess though.
Twin carbs add to the problem with the extra air they draw in too.
Just round town driving you probably wouldnt notice any real problem but at motorway speeds where revs consistanlty sit around 3K or more it would
possibly start getting toasty in there.
VW went 2 vents when doghouse cooling started then 4 vents the following year and kept going, the vent under the number plate light like Barrys came
in late 74.
Decklid vents tend to spoil the clean lines of the earlier Beetles but there are other ways around it.
Hidden under the number plate like Bizarres, or Daimo did have air scoops either side of his gearbox with hoses coming up into the engine bay through
the firewall tin.
The decklid can be propped open a bit at the bottom but I'm not wrapped in that idea as it would allow for hot air to be recirculated off the heads
and muffler.
When I had my old 1835 and 1776 motors with doghouse cooling and dual twin throat Webers, even with my 4 vent lid in summer I used to see 10-15f oil
temp drops on the motorway with stand offs on.
Hate to think what a non vented lid would have been like
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Isola
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 12:44 PM |
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Wow. I didn't realise that about the vents. Cheers for the info guys!
Does that mean that it's safe enough to leave my deflector on all time time?
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Camo
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 01:19 PM |
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Wow, that makes a lot more sense why you both push the extra deck lid vents - Thanks.
I might put a couple of these type access ports in and have a vented cover. Will serve several purposes, access to spark plugs, allow more air into
engine compartment and working on carbies etc.
Thanks again, Kev
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Bizarre
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 03:00 PM |
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Kev
Those Weber windows need covers.
The amount of water that comes in through the wheel well by driving through deep puddles is amazing
The filters are right next door.
I just have 2 off 25 mm holes each side and I can flood the filters with them.
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Camo
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| posted on September 12th, 2013 at 06:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
Kev
Those Weber windows need covers.
The amount of water that comes in through the wheel well by driving through deep puddles is amazing
The filters are right next door.
I just have 2 off 25 mm holes each side and I can flood the filters with them.
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Good thinking Baz, I could face the vents rearwards and that should stop water coming off the wheels or running down from top of guard and entering.
Also, I wouldn't do this at this stage but when I turbo it. But I will keep it in mind for the air filter placement when the time comes.
Cheers, Kev
EDIT: Before Ian or Rose put shit on me, I would just like to do it myself and add that it wont be driven in the rain unless I get
caught whilst out 
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esevwbits
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| posted on September 13th, 2013 at 09:16 AM |
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i have a louvered decklid to combat the heat.. its amazing the difference in temp.
i have a few of those temp sensor dipsticks available too to give you an idea of highway heat rises.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=92996
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wesdem77
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| posted on September 14th, 2013 at 09:01 AM |
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Great suggestions everyone!!
I really don't want to do bodywork for the scoops, but will try to locate a vented decklid like Esevwbits (is that custom?? did you cut them
yourself?)
I just picked the car up from the Gold Coast, and took two days to drive up to Cairns...1,800km! I stopped in Mick Motors and attached some stand-offs
before I left, and they definately did the trick! The engine kept cooler than I was used to, when it was in the Super bug.
No problems at all (well, besides the speedo stopping on me)...but, that's life of a vw fanatic. Met some great people along the way, loving
VWs!! Even some old-school bikers were impressed with the sound of
the engine!
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'68 Aussie convertible Beetle
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alien8
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| posted on September 14th, 2013 at 09:19 AM |
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The air coming out and the direction it takes is just as important as air coming in. The sum of all the little parts add up. Install as much of the
stock tin piece's as possible, if you haven't already. Those often missing little rear deflection tins at the rear cylinders, thermostat flaps even
if they are just wired open as they direct cooling air correctly over the heads/cylinders, tins under the cylinders between the pushrods, hoover bit
and running industrial tins if you are using j tubes. Even installing a FI shroud venturi ring has shown to help the cooling system. That combined
with the external cooler should have that puppy running well even on the hottest days.
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Bizarre
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| posted on September 14th, 2013 at 10:38 AM |
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^^^^ can I ask what you mean by the air coming out??
The air coming in either disappears into the the fan shrowd and goes out over the motor and heater boxes or it is swallowed up by the carbs
Futue te ipsum!!!
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alien8
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| posted on September 14th, 2013 at 11:06 AM |
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Haha, I mean air comes in the engine bay then fan. Then air goes out the shroud around the motor directed by tinware's. The point being gains in
cooling efficiency can be had by correctly directing the air out. Apologies if I was not clear.
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