| [ Total Views: 6725 | Total Replies: 30 | Thread Id: 104076 ] |
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 rhowde1
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| posted on November 15th, 2013 at 07:42 PM |
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Rear Mounted Radiator??? Any long time successes?
I've spent months scouring this and a couple of other websites for anyone successfully running a rear mounted radiator in a bug, over a period of
time. I've yet to find any one. I'd prefer running an above-the-transaxle setup if possible. If you have this type of cooling setup, could you share
your experiences and possibly pics? I'd like to use the car as a summer daily driver, so a solid low maintenance system is a must.
Thanks in advance for your feedback!
-Rob
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on November 15th, 2013 at 10:57 PM |
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midlifecrisis should chime in here, they're baja ran a rear mount radiator with no issues  Maybe sent em a pm.
This was on a baja, with the radiator mounted at teh rear of the barwork.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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rhowde1
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| posted on November 16th, 2013 at 02:43 AM |
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Thanks bajachris88, but I'm more looking for confirmation that there is ample airflow above the transmission to support sufficient cooling. Anyone
else?
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on November 16th, 2013 at 06:52 AM |
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Hi
Airflow under a Beetle is not ideal. I'm having brain fade but a guy on here did a rear mount in a bay Kombi very successfully, his setup is
different to what you will need but his attention to detail netted good results.
Have a read on this forum as well http://vwkd.com/
What sort of Beetle is it and what sort of motor are you planning to use?
Lou on here has rear mount in a Beetle sports sedan but it takes up the whole rear seat and he's had some cooling issues.
Steve
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rhowde1
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| posted on November 16th, 2013 at 05:02 PM |
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The beetle is a 72. The engine currently is a ported 12a. I will most likely change that up to a 13b TT once everything else is done. Little heat
generators they are. 
I'm not sure I've checked out that website yet. I'll dig in and see what I cant find.
Thanks!!
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on November 16th, 2013 at 05:41 PM |
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Hi
Is it a Super beetle or standard? Are you in Australia?
I'm not sure where you are located (please fill your profile, it helps to know where people are located), in NSW you must multiply the Beetles
standard tare weight by 3 for NA and 2.5 for turbo motors.
The heaviest Beetle sedan is a 1303 or L bug, they come in at 890 kgs.
So NA you can run a 12a which on a 1303 weight calculates out to 2670 cc max or turbo you can only run 2225 cc motor.
Steve
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rhowde1
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| posted on November 16th, 2013 at 05:59 PM |
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I'm actually from the US. My bug is a standard.
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on November 16th, 2013 at 06:03 PM |
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OK, well disregard what I said unless you live in a nanny state like I do
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ian.mezz
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| posted on November 16th, 2013 at 08:03 PM |
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radiators make a lot of heat , so you need to insulate the back of the car good, some people have radiators heating there homes 
A lot of people forget about serviceability and will it be easy to work on does it need to be removed to work on motor or trans etc.
good luck
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tweety
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| posted on November 16th, 2013 at 08:28 PM |
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For what its worth, not much likely, but I ran a Toyota MR2 (ebay brand new) above my transaxle (auto) in my VW trike (Subaru ea81 conversion). Much
more air flow than a standard beetle and still both thermo fans (12") came on at 100kph every 3 kms or so on a day of 22 degrees.
Eventually an Alfa 33 radiator went to the front and no issues.
The Alfa33 early type is no longer available in Oz. The later one is 80mm taller and 50mm slimmer fully imported only.
Member "Joel" from memory has had an Alfa early type radiator rear mounted in his bug. He is da MAN to speak to. Has helped me heaps on my
supercharger.
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rhowde1
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| posted on November 17th, 2013 at 09:01 AM |
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Tweety,
Your setup is totally different than mine, so there is much to compare with. Joel's setup was a BIG radiator up front. Its not looking good for a rear mounted radiator.
Thanks!
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Joel
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| posted on November 17th, 2013 at 10:01 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rhowde1
Joel's setup was a BIG radiator up front. Its not looking good for a rear mounted radiator.
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It's not mine you're thinking of.
My Alfa radiator is one of the smallest radiators you can run.
It's almost half the size of your current Jeep Cherokee radiator.
The only way you are going to get a rear mount to work well at free way speeds is to scoop lots of air in to it.
It can be done but in a Beetle the results aren't pretty.
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rhowde1
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| posted on November 17th, 2013 at 10:14 AM |
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Hey Joel,
I must have pulled up the wrong pic. I'm starting to see that. I really didnt want to run lines to the front, but I'm not seeing an alternative.
About your alfa radiator. What model is it and how well does it work? Thanks for chiming in!
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Joel
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| posted on November 17th, 2013 at 10:32 AM |
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Its worked well for over 3 years on a high compression 2.5 with A/C condenser in front of it.
It's for 79-90 Alfa 33, sprint and Sud but it seems they are impossible to get in the US and even now here in Oz (if anyone one wants one let me
know)
I would go slightly bigger with a rotary engine as they run slightly warmer.
There are easier to get and cheaper alternatives to the Alfa rad.
Mk1 Scirocco/Golf 8v are similar size but just slightly bigger and you can get the thick core racing aluminium ones which is what I'm running in mine
now.
THey fit a standard beetle front wheel well nicely.
THe only time my fans run is after I've stopped moving for more than 4-5 mins, when I'm driving they never come on and it just sits on the
thermostat opening temp.
running coolant lines to the front and mounting a rad in the spare wheel well is a pain but it has lots of benefits.
The long lines means you have much more coolant capacity, conductive pipe work means free extra cooling in the road draft and the radiator is where
all the natural air flow is so just a small intake hole is all you need.
This is all my old rotary powered bug had for air intake, with bumpers on it and the mesh painted black you couldnt even notice the intake.
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rhowde1
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| posted on November 18th, 2013 at 04:28 PM |
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This is probably how I'ts going to be. I'll probably try the scoop method under the apron first, and then if that doesn't supply enough air, go to
your setup.
On a side note, what did you think about the move from rotary to Suby? I've toy'd with it, but already having the rotary conversion, its hard to
walk away.
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Joel
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| posted on November 18th, 2013 at 06:40 PM |
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Im not a good one to ask as I'm not a rotary guy at all and bought that bug with the intention of swapping it to Subi as it was already setup for
water cooled.
The rotary screws with the handling too much, fine in a straight line but it throws off the center of gravity, not enough to worry some people but I
like my cars to corner really well.
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veedubberpaul58
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| posted on November 19th, 2013 at 05:33 AM |
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Try thjis for a bit of info
http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/
I also run a radiator on the back of my manx, have done for about 5 - 6 years .....relies on the thermofan a bit more then i would have hoped but I am
still yet to play with different things like restrictors like the boys in the USA and maybe an aftermarket thermofan controller in place of the ECU
control off the water temp switch on the coolant manifold.....which is setup to work perfect in the conventional format but may not be ideal for less
airflow in the low pressure system at the back of the car....other things like running a rear window may help with my setup but its done its job so
far ...I just need some time to tinker....
the Geko Ute buggy also has a radiator above the gearbox without issues....bit of a trick to bleed and burp but there seems to be enough airflow
around there.....the arguement that airflow pushes up past the gearbox and over the motor seems to be somewhat valid.....
all of these vehicles have been on the road for quite some years....theres no doubt that up front is optimal but theres limited options without
hacking into the looks of your car...from an offroad perspective I put mine up the back to avoid catastrophic damage in the event of driver error 
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rhowde1
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| posted on November 19th, 2013 at 09:22 AM |
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While your car is too different of a setup, Bajawes is almost exactly what I am looking for. I'm not sure if it being a baja will change the air flow
much, but its the first thing I've seen that at least validates a possibility of it working.
Thanks for that!
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lou0060
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| posted on November 19th, 2013 at 10:09 PM |
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if I was to do it all again I would stick the radiator in the front. I think my problem is that with the twin turbos running on a race track at 6000
rpm plus the heat generated by the turbos and the air going thru the radiator is just too much to get rid off. Last weekend I ran my car without the
whaletail and just had the whole rear exposed and it still got hot but did take a couple of laps before it got to 120 degrees. I get enough air
across the radiator with my two scoops but I am not getting the air out the back efficiently enough to keep temps under control. (handled like shit
too!)
I'm not giving up though and am about to start work on reducing the hot air inside the engine area as well as re-route the turbo cooling lines etc.
Oh what fun!
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising 
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust 
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief
1960 beetle - old school low & slow  |
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rhowde1
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| posted on November 20th, 2013 at 01:33 AM |
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What kind of radiator are you running? Any chance of pics of your setup? My engine wouldnt put out the heat that yours is. At this point, I feel like
I'm grasping at straws to keep my rear radiator setup, but I really dont want to have to string hoses to the front of the car and then hack up the
front sheet metal.
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Shuffs
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| posted on November 20th, 2013 at 10:33 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rhowde1
What kind of radiator are you running? Any chance of pics of your setup? My engine wouldnt put out the heat that yours is. At this point, I feel like
I'm grasping at straws to keep my rear radiator setup, but I really dont want to have to string hoses to the front of the car and then hack
up the front sheet metal.
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If you run the two lines in rigid pipe under the car,to and from the radiator/engine,then revert to radiator hose for the last couple of bends,it
looks OK.The wheel well can be cut out in one piece (to accommodate the radiator)which makes for easy reversal if you ever have the need to.When you
look at the black bug that Joel posted in your thread,plus Joel and Steves current bugs,I would say the Hacking is pretty minimal,much less than what
you will have to go through,to get this to work.Your biggest enemy is the fact that hot air rises,and the reasonably encolsed rear end of a standard
beetle is going to fight you all the way.My two cents
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lou0060
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| posted on November 20th, 2013 at 09:06 PM |
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seach tampico racecar lots of photos there. Agree with Shuffs it's getting all that hot air out that's the problem.
1971 karmann ghia Cabrio - Cruising
1963 beetle Sunroof - gathering dust
1968 race beetle - twin turbo Subaru - stress relief
1960 beetle - old school low & slow |
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Baja Wes
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| posted on November 26th, 2013 at 02:16 PM |
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This is a good summary of my V6 conversion;
http://www.offroadvw.net/bajawes/Big%20Bad%20Baja%20-%20Part%202.pdf
I found on the highway it would get a little hot as the area above the gearbox would be a deadzone of air flow. I put this little temporary scoop on
the trailing arm and it works so well it's been there ever since. The V6 has been in the car for 10years now. I unbolt it when I go offroad or up the
beach.
The hot air goes out over the top of the engine. In a beetle you'd need decklid lifters and/or additional vents in the decklid.
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bevelhead
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| posted on December 6th, 2013 at 12:00 AM |
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If you end up with a rear radiator, the xj jeep cherokee rad from about 83 to 86 is almost the same dimensions as the beetle firewall, if you can fit
this with enough space and pressurise it with air from underneath or from naca style ducts in panels behind rear side windows it may work for you, the
heat should flow over motor and be drawn out bottom of beaver tail which is a low pressure area.
I have not run this but this is what i set up with subaru motor in a 64 beetle before changing my mind and sticking it in a bay window, i still have
the jeep rad in the rear, it is not sealed and cools ok when moving, i hope you try the rear set up and succeed.
Here is a rear rad setup
http://bb.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions-viewthread?forum=8&thread=89
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Joel
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| posted on December 6th, 2013 at 09:00 AM |
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I've chatted with Andrew that owns and built that bug a few times before.
It was a really neat conversion but the problem with it was the fan turned on after 5 mins and stayed on.
Worked ok for for moderate driving but was speed limited by the fan, and if the fan burned out from running continuesly he was stranded.
Hes actually doing a new project, same bug and this time fitting an EJ22 which he is determined to fit without doing any body mods.
Taken a Jeep Cherokee radiator and "curved" it
So it fits in the engine bay
Good on him for thinking outside the box, will be interesting to see his results.
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wild baja
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| posted on December 6th, 2013 at 11:28 AM |
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Hi Rhowde
Yeh a rear mount radiator is do-able. mine is a Baja as smileys says but quite suitable conversion for a std beetle rear end. I used a alloy
aftermarket chinese V8 jeep Cherokee 3 row radiator horizontally over the subi EJ25 engine, it is all covered by a fibreglass beetle / Porsche replica
whale tail hinged bonnet. the jeep radiator doesn't have a cap housing with was ideal as I welded a billet alloy cap housing into the side of the
radiator which pokes thru the whale tail.
works great, plenty of air flow over the roof and caught by the whale tail. I will add some photos tonight.
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surfbeetle
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 05:22 PM |
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Here's some reading for you
68 started with a rear and then switched
http://www.dunebuggyarchives.com/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=1491
Green bug shown earlier with rear radiator:
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=143859
Ghia with rear rad:
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=141390
front mounted:
http://germanlook.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10369
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on January 7th, 2014 at 09:49 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by rhowde1
I'd like to use the car as a summer daily driver, so a solid low maintenance system is a must.
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Had the rad in the back and in the front of the same car. Front worked a heap better. Not saying it can't be done in the back, but I am saying
this...
Save yourself a lot of time and fluffing around. Put it in the front. 
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on January 9th, 2014 at 04:44 PM |
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"Put it in the front"
"Put it in the front"
come on everyone, you know the words
"Put it in the front"...........
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GeorgeL
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| posted on January 14th, 2014 at 05:16 AM |
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If the goal is to preserve the original bodywork as much as possible why not try a "whale-tail" engine lid and put the radiator inside?
Pressure recovery would not be optimum, but at least it would prevent recirculation. The flow might actually be upward through the radiator since the
air speed above the tail would be greater than the air speed below.
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