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 ancientbugger
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| posted on March 26th, 2014 at 09:49 AM |
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L jetronic ECU
Does anyone know who or where would be able to check the ecu from my cab? I've just rebuilt the engine and all the cables/plugs were tagged so no
confusion when putting back but engine wouldn't start. Ignition has been checked and rechecked and checked again, the double relay has been checked
too many times, the fuel pump is putting out the pressure when it's turning over and every wire from the ecu plug to the sensors have been checked
but no signal is getting to the injectors. The injectors are not blocked and I am at my wits end and my wife wants a divorce.....so I suppose it's
not all bad
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vduboy
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| posted on March 26th, 2014 at 11:01 AM |
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Is that the early mechanical injection type? My friend had a bay with a early suby motor in it that needed a valve undone on the fuel rail to purge
the air as he had run it out of fuel... took me a while to find it.. worth a try..
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
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vlad01
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| posted on March 26th, 2014 at 11:17 AM |
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That is a later type EFI with vane type AFM if I am not mistaken.
The injector are actuated by the ECU grounding them. One side of the injectors should be live with 12V all the time when ignition is on.
check its live, if not, check relays, fuses and a like. Otherwise there may be a trigger input signal missing to the ECU.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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ancientbugger
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| posted on March 26th, 2014 at 11:45 AM |
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From what I've read no part of the FI is fused and I've checked the relays plus I have also read that the ecu hardly ever is the reason.....mind you
that is "hardly ever". As I've said I have checked everything else as far as I can see so it6 just leaves the ecu. Mind you Vlad I didn't know
about the eco earthing the injectors so that may give me something else to play with.
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vlad01
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| posted on March 26th, 2014 at 12:47 PM |
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I can't see there not being fuses on the power side for the EFI system. They should be before the relays.
On 2nd thoughts, The D jet system have the injectors grounded to the engine case and power it pulsed from the ECU.
If L jet is the same ( I would be surprised if it was) could have injector grounds if it does used them and that is a common issue on the Type 3 with
D jet
I worked on D Jetronic (type 3) and K Jetronic ( VK commodore) K Jetronic looks very similar to L jet so I assume ?? it should have live injectors,
ground switched by ECU.
Worth checking both scenarios. Can you tell me which grounding system it uses?
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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ancientbugger
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| posted on March 29th, 2014 at 12:02 PM |
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Right, I've just checked the injector plugs, with starter turning over I'm getting both contacts in the plugs as continuous live, not on and off as
I expected for maybe one of the contacts? So any ideas?
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vlad01
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| posted on March 29th, 2014 at 02:20 PM |
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the pulse width may be too wide to actually measure when they are not on as you are in the starting mode (wider pulse width, for starting enrichment).
What are are you using to measure the pulse?
71 notchback,
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ancientbugger
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| posted on March 29th, 2014 at 08:16 PM |
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At the moment I'm just using a simple circuit tester so 'pulse widths' etc is way beyond my capabilities but the question still is where do I get
the ECU checked and/or replaced.
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psimitar
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| posted on March 30th, 2014 at 01:27 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ancientbugger
At the moment I'm just using a simple circuit tester so 'pulse widths' etc is way beyond my capabilities but the question still is where do I get
the ECU checked and/or replaced.
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You'll need to 1st, look on the tinterweb and yellow pages for you nearest bunch of Bosch retailers/service centres and 2nd) ring each to see if they
have the service equipment for that type of EFI as being such an old system many will not have them diagnostic computer kicking around anymore.
For DIY testing of the injector I'd use a light bulb. The injectors should be using a 12v pulse but could be 5V. Anyhow, try a 12v tail light bulb.
I'm hoping that the pulses should at least make the bulb glow dull.
You can also test the injector itself by directly connecting 12V to it. YOu can then hear the solenoid click. Make sure all engine and sensor earths
are good as well as the engine to chassis earth.
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ancientbugger
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| posted on March 30th, 2014 at 09:26 AM |
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I've checked the injectors and they all work fine (clicking) and they're unblocked. I'll continue to play with it.
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AA003
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| posted on March 30th, 2014 at 09:29 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitarYou can also test the injector itself by directly connecting 12V to it.
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I dont think that the injectors are 12v. That may burn them out.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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ancientbugger
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| posted on March 30th, 2014 at 12:02 PM |
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Latest!! I've found a broken wire that goes into the series resistance block. There are 5 wires going to the block, one to the centre and one each to
the cylindrical parts around it (please excuse ignorance here) and it's one of the cylindrical 'wires' that's busted. 1/ How the f*ck do get to
this block without removing the engine? and 2/ Would this one wire stop the whole shebang from firing?
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ancientbugger
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| posted on March 30th, 2014 at 12:43 PM |
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Right having removed this from the car (and a fair bit of skin) would this stop the car from firing up?
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ancientbugger
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| posted on March 30th, 2014 at 04:25 PM |
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Sorted this but still dead  Pumps is going when the flap in the
air intake is opened just nothing at the injectors, I'm now getting very pissed off at this, the trouble is whenever there's a problem with the FI
I'm very tempted to just replace the whole lot with a carb and end the worry but when it's going it's just so smooth plus it's keeping it
original.
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vlad01
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| posted on March 30th, 2014 at 07:56 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitarYou can also test the injector itself by directly connecting 12V to it.
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I dont think that the injectors are 12v. That may burn them out.
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injectors are all 12V
71 notchback,
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vlad01
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| posted on March 30th, 2014 at 07:58 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ancientbugger
Sorted this but still dead Pumps is going when the flap in the
air intake is opened just nothing at the injectors, I'm now getting very pissed off at this, the trouble is whenever there's a problem with the FI
I'm very tempted to just replace the whole lot with a carb and end the worry but when it's going it's just so smooth plus it's keeping it
original.
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lol, Thats something i do with carbs. chuck em in the bin lol.
EFi is easy!
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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psimitar
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| posted on March 31st, 2014 at 09:10 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitarYou can also test the injector itself by directly connecting 12V to it.
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I dont think that the injectors are 12v. That may burn them out.
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That's why I said in my reply that they could be 12 or 5 volt switched. If the owner found they were 5v and then used 12v it would be silly. They
didn't sound like they needed to be spoon fed
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psimitar
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| posted on March 31st, 2014 at 09:27 PM |
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Try reading thru these to help diagnose
L jetronic manual 1
Manual 2
manual 3
You should remove the fuel rail and turn the pump on cos just cos you can hear it don't mean it's working plus this test the pressure reg is flowing
too.
There's only 4 or 5 inputs to the ECU so if the fuel is getting thru then if the inputs are all good it has to be the ECU.
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AA003
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| posted on April 1st, 2014 at 10:14 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vlad01
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitarYou can also test the injector itself by directly connecting 12V to it.
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I dont think that the injectors are 12v. That may burn them out.
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injectors are all 12V
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Resistors to drop the voltage.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
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ancientbugger
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| posted on April 1st, 2014 at 10:20 AM |
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I'm going to take the whole FI wiring loom out and check that ...again. Making sure all plugs are correct and labelled and going to the correct
numbers on the ecu plug. I keep reading all over the web that the Ecu very rarely packs up and I have a sneaking suspicion that it's just maybe one
wire that's causing it as it was working perfectly before.
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 matberry
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| posted on April 1st, 2014 at 11:30 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ancientbugger
I'm going to take the whole FI wiring loom out and check that ...again. Making sure all plugs are correct and labelled and going to the correct
numbers on the ecu plug. I keep reading all over the web that the Ecu very rarely packs up and I have a sneaking suspicion that it's just maybe one
wire that's causing it as it was working perfectly before.
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I agree with this, esp since now your pump doesn't run at ign on, as it should
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ancientbugger
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| posted on April 1st, 2014 at 06:34 PM |
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The pump does run as it's supposed to Matt, that was one of the first things I checked. I checked the pressure when it was turning over on the
starter and that was fine just the injectors not working so back to the start and systematically check everything again. Oh well the loom is out so
tomorrows job is checking, oh the joy 
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psimitar
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| posted on April 1st, 2014 at 06:48 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ancientbugger
The pump does run as it's supposed to Matt, that was one of the first things I checked. I checked the pressure when it was turning over on the
starter and that was fine just the injectors not working so back to the start and systematically check everything again. Oh well the loom is out so
tomorrows job is checking, oh the joy
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Cool bean of you're getting pressure at the injectors 
Being so few inputs then gotta be wiring or dead sensor.
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ragged
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| posted on April 1st, 2014 at 07:21 PM |
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The double relay provides power to the fuel pump on start up and also provides power to the injectors via the resistors.
Just checked a wiring diagram and terminal 86b of the double relay is connected to terminal 43 on the pre-resister block...Dave
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grumble
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| posted on April 1st, 2014 at 07:32 PM |
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Silly as it sounds is the earth wire making a good connection? I used to use a LED plugged into the injector socket to ensure power and if you pull
the injectors out of one side you can watch them spray into a bottle whilst cranking as shown in the manual.The other thing to check is the cold
start injector,if this doesn't work it is very hard to get going.If you need some copies of the test sequence let me know . Cheers Les
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ancientbugger
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| posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 09:34 AM |
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The double relay is working fine, that, I believe was the first thing I checked (I now have 4 relays here!) They seem to be the main culprit for L
jetronic mishaps so it seems. The earth is something else I have to look at but the continuity of the wires in the loom is my job for this morning.
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ancientbugger
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| posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 11:14 AM |
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right, all the wires check out good BUT the wires for the Throttle position sensor ("Throttle valve switch/ Full throttle switch" depending on
which diagram you're looking at) positions 3 & 18 on the ECU plug aren't there? There appears only 2 wires in the plug for the switch one of
which goes to earth the other I haven't found the other end yet. One diagram I have downloaded from The Samba appears to be from the Bosch handbook
has the wires from the cpu to the TPS then back to the cpu via positions 3 & 18.....now Vlad please explain to me how is this all easier than a
carb!!!!!
The other end from the plug in the TPS goes to the EGR valve plug!?!
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vlad01
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| posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 02:00 PM |
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its still easier imho. when the loom is botched or stuffed or you just want a conversion/modification, I just make my own new looms and systems from
the top of my head.
I never been able to work out why carbs dont run right so I gave up on carbs years ago.
learn the system, understand the logic because it is literally logic and its easy!
do you mind posting up the wiring diagram and posting a few pics?
its kinda hard to imagine what you are looking at given the terminology barrier.
71 notchback,
Past owner of, 70 NB, 73 SB and 72 FB TLE |
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ancientbugger
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| posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 06:46 PM |
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http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/931096.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/diagram.jpg
These are the diagrams I'm going from, please note that on the lower diagram there is no wire coming from 3 and 18 on my ecu plug. Hope this makes
sense.
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psimitar
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| posted on April 2nd, 2014 at 09:34 PM |
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I found this on Samba FI
diagram
The second link you gave was a very small picture I couldn't enlarge.
Anyhow, looks like when the TPS is active, from foot on accelerator, this activates the EGR and allows the cases gasses be drawn into the air intake.
No throttle means no recirc of these gasses. So this ain't a worry for now if it don't work.
88b of the double relay provides power to the injectors and the ECU grounds the injectors to fire them so with ign on 88b should be live.
cranking the starter activates the Thermo/Cold start timer.
27 of the Airflow meter seems to be the potentiometer of the vane within the meter to give engine load data to the ECU. The meter gets power from the
ECU but the meter also activates the second relay within the dual relay to operate the Aux air regulator. This will be for engine overrun more than
likely.
And then 86c of the dual relay powers the ign coil and either the ECU fires the coil or no1 ECU input gives the engine speed.
So I believe during cranking the ECU will activate the Aux Air Regulator so the engine can breathe properly cos the AFM won't be moving too much.
Then so long as the ign coil is giving an engine speed signal the ECU will fire the injectors.
So that's my take on what should fire the injectors
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