| [ Total Views: 1062 | Total Replies: 29 | Thread Id: 106634 ] |
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 landfall
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 07:26 PM |
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Oil Leak
I have just noticed an oil leak on my type 1 DP 1600 bug.
From the looks of things it may be coming from the bottom and top of jug number 2.
Am I correct in this assumption, and if so, what is the fix please.
Ken[img]C:UsersKenPicturesVW HerbieP1020357resized[/img][img]C:UsersKenPicturesVW HerbieP1020358resized[/img]
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landfall
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 07:28 PM |
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[img]C:UsersKenPicturesVW HerbieP1020357resized[/img]
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nils
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 07:58 PM |
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Oil cooler or It's seals perhaps? That would still be an easy fix. any chance of looking under the fan shroud? (Its been a very long time since I've
had an engine bay)
The cylinder leaking would be a pain
Quit calling rust patina
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landfall
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 08:20 PM |
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It's on the opposite side to the oil cooler and there is no sign of an oil leak on cylinders 3 & 4. But that does not mean that it could not be
the oil cooler, I guess.
I am new to the ways of a VW bug, so any information is appreciated.
Does the engine have to come out for the oil cooler seals?
Ken
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 matberry
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 08:47 PM |
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Yes the engine needs to come out for the cooler seals but IMO your leak isn't the cooler seals. As you said, it's the wrong side. My guess isn't
good news. It could be the cylinder base seals but I feel more likely some or all of the 6 big M12 case bolts. It is a major pain that indicates major
wear to the crankcase and the only real remidy is a complete engine rebuild.
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landfall
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 09:05 PM |
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Matt,
Are there any other tell tale signs for crankcase wear? At the moment it is a very slight leak, annoying more than messy.
The car would do less than 2,000km's per year.
Ken
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vduboy
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 09:13 PM |
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Ken, Excessive crank endfloat, loose heads, loose tappets (cam bearing wear). All things I found when I stripped the last motor I built, the cases
were pretty worn but salvageable. As Mr Berry said engine build is the remedy. 
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
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landfall
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 09:20 PM |
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Thanks,
I will check for end float on the crank. When I checked the tappets last week they where tight.
I tend to agree with the prognosis though, unfortunately.
But I must ask, why doea only one side leak and in only the one spot?
Ken
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vduboy
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 09:39 PM |
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Could just be a leak base seal/gasket, but thats motor out anyway, not sure you could do anything about the big M12 nuts with it installed, on a side
note, I think I read somewhere that the paper gaskets under the barrels are no longer used? Just sealant? Can a grown up please correct me if I am
wrong..? 
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
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matberry
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| posted on July 16th, 2014 at 10:19 PM |
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If it's only a slight leak it might be the cylinder base. You need to clean it spotlessly clean and then run the engine and track the leak. IF it's
one of the main case studs it is caused by internal wear of the case at the main bearing journals. Starting with the centre main, the case can get
pounded due to a multitude of factors. The wear is fretting of the case halves that support the main bearings and as they are pressure fed with oil,
the oil can come out the studs, often the nut can actually be loose due to the case material being fretted away. Tightening them back up may help, or
may nip the bearing onto the crank, then disaster is likely to be imenent (sp?)
In other words, lets hope it's the cylinder base
And yes kiddies  , definately no paper gasket to be used under the
cylinder, just a good sealant. The paper gasket (every gasket kit still comes with them :-/) crushes over time and the cylinder head bolts loose
tension as a result. Head to barrel seal is which is metal on metal is then usually compromised.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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nils
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| posted on July 17th, 2014 at 05:25 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by landfall
It's on the opposite side to the oil cooler
Ken
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Oops, my bad. Just feel silly now.
Quit calling rust patina
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landfall
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| posted on July 17th, 2014 at 06:21 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
If it's only a slight leak it might be the cylinder base. You need to clean it spotlessly clean and then run the engine and track the leak. IF it's
one of the main case studs it is caused by internal wear of the case at the main bearing journals. Starting with the centre main, the case can get
pounded due to a multitude of factors. The wear is fretting of the case halves that support the main bearings and as they are pressure fed with oil,
the oil can come out the studs, often the nut can actually be loose due to the case material being fretted away. Tightening them back up may help, or
may nip the bearing onto the crank, then disaster is likely to be imenent (sp?)
In other words, lets hope it's the cylinder base
And yes kiddies , definately no paper gasket to be used under the
cylinder, just a good sealant. The paper gasket (every gasket kit still comes with them :-/) crushes over time and the cylinder head bolts loose
tension as a result. Head to barrel seal is which is metal on metal is then usually compromised.
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Thanks everyone,
Matt,
I think you may be on the money about the disintegration of paper gasket under the cylinder. That is where the oil appears to be coming from. The
engine has been previously worked on and judging by a lot of the other work done on this car, not by a professional.
I would assume that this will still mean engine out to rectify the problem.
Would this entail removing the barrels and cleaning the base area up?
Also if this is indeed the case, then it is not going to hurt to keep driving it for a while yet. Leak is not too bad at this stage.
Ken
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matberry
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| posted on July 17th, 2014 at 08:58 AM |
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Your onto it Ken, engine removal is required, heads and cylinders removed for cleaning and resealing. As a professional I would also recommend head
servicing and reringing/hone pistons and cylinders or replacement also being a possible requirement. As long as you dont run low on oil, it will
definately keep running.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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landfall
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| posted on July 17th, 2014 at 09:38 AM |
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Thanks Matt, much appreciated.
Will give it another clean and recheck, just to be sure.
Uses a negligible amount of oil at this stage.
In the second photo you can see that the oil appears to be coming from under the cylinder. Unless of course it can travel uphill, be blown up there or
is being forced under pressure up there.
This is certainly a big learning curve. Only had the car for six weeks and there is a multitude of things to fix.
Best one so far is the 5/16" fuel line on the fuel pump and carby 1/4" fittings?
Ken
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matberry
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| posted on July 17th, 2014 at 08:22 PM |
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Ahhh, the imperial fuel line trip. A pet hate of mine and something I will tend to disagree with many on as I like the OG cloth covered METRIC German
hose. I believe the cloth helps to keep engine heat from the rubber. Most important tho is the correct 5.5mm internal hose.
The oil could have come from the upper case bolts, there are 6, and I assumed a higher quantity of oil leaking initially due to the dry/cleanlyness of
the rest of the engine block and the wetness and oil drops elsewhere.
Good luck with the investigations
Matt
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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landfall
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| posted on July 20th, 2014 at 03:28 PM |
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Thanks for the good luck, I think I will need all I can get in spades.
Here is another photo of the leaks, this time I have high lighted the oil coming from what appears to be between the cylinder and head.
I have thoroughly cleaned up the area and will continue to monitor the area.
Ken[img]C:UsersKenPicturesVW HerbieOil Leaks.jpg[/img]
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ACE76
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| posted on July 21st, 2014 at 01:05 PM |
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Sorry, you have another problem: Someone has shoved a screwdriver into the engine!
ACE 30 & ACE 40 oil: specially formulated for your Air Cooled Engine...
Delivery free Outer Eastern Melb. & Dandenong Ranges.
from$19 for 2.5L (spot-on for 1 fill, re-use bottle to measure), or $29 for 5L (2 fills)
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landfall
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| posted on July 21st, 2014 at 01:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ACE76
Sorry, you have another problem: Someone has shoved a screwdriver into the engine!
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Gosh, haven't you heard of adjustable oil pressure?
Ken
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ian.mezz
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| posted on July 21st, 2014 at 06:48 PM |
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motor has to come out your.
your heads appear to be leaking 
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landfall
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| posted on July 21st, 2014 at 08:00 PM |
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Thanks, a conclusion unfortunately that I have come up with.
Currently looking at my options on what to do while I tackle this problem.
Not familiar with these engines and wondering if it's just a clean up, maybe a hone, new rings, head replacement or overhaul, then put it back
together.
I have checked flywheel endfloat and it is very good.
I am in two minds at the moment. Completely overhaul the top end with new performance cylinder heads, etc or do a cheap job and clean up the problem
area.
Not knowing the common problems I am unsure if the cylinder barrels can be warped or could the heads be warped? Thus causing the leaks>
Any opinions and advice gratefully received.
Matt has given me some good advice to chew on.
Ken
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on July 21st, 2014 at 09:23 PM |
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Your easiest 1st option would be to just give the motor a head torque and good degrease and monitor it.
Save your money for building a completely separate motor to this one.
Chances are you will build a motor with a different crank, rods, Piston and barrels, heads, flywheel, clutch etc etc so its pointless pulling this one
down to then remove or not use most of the parts......keep this one together as a spare.
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landfall
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| posted on July 22nd, 2014 at 06:31 AM |
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Thanks Craig for your input.
I would like to do that because it would give me more time for the rebuild, but unfortunately there are too many hurdles to get over.
I am a pensioner and live in a small unit with an even smaller garage. Space is at a premium, no space for a spare engine unless I keep Herbie outside
and that means I will have no space for our daily drive. Even when I do remove the engine I will be taking up the garage space for a working area.
The other hurdle is to find a spare engine. Not an easy task in Tasmania, apart from the extra cost.
Will still give it some serious thought though, because the advantages of having plenty of time to work on an engine is obvious.
Ken
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matberry
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| posted on July 22nd, 2014 at 08:36 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Your easiest 1st option would be to just give the motor a head torque and good degrease and monitor it.
Save your money for building a completely separate motor to this one.
Chances are you will build a motor with a different crank, rods, Piston and barrels, heads, flywheel, clutch etc etc so its pointless pulling this one
down to then remove or not use most of the parts......keep this one together as a spare.
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x2
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landfall
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| posted on July 22nd, 2014 at 09:29 AM |
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OK, once again thanks for sound advice, will have to find spare engine.
Degreased and cleaned engine. Have run it and found that the leak is from No 2 just above the case nut, you can see it ever so slightly bubbling with
the engine running.
Head torque job coming up.
Ken
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ian.mezz
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| posted on July 22nd, 2014 at 03:07 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by landfall
OK, once again thanks for sound advice, will have to find spare engine.
Degreased and cleaned engine. Have run it and found that the leak is from No 2 just above the case nut, you can see it ever so slightly bubbling with
the engine running.
Head torque job coming up.
Ken
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just be careful on doing the heads up, they pull studs on old motors , then its a bigger job.
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landfall
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| posted on July 22nd, 2014 at 05:01 PM |
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Thanks, hoping to keep it going without much hassle until later in the year, by then I will have decided what to do.
Expect to do a maximum of 1,000km's, more like 500.
Ken
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matberry
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| posted on July 22nd, 2014 at 07:11 PM |
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It looks like an 8 mm stud case so pulling studs hopefully won't be an issue. By your description of "oil bubbling" from under the barrels, I'd
plan on removing the heads, barrels and pistons for a decent job otherwise you'll be removing the tin and tensioning heads, adjusting valves,
replacing gaskets etc, and it'll still leak oil under the cylinder. This are gets hosed with oil from the crankshaft and will continue to leak with
the retension.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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landfall
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| posted on July 22nd, 2014 at 08:17 PM |
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Thanks Matt,
I agree with you entirely. Currently I am leaning towards new barrels/pistons, heads, rockers, pushrods, tubes, as previously suggested.
I'm not after a racer but a good performing, reliable bug. The bottom end seems to be OK, but of course I will check it out.
Pity you don't live closer you don't want a holiday on sunny, but
cool Tasmania?
Ken
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takis
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| posted on July 28th, 2014 at 04:54 PM |
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What engine oil are you using?
Avoid synthetic oil if you plan on driving while you get the $ together to tackle the engine repair, it seems synthetic can find gaskets that aren't
100% causing these issues.
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landfall
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| posted on July 28th, 2014 at 07:41 PM |
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Good point takis, but I am using Nulon 15/40, not sure if it's a semi synthetic though. Will check tomorrow and replace if it is.
Ken
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