| [ Total Views: 1135 | Total Replies: 19 | Thread Id: 107037 ] |
|
|
 ancientbugger
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1986
Threads: 191
Registered: March 24th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: sunshine coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
|
| posted on August 30th, 2014 at 05:12 PM |
|
|
Fuel injection double relays
Does anyone here have a clue why the double relays on my 79 cabriolet only seem to last for about 2 years? when they do stop working it seems to
happen when the car hasn't been used for a while, I'm talking maybe for a week or two. It's very frustrating as when it's running it goes like a
dream then a week or so later it's not starting at all. All fuses are intact just no power comes from the relay (redblue wire) to the pump whereas I
get power from the starter (redblack) to the relay. This is probably the 5th relay in about 12 years and each one so far has to come from the US, very
frustrating. Btw the power from the relay to the pump was checked at the relay so wire breakage is not the problem.
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on August 30th, 2014 at 06:18 PM |
|
|
Depends how the relay is made. I'd think it'd be a single solenoid with dual contacts.
Crack it open and have a look see inside. It could be that the starter and fuel pump are on a common rail and the starter contact is stopping the pump
contact making contactcos it's bent.
Just an idea but looking inside will give a better idea as to why they fail.
madness is in the eye of the beholder  |
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on August 31st, 2014 at 01:28 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Depends how the relay is made. I'd think it'd be a single solenoid with dual contacts.
|
No it's a double relay. 2 coils
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
vduboy
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 702
Threads: 41
Registered: October 6th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Dying to get more buggy building time..
|
| posted on August 31st, 2014 at 01:45 PM |
|
|
Are they just a pair of normal relays in the one box? Narva does something similar if so, are you getting new relays each time or second handies?
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on August 31st, 2014 at 10:59 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Depends how the relay is made. I'd think it'd be a single solenoid with dual contacts.
|
No it's a double relay. 2 coils
|
So not an SPDT then but a DPDT? If it has seperate actuating inputs then defo a DPDT relay and hence a coil has failed or the contact has burnt out.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on September 1st, 2014 at 05:42 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Depends how the relay is made. I'd think it'd be a single solenoid with dual contacts.
|
No it's a double relay. 2 coils
|
So not an SPDT then but a DPDT? If it has seperate actuating inputs then defo a DPDT relay and hence a coil has failed or the contact has burnt out.
|
Neither, it's a double relay. 2 coils
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
ancientbugger
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1986
Threads: 191
Registered: March 24th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: sunshine coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
|
| posted on September 1st, 2014 at 09:51 AM |
|
|
Each time I buy a new one as to what the rest of you are talking about 
|
|
|
vduboy
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 702
Threads: 41
Registered: October 6th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: Dying to get more buggy building time..
|
| posted on September 1st, 2014 at 01:29 PM |
|
|
What is the relay running? Just a pump? Some of the old beemer fuel pumps can draw quite a few amps, might be worthwhile seeing if your not coming
close to the rating of the relay, although I doubt it, have you got a wiring diagram to see if you can wire up a couple of conventional relays? At
least they will be cheap and easy to get..
It will all be OK in the end, if it's not OK it's not the end!
|
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on September 1st, 2014 at 02:59 PM |
|
|
Do you have any old ones that can be rebuilt? We have the technology, we can rebuild them.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on September 1st, 2014 at 08:00 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
Depends how the relay is made. I'd think it'd be a single solenoid with dual contacts.
|
No it's a double relay. 2 coils
|
So not an SPDT then but a DPDT? If it has seperate actuating inputs then defo a DPDT relay and hence a coil has failed or the contact has burnt out.
|
Neither, it's a double relay. 2 coils
|
That'll be a DPDT then.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on September 1st, 2014 at 08:12 PM |
|
|
Following the diagram for J40 within the diagram then you possibly could use 2 normal relays in place of the dual relay.
Just looks like there's a resistor on the fuel pump solenoid and possibly a diode but opening a dead dual relay would confirm this.
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on September 1st, 2014 at 08:21 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
That'll be a DPDT then.
|
No, DPDT has 1 coil and 6 contacts. (2NO 2NC 2Common)
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on September 1st, 2014 at 09:17 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
That'll be a DPDT then.
|
No, DPDT has 1 coil and 6 contacts. (2NO 2NC 2Common)
|
DP means dual pole so 2 solenoids and DT is dual throw so 2 contacts either NC or NO. Being an electrical engineer means I've been making
switchboards wrong for a fairly long time now
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on September 2nd, 2014 at 06:22 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
That'll be a DPDT then.
|
No, DPDT has 1 coil and 6 contacts. (2NO 2NC 2Common)
|
DP means dual pole so 2 solenoids and DT is dual throw so 2 contacts either NC or NO. Being an electrical engineer means I've been making
switchboards wrong for a fairly long time now
|
What a load of shit!
DP = switches + & - at the same time.
DT = switches between NO & NC.
http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/DPDT-relay-wiring-diagram
I was a rocket scientist for NASA. They even named a spacecraft after me.
Spacecraft: Lander
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
ancientbugger
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1986
Threads: 191
Registered: March 24th, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: sunshine coast
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
|
| posted on September 2nd, 2014 at 10:42 AM |
|
|
And there's me thinking DP stood for double penetration!
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on September 2nd, 2014 at 11:18 AM |
|
|
I'm with spaceman on this one, and I'm only an electrical fitter mechanic/electrical technician/automotive technician.......
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on September 2nd, 2014 at 01:46 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
and I'm only an electrical fitter mechanic/electrical technician/automotive technician.......
|
I did that once. But that was before I was a pilot on Air Force One.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
Phil74Camper
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Head in the Clouds
Posts: 2703
Threads: 193
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on September 2nd, 2014 at 05:59 PM |
|
|
If you can fix the M-set Millennium trains then you can fly Air Force One!
|
|
|
AA003
A.k.a.: Phill
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1189
Threads: 39
Registered: October 27th, 2011
Member Is Offline
Location: Southern Highlands
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
|
| posted on September 2nd, 2014 at 06:07 PM |
|
|
No it wasn't the real Air Force One. Now that would be BS. It was just the one in the movie. However I did get an Oscar nomination for it.
I read it on samba, so it must be correct.
Sometimes Volkswagen dealers sell spare parts. Amazing isn't it!
|
|
|
psimitar
Son of Jim - Creator of Good
Posts: 2506
Threads: 148
Registered: January 1st, 2009
Member Is Offline
Location: North East Melbourne, VIC
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
|
| posted on September 3rd, 2014 at 12:07 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
| Quote: | Originally
posted by AA003
| Quote: | Originally
posted by psimitar
That'll be a DPDT then.
|
No, DPDT has 1 coil and 6 contacts. (2NO 2NC 2Common)
|
DP means dual pole so 2 solenoids and DT is dual throw so 2 contacts either NC or NO. Being an electrical engineer means I've been making
switchboards wrong for a fairly long time now
|
What a load of shit!
DP = switches + & - at the same time.
DT = switches between NO & NC.
http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/DPDT-relay-wiring-diagram
I was a rocket scientist for NASA. They even named a spacecraft after me.
Spacecraft: Lander
|
Well bugger me. Things musta changed since I was in the trade then as DP always meant a dual magnetic source. ie 2 poles just the same as motors are
designated. Single pole, dual pole etc.
DPDT makes no sense as it's just a SPDT with a pair of DTs but if that's how the industry wishes to label things then who am I to say otherwise.
Really it should be DTDC for dual throw dual contact. That makes more sense. 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
|
|
