| [ Total Views: 992 | Total Replies: 23 | Thread Id: 108552 ] |
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 Euro_67
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| posted on March 9th, 2015 at 11:57 AM |
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Ball joint Beetle wheel bearings
Well after 8 years and quite some time sitting stationary, its no real surprise the '67 has a noisy wheel bearing.
Are all ball joint beam beetle stub axels and wheel bearings the same? I would like to avoid pulling it down before buying the bearings and seal.
Thanks.
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56oval resto
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| posted on March 9th, 2015 at 01:21 PM |
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this may help you - front and rear bearings pics.....
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vwo60
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| posted on March 9th, 2015 at 03:59 PM |
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Make certain you do not buy Chinese bearings, they seam to be supplied every were, look for a brand like Timken, NSK or SKF, they cost a bit more but
these will last a lot longer.
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Smiley
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| posted on March 9th, 2015 at 05:50 PM |
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Balljoint bearings are not the same as link pin bearings. They are different so make sure you order the correct ones for your bug.
Link pin front stub axles are smaller diameter than ball joint.
Smiley 
If you said I was a Volkswagen man, you'd be right.
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psimitar
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| posted on March 9th, 2015 at 07:06 PM |
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Yup, so long as you order for a BJ Beetle you'll be fine. As VW060 said, make sure you buy a quality brand. FAG were one of the main suppliers for VW
so another one to add to NSK etc
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dangerous
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| posted on March 9th, 2015 at 07:31 PM |
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There are two different sizes of ball joint stubs. Early are smaller...and not just the early drum ones.
Even the disc brake ball joint had small and large sizes....yours could be either.
I have even seen a car with different each side, and both disc stub.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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psimitar
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| posted on March 9th, 2015 at 09:32 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dangerous
There are two different sizes of ball joint stubs. Early are smaller...and not just the early drum ones.
Even the disc brake ball joint had small and large sizes....yours could be either.
I have even seen a car with different each side, and both disc stub.
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I did not know that. Lesson for the day
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 9th, 2015 at 10:18 PM |
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Some early ball joint Beetles used a 40 hp tie rod end, maybe that ties in with the bearing sizing that dangerous mentioned
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 matberry
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| posted on March 10th, 2015 at 08:05 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Some early ball joint Beetles used a 40 hp tie rod end, maybe that ties in with the bearing sizing that dangerous mentioned
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Yes, I believe it does Steve. The '68 stub has a smaller diameter stub axle root (where the inner brg sits) and a smaller diameter
tapered hole for the earlier tie rod end.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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Euro_67
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| posted on March 10th, 2015 at 08:59 PM |
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Thanks to all for the detail.
Given the 50 / 50 chance of getting it right or wrong. Looks like I'm pulling it down to determine the right bearings and seal.
If this helps at all, this is for my weird Import '67 from South Africa, that may have originated in the UK. So, the first of the Ball joint cars.
However this may have been fitted with an beam / spindles from who knows where.
Are there any identifying marks or part numbers on the spindles that may help?
Also, the images above look like the bearing and race are one. I was expecting conical bearings and a race you drift into the rotor hub. Can anyone
confirm?
Thanks.
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1303Steve
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| posted on March 10th, 2015 at 09:28 PM |
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I think the stubs with the small tie rods used smaller hex nut, maybe 17mm and the later ones were 19mm
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Euro_67
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| posted on March 10th, 2015 at 09:39 PM |
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Thanks Steve
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matberry
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| posted on March 10th, 2015 at 11:18 PM |
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yes Steve, generally but not definatively.
The only way to be sure is removal of bearings and check stub IMO (even the TRE hole can be reamed larger, but the stub is pretty hard to make
bigger)
The bearings are tapered roller that have the outer race separate to the caged rollers and inner race.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
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Euro_67
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| posted on March 11th, 2015 at 08:34 AM |
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Thanks Matt.
I will strip it down and post pics of what I find.
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Euro_67
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| posted on March 15th, 2015 at 07:56 PM |
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OK, so I found some time to pull down the front left rotor and here is what I found.
The spindle has and OD of approx 26.98 at the root and 17.50mm on the outer end.
Seal PN 40589
Koyo Bearing
Inner bearing outer race PN L44610
Inner bearing with inner race PN L44649R
Nachi Bearing
Outer bearing outer race PN LM11710
Outer bearing with inner race PN LM11749
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vwo60
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| posted on March 15th, 2015 at 09:19 PM |
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Just take the old bearings and seals to a bearing supply shop and get some good quality replacements. just standard tapered roller bearings.
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psimitar
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| posted on March 15th, 2015 at 10:29 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Just take the old bearings and seals to a bearing supply shop and get some good quality replacements. just standard tapered roller bearings.
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Yup, and there's a good chance they'll be cheaper from a bearing supplier than the local VW shop The last NSK ones I got were 
madness is in the eye of the beholder |
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vwo60
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| posted on March 16th, 2015 at 07:17 AM |
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And better quality than the last set I saw purchased from a vw supply shop.
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matberry
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| posted on March 16th, 2015 at 10:23 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
And better quality than the last set I saw purchased from a vw supply shop.
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That has to depend on the VW supply shop
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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psimitar
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| posted on March 16th, 2015 at 09:14 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
And better quality than the last set I saw purchased from a vw supply shop.
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That has to depend on the VW supply shop
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True dat
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Euro_67
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| posted on March 19th, 2015 at 10:37 PM |
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Ok, so I replaced both left and right bearing sets and seals...... and the noise persists.
Any suggestions on what it might be?
Im certain its coming from the front left, and is more noticeable at +80Kkmh
Speedo cable perhaps? Is it necessary to grease / lube the speedo cable?
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matberry
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| posted on March 20th, 2015 at 08:46 AM |
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Disconnect the speedo cable at the wheel and go for a drive. It's pretty hard to diagnose a noise over the internet. A wheel brg usually changes
pitch with load, ie if you turn a corner the loaded side (outside) wheel increases load and should make more noise. I've had rears sound like fronts.
You might be tightening the fronts too much, you should have movement in the thrust washer to indicate correct preload. I personally do my wheel brg
diagnosing on the hoist by spinning the wheels by hand with a quiet workshop, a bad brg can be felt and heard this way.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Euro_67
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| posted on March 20th, 2015 at 09:57 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
It's pretty hard to diagnose a noise over the internet.
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What, no diagnosis by Osmosis? I thought I was channeling the VW Gods who know and see all
The noise is a low pitch grumble which becomes more obvious at speed. It does not seem to change under cornering load.
I will try with the cable disconnected.
I also suspect It may be coming from elsewhere, and could even be the rear wheel bearings.
Thanks for the tips Matt.
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psimitar
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| posted on March 21st, 2015 at 08:24 PM |
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Also, and this depends on the vehicle, I've found that if it's a front bearing then you can feel a slight vibration thru the steering wheel whereas
the rear bearings give a vibration in you butt cheeks. NO joke intended.
Matt is quite right tho that the best method is a quite workshop and the wheels up in the air so you can spin the wheel and listen for any noises.
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