| [ Total Views: 3412 | Total Replies: 16 | Thread Id: 113276 ] |
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 1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on June 22nd, 2018 at 06:43 PM |
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dry sumping WBX/oxy boxer
Hi
Long story short building a 2332 oxy boxer.
I've been unable to find very much information on dry sumping an WBX/oxy boxer.
Hopefully some experts will chime in.
Because the WBX/oxy boxer doesn't have sump plate like Type 1 or Type 4 motors I thought about using a Moroso pick up in the case and moving it
closer to rear of the engine (crank pulley end) and having the oil scavenge exit the case where the WBX and Type 3 &4 style oil neck attaches and
of course getting rid of the stock oil pickup.
The next issue is that the dry sump oil pumps hang out the back a long way which gets in the way of the exhaust, so Im thing about going belt drive. A
friend of mine built a cool 3 stage pump and is not using it anymore, he can also convert it to run a drive belt.
Steve
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HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
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| posted on June 23rd, 2018 at 08:55 AM |
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Steve, just a word of warning about a possible 'side-affect'...loss of oil cooling.
You may remember the Autocraft dry sump set-up on my sports sedan. It did a great job of moving the oil from the engine, and enabled more oil capacity
and better cooling. Trouble was the oil no longer 'sloshed about' in the crankcase, therefore causing it to run very hot, despite the cooler oil.
Something to consider?
Cheers, Greg
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on June 23rd, 2018 at 03:03 PM |
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Thanks Greg, if the pick up is a little high in sump that might leave enough oil to slosh about. the case is factory aluminium so it should take a bit
of heat OK.
Did your sports sedan setup use one of the Autocraft sump plates?
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HappyDaze
A.k.a.: Greg Mackie
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| posted on June 23rd, 2018 at 04:45 PM |
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The aluminium case holds it's strength better at high temps, for sure.
Because of the ride height, anything hanging too low was a concern. Used internal scavenge.
I'd rather wear a Beetle out by racing it than by polishing it!
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Sick68VW
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| posted on July 15th, 2018 at 08:52 AM |
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Hey steve on my car instead of a dry sump i went for a Oil Accumulator which so far has very good results. Theres a heap of write ups on them..
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on July 15th, 2018 at 07:59 PM |
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Hi Steve
My son and I are both using Canton Accusumps on our cars, mine on my Subaru motor and David on his RB30 powered Nissan Cefiro drift car.
They work great and give the added benefit of pre oiling before starting, we may even fit a small Accusump to this motor for pre oiling.
Fitting a dry sump has other benefits and I always like to see what big brother Porsche did, they fitted a dry sump to 6 cylinder 911s.
Steve
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 17th, 2018 at 08:34 AM |
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The Shadek dry sump pump sold by CB is quite nice and my customers have liked them.
They only have 21 pressure gears and 26 scavenge but that should be enough
unless you have large oil clearances.
I use the Autocraft on my own, and drilled for internal scavenge,
but the tolerances are not as tight as I would like on the gear teeth,
and so the 1.25" pressure gears are needed, even though normally a 26 pressure gear is more than enough, for any engine.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on July 17th, 2018 at 09:44 AM |
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Thanks Dave, so the CB pump is worth using, it makes life a lot easier with exhaust etc.
While researching WBX oiling systems I came across a strange thing that VW did with these motors.
If you look at the photo of WBX case that posted above, below the cam gear bearing nearest the oil pump there is a rectangular passage.
The oil pressure relief drains into that passage and the oil pick passes has a hole in it where it passes through the rectangular passage. WBXs are
plagued with low oil pressure issues, this could be a cause
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 18th, 2018 at 01:09 PM |
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Yes, that WBX bypass port is the first I saw, and I think it exists on some(all?) type 4s too.
I felt it was a problem too, and plugged it on my Oxy Boxer, back I the late 1990s,
and changed the 6 studs to some bigger ones, because I was worried the case was moving and drawing in air.
You may need to provide another method of pressure control, externally....if you block it.
Mine never lacked pressure (that I saw), but every bearing was measured, and crankshaft ground to suit.
Other than actual faults (with pumps and relief valves), pressure is governed by oil clearance, viscosity and pump size.
You might be correct in saying this port is a problem,
especially on a worn engine where the case halves' faces are no longer flat.....or loose.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 18th, 2018 at 01:13 PM |
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With the CB pump, (and any pump for that matter)
its worth measuring the body and make sure its tight in the case.
If not, a simple O-ring groove can be cut into the pump body (like Berg does) to prevent air leakage.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on July 19th, 2018 at 09:47 AM |
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Hi Dave
I would still use the factory oil pressure relief but I would allow it to dump into the main case area by drilling a few holes in the rectangular
passage. The oil pickup is also in bad location, I would move it towards the cam gear and lower it a lot.
I could see the port being a problem if insufficient sealant was used around rectangular passage when assembling the case.
Steve
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on August 30th, 2019 at 02:56 PM |
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Hi
We're going with a Subarugears transmission with my sons car. The conversion flywheel came the other day to link a WBX crank to a Subaru trans.
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on September 19th, 2019 at 06:17 PM |
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Hi
Just had most of the motor and crown wheel and pinion cryogenically treated at MT&CE in Silverdale.
Putting it together soon
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hulbyw
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| posted on September 19th, 2019 at 10:27 PM |
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Glad to hear of someone else that uses cryogenics. Some folks don't place much store in it but I reckon it is worth trying given that it is not all
that expensive. I had the crown wheel and pinion done in my previous Prado when fitting the locker, and the crankcase, cam and followers in my Beetle
engine (which I have sold on before assembling and using). You have reminded me that I need to get the case, crank, cam and followers done on my new
engine before assembly
Cheers
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on September 20th, 2019 at 11:50 AM |
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Thanks, its the first time for me. We're also getting some parts HSPF treated as well
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on September 4th, 2020 at 01:54 PM |
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hi
We converted my sons bug to Nissan pattern 114.3 so we did some test fitting the other day, going 17 on the front and 18 on the rear
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 Bizarre
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| posted on September 6th, 2020 at 08:51 AM |
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Looks great Steve
Futue te ipsum!!!
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