| [ Total Views: 1474 | Total Replies: 28 | Thread Id: 19630 ] |
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 Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 08:31 PM |
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STROKING MOTORS?
I know a lot of people with 1776cc and 1835cc motors that love stroker motors. In both cases they have increased the capacity of the engine by
increasing the bore size.
Why don't they just put a stroker crank into a 1600cc to give the same if not larger engine capacity :jesus
85.5mm bore x 76/78/82 etc etc
Just a thought 
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low55
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 08:42 PM |
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well i reakon it could be the money . :thumb
i thirt of some thing funny and stupid to write here then i forgot it
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Kai.A.
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 09:03 PM |
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yeh, it's not really as simple as just slapping a bigger crank in....
whereas putting new b+p's on for 1641, 1776, 1835, 1914..... is a realtively straightforward thing to do..... and generally cheaper.
kai
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 09:22 PM |
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Why not :o, .......you need to machine the case for bigger barrels and you have to replace the P&C kit, the stroker can use the original P&C
and there is no machining :jesus
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Kai.A.
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| posted on February 27th, 2004 at 09:32 PM |
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i don't know all the in's and out's of it all.
i just think that for a relatively simple engine build it is easier (probably cheaper....unless you get a few bargains) to just increase the b+p
size.
having said that i have a mate with a 1745 motor, i can't remember the specs exactly but i think it's standard b+p's with a bigger
crank, having been in that bug, it goes really well!!!!
kai
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lugnuts
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| posted on February 28th, 2004 at 01:46 AM |
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This sounds like a wind-up,is this a wind-up Craig  |
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56astro
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| posted on March 2nd, 2004 at 04:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Kai.A.
having said that i have a mate with a 1745 motor, i can't remember the specs exactly but i think it's standard b+p's with a bigger
crank, having been in that bug, it goes really well!!!!
kai
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85.5 x 76 stroke
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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Jeza
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| posted on March 2nd, 2004 at 07:05 PM |
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Mmmmm
Whats involved with building something like that vs using a standard crank?
Obviously a bit of clearancing, cylinder spacers (?) and some careful calculations re pushrods
Are different con rods required? Or can you use the standard length ones?
Perhaps this is why people choose to build engines without changing the crank- no geomety variations.
Having said that I've had lots of thoughts about engine combinations I'd luv to try if I ever scraped a bit more money together- and this
was one of them.
I guess it would be a torquey motor but not so good at reving out?
Cheers
Jeremy
......random gibberish for today.......
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Kai.A.
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| posted on March 2nd, 2004 at 07:28 PM |
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are you on about the 1745 combo?
if so;
the engine my mate has was originally built and raced, with nitrous and some serious heads+carbs it ran a 14.1 i think....
my mate now runs it de-tuned, lesser heads and carbs and no nitrous.
it has great torque! he doesn't rev it over 5000rpm (doesn't need to )
kai
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dubcab
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| posted on March 2nd, 2004 at 08:09 PM |
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STROKE IT BABY
I had a hot motor built about 7 years ago by a bloke that had a business called Crankshaft Dynamics in Melbourne. I gave him a box of parts which
included a 92mm big-bore kit, but at the time He tried to convince me to use one of his stroker cranks that he builds himself. I ended up using my
92mm kit, but he claimed that his crank would give me more torque and that his stroker engines ran cooler and dont mind a good rev. I dont know if he
is still operating but could be worth chasing up. I think you only need to clear the case if you run anything bigger than 78mm stroke, not sure.
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LOWBUG
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 07:02 AM |
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Stroke It
By stroking your engine you not only get the benifit of a larger engine, but an engine that that will have more torque and power at lower RPM's
thus longer life life by not reving its guts out. All these engines you here about reving out to 7 or 8 grand is not necesary as you will find there
not making power only killing their engine.
Yes theres a little more fussing around with stoking but the difference is like night and day.
Cheers
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 Bizarre
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 08:42 AM |
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Craig
What is Stans opinion on strokers??
Does he make stroked cranks??
TTFN
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 08:55 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by LOWBUG
By stroking your engine you not only get the benifit of a larger engine, but an engine that that will have more torque and power at lower RPM's
thus longer life life by not reving its guts out. All these engines you here about reving out to 7 or 8 grand is not necesary as you will find there
not making power only killing their engine.
Yes theres a little more fussing around with stoking but the difference is like night and day.
Cheers
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When you have a wide rev range, the engine is extremely versatile. The revs don't hurt if it is built right, this has been well proven, so has
the torque and power from a standard stoke engine etc etc...................
I just want to know why an engine builder who would normally build stroker motors , doesn't stroke a 1600 instead of fitting bigger pistons to
acheive the 1776 size motor ???
This is not intended as a debate on power or torque.
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 09:00 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by blue74l
Craig
What is Stans opinion on strokers??
Does he make stroked cranks??
TTFN
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Probably best to ask Stan
He builds stroker motors.
Barry you have a 1776, did you think about putting a stroker crank in before enlarging the bore size ?
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bugboymatt
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 09:23 AM |
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Ok how much work is involved in stroking my 1916 to an 82 crank ?
Da Time For The Aircooled Revolution Is Upon US.
Brothers & Sisters Lets Hit The Streets, Roll As One. And Feel The Power Of The Aircooled Storm.
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Bizarre
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 09:34 AM |
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yes and no
It all started cuz i had never built a motor and i was getting old and wanted to do one.
I had an old 1600 that i was going to turn into a hottie - ie mild cam, CR etc etc.
It was about this time i met Richard and he offered to help me.
At the same time i got a deal of $400 for heads, 90.5's and a (Berg?) counter weighted crank
So - 1776 it was.
I have thought of a stroker when i was offered a 78 for $500 but decided against it cause mainly of carbs. I dont think the IDF 36's will feed it
all that good. I would mean more $$$ there
MY opinion against strokers is
* cost of crank. A good crank is, what $1k??
* Then you need the carbs etc to feed it. A mouse (?) motor happily runs heater boxes etc etc
* difficuulty/cost in building. B pistons, new rods, decent heads to go with it.
Bit of a waste spending the extra $$$ and putting 040's on it (not that i dont like 040's)
The main thing i "fear" is getting the "combo" right.
You start playing with stroke and B's and spacers and you are in a world of piston speed, rod ratio's, rod length etc etc
This is where motor builders and people who buy pieces to build a motor are separated.
How many motors has Richard, Stan even the likes of Dave Becker built.
Answer - a shit load more than me
Man - i reckon there is a crap load to learn.
I aint going to do it in my first motor.
My car is a daily driver. I drive a fair bit. It is my company car. Not something i want to experiment on.
Maybe one day - but i am happy with the power of the 1776. I am happy watching what Richard builds for others.
Anyone who reckons it is a matter of buying some pieces and throwing it together like a stocker is kidding themselves in my opinion.
To be honest - i dont know of THAT many hotties, let alone strokers.
And of those o do know of, a handfull are daily drivers - of those that are RELIABLE daily drivers......
Maybe when the morthagae has gone down and my kids are more interested, i might be able to encourage them.
Stroker cheaper than a big bore - i dont think so.
Yeah - i could ring stan but it would only interupt him for some thing that we are rambling about. I will let him earn a dollar instead.
I will say that if it was cheaper / easier then i am sure he would sell that in the volumes he does his 1916. But he doesnt so...........
Then a again, some one who is no longer with us promoted the stroker. Guess we wont be hearing his side of the story.
TTFN
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 09:39 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bugboymatt
Ok how much work is involved in stroking my 1916 to an 82 crank ?
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B pistons
rods
spacers
machining
Then you need to consider
can you carbs feed it??
You will at least need a re-venturi and jet
Exhaust - probabally need a new exhaust system
Heads - yes you can use stock heads but why. You spend all this other money and you are choking the motor??
Cam - same reason as heads.
Tin work. No drama but it wont be the same size as before. There will be work involved
Futue te ipsum!!!
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bugboymatt
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 10:06 AM |
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So it would be more cost effective to just get a jap front cut !!! If ya not bothered about originality !
Da Time For The Aircooled Revolution Is Upon US.
Brothers & Sisters Lets Hit The Streets, Roll As One. And Feel The Power Of The Aircooled Storm.
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56astro
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 10:12 AM |
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ENGINE SIZE
BORE SIZE
STROKE 83 85.5 87 88 90 90.5 92 94 96.5 101.6
64 1385 1470 1522 1557 1629 1647 1702 1777 1872 2075
69 1493 1585 1641 1679 1756 1775 1835 1915 2019 2238
74 1602 1699 1760 1800 1883 1904 1968 2054 2165 2400
76 1645 1745 1807 1849 1934 1956 2021 2110 2223 2465
78 1688 1791 1855 1898 1985 2007 2074 2165 2282 2529
78.8 1705 1810 1874 1917 2005 2028 2095 2187 2305 2555
82 1775 1883 1950 1995 2087 2110 2180 2276 2399 2659
84 1818 1929 1997 2044 2138 2161 2234 2332 2457 2724
86 1861 1975 2045 2092 2188 2213 2287 2387 2516 2789
88 1905 2021 2093 2141 2239 2264 2340 2443 2574 2854
90 1948 2067 2140 2190 2290 2316 2393 2498 2633 2919
It's cut and paste from an EXCEL spreadsheet. Sorry 'bout not having borders showing.
[Edited on 3-3-2004 by 56astro]
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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Jeza
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 11:17 AM |
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My understanding is that if you stay with a mild stroke (ie 78mm or less) you won't need to use the 'B' pistons.
However like Barry mentions you still need to look at rod ratio's, spacers etc
Not the easiest way to go
......random gibberish for today.......
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twoguns
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 11:35 AM |
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i do have to agree with blue74l. i went thru a hole range of thoughts and emotions in trying to decide what to put in my splitty. and i had to
consider air flow, remembering this thing started as a 1200.
but everyone i talked to said yeah easy this and complicated that. they talked as though nothing is a problem and i am sure its not. but i think once
you start mixing things it just carries on down the line from there. 400 for this 500 for that and so on.
in the end and after all the talk, i went 1776 with CBB, and it is brilliant. i use it everyday. not stressed, very reliable and enought a splitty
along with out too much fuss. :thumb
Simply Cruzin'...
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 12:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bugboymatt
So it would be more cost effective to just get a jap front cut !!! If ya not bothered about originality !
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Well I was gunna say that, but then people go off at me so I didn't  ...
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Bizarre
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 12:44 PM |
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Not at all Wes
But no one has really put the $$$ on the table for a drive in drive out job.
Dont know what it REALLY costs for us that have limited time.
A 1776 buy rules is under 15% increase and doesnt change anything.
I somehow dont think the rego / insurance man will accept the radiator sitting at the front as " i thought it was part of it" as an
answer
Yeah yeah - a 2.4L beast will raise eybrows as well.
But how much is a front end clip change over???
Futue te ipsum!!!
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HotRodMatt
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 01:29 PM |
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me thinks a lot of people strokes other things too much to bother stroking an engine....
Personally, if I had have got my hands on a stroker crank as easily as I did a standard stroke and B&P I might have considered it...
I think that's the reason most people go for bore over stroke....
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Rota_Motor
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 07:55 PM |
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what am I missing?
am I missing a big part?
I'm taking a wild guess that VW motors are similar to other pistons, in the fact that if you get a stroker crank, you need to use a shorter
piston/rod combo from main journal to piston face, which will be either shorter conrods, or preferably, shorter pistons.
and then barrels etc. will all be the same, and carb/heads will need to be the same as the same capacity achieved with an overbore. perhaps carb/heads
could be smaller, as the stroker in theory wont rev quite as hard.
but I'm not really knowledgable about VW's in general, so maybe theres some other strange quirk they have. |
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lugnuts
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 09:13 PM |
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Sounds right to me,but what would i know never bin stroked |
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 3rd, 2004 at 09:45 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by LOWBUG
All these engines you here about reving out to 7 or 8 grand is not necesary as you will find there not making power only killing their engine.
Cheers
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Well this 1916cc is making power to 7000rpm, so I don't know what your talking about :jesus
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syncro
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| posted on March 4th, 2004 at 07:36 AM |
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I've always been interested in stroking a motor, at the moment in looking into rebuilding the WBX for the Syncro, there are a few companies in
the U.S. that are doing them- 94x76mm is standard =2110cc 78, 80 and 82 are the options with 95 mm barrels 2155cc, 2212cc, 2268cc, and my favorite
2399cc.It is a little more complex in the WBX as the heads are a fixed possition so instead of spacers under the barrels wrist pin hieght and rod
length needs to be adjusted.
Oetinger made a stroker kit for the WBX which used a special forged crank and modded rods and pistons, if any one has one of these kits lying around
let me know ; - )
With the syncro the attraction is the extra torque at low rpm, for daily driving in any car low down torque is much better than peak horsepower.
Using golf rods in a type 1 motor it is possible to offset grind the crank to achieve, from memory, around 74mm stroke? Anyone done this one? for a
street car it would be a good option.
Steve
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 4th, 2004 at 08:54 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Rota_Motor
I'm taking a wild guess that VW motors are similar to other pistons, in the fact that if you get a stroker crank, you need to use a shorter
piston/rod combo from main journal to piston face, which will be either shorter conrods, or preferably, shorter pistons.
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Not necessarily with a VW engine. Small changes in stroke can be accounted for by running shims under the barrels. This makes the engine wider, but
keeps the piston to head clearance the same.
With real big strokes it is impractical to use real big shims, and the stock piston will travel too far out of the cylinder anyway. Then you should
look into purpose built stroker pistons and barrels and/or different conrods.
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AdrianH
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| posted on March 5th, 2004 at 07:36 PM |
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It is possible to stroke 85.5mm cylinders. You end up with a couple of issues, if you use a stock length rod the rod angle increases and there is the
possibility of rod and barrell contact - grind a bit out of the barrell base. The second point of contact is piston skirts, skirts are much shorter on
a B piston (about 30 grams lighter from memory - could be wrong), so you need to grind off the piston base so that it doesnt slam into the crank.
These problems can be overcome with longer rods but you need to be careful, shimming the cylinder to far from the case, you lose a lot of support at
BDC, and the chances of cocking a piston in the bore are high, resulting in extremely exciting noises eminating from the block... Its a balancing
act.
Apart from that, no worries. Ive clearanced cases with a dremmel, it takes a while but aint hard, strokers are more work but are worth the effort
IMO.
[Edited on 5-3-2004 by AdrianH]
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