| [ Total Views: 1425 | Total Replies: 33 | Thread Id: 23487 ] |
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 BJ
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| posted on May 26th, 2004 at 10:15 AM |
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twin sparks per cyclinder
Have recieved a heap of vw motor bits of a mate and one has had the head machined to fit a second spark plug. Just a quick question would a 009
create enough spark to run off of one lead or is a different way. Would it create much more power or not have enough drive for two.
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Kai.A.
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| posted on May 26th, 2004 at 05:30 PM |
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sounds interesting.... what head is/was it? type 1 or 4?
can't actually offer any help, but i am intrigued about these heads.
got any photo's of them?
kai
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AdrianH
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| posted on May 26th, 2004 at 06:13 PM |
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Revmaster in the US modify heads like that for the aircraft market - It uses two coils per cylinder and a CDI that is crank fired all mounted where
the flywheel once would have been...
Not practical for a street vehicle in that format, I would guess that you would want a disi with 8 outlets and a rotor that hits 2 points
simultaneously, and a high voltage ignition system ???
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Kai.A.
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| posted on May 26th, 2004 at 06:33 PM |
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i've seen a few crank-triggered ignition systems on the shoptalk forums. they set up the bottom fanbelt pulley as the trigger.
all a little bit techy for me, but sounds like the way forward for serious high performance motors!
kai
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tassupervee
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| posted on May 26th, 2004 at 07:18 PM |
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Nah dude, you cannot fire both plugs with one coil.
You will need to set up a dual fired system with 4 twin output coils.
It is acceptable to trigger both coils from the one trigger arrangement.
A simple method of twin triggering is to set up a dizzy points plate with 2 sets of points mounted at 90 deg to each other and grind off 2 opposing
lobes of the cam so each set of points opens alternately.
One set of points is fixed on the points plate and the other needs to be mad adjustable on the points plate.
This makes it easy to set the fixed points/timing first and then set the second set.
However, the points strategy is fraught with hassles such as timing scatter if the points are not set or wear evenly.
You could do the same with an optical system or even a hall effect dual system using the dizzy but the best and probably easiest method is to dual
crank fire it.
I have used twin plug heads for many years on my Ducati 900 and the engine performs very well as far as combustion is concerned but the ingition
advance curve needs to be significantly retarded over stock as the revs rise to get the best out of it.
This is due to the 2 flame fronts produced by the 2 plugs shortening the flame front propogation time at the time of ignition and effectively
advancing the ignition timing.
Definitely worth the effort.
l8tr
E
[Edited on 26/5/04 by tassupervee]
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 26th, 2004 at 10:16 PM |
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Well for all the people that are interested in twin Spark plug setups STAY TUNED !!!! I will tell more over the next couple of weeks !!!
Very practical for street or race.
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Bugged Again
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| posted on May 26th, 2004 at 10:43 PM |
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Don't know anything about them but Alfas have been using them successfully for years
Go look at one of their motors
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lugnuts
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 02:42 AM |
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SSSSHHHHH Craig your not supposed to tell,or is this whole thread a DOROTHY DIXER,dammed if im not paranoid.:thumb |
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Desert Moose
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 12:46 PM |
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ratfl
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 Bizarre
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 01:23 PM |
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here is a picture of my best-est mate
Damn looks like a twin dizzy set up
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Futue te ipsum!!!
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56astro
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 03:01 PM |
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Ooww, is that Jake?
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 03:11 PM |
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Yep
Jake Pobjoy! :P :P
He's my best-est mate!
(joke!)
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 03:12 PM |
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He look REAL serious dont he!
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Southern Van
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 03:17 PM |
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BMW motorcycles,on the 2 cylinder boxer motor has two spark plugs per cylinder.At high revs they both fire at the same time and at lower revs they
fire apart.It was designed to stop throttle surging at low speeds with the fuel injection.All computer controlled.
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Southern Van
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 03:18 PM |
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BMW motorcycles,on the 2 cylinder boxer motor has two spark plugs per cylinder.At high revs they both fire at the same time and at lower revs they
fire apart.It was designed to stop throttle surging at low speeds with the fuel injection.All computer controlled.
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Southern Van
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| posted on May 27th, 2004 at 03:18 PM |
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BMW motorcycles,on the 2 cylinder boxer motor has two spark plugs per cylinder.At high revs they both fire at the same time and at lower revs they
fire apart.It was designed to stop throttle surging at low speeds with the fuel injection.All computer controlled.
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KruizinKombi
A.k.a.: Col
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| posted on May 28th, 2004 at 10:13 AM |
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That's one way to increase your post count.....
Kruizin Kol
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PurpleT3
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| posted on May 28th, 2004 at 11:13 AM |
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There is a back issue of VW Trends magazine which had an article about cutting twin spark plug ports into a Type 4 head. I'll try and find out which
issue. It may include some info on how to fire two plugs per cylinder.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
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Bizarre
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| posted on May 28th, 2004 at 12:50 PM |
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I am sure the article you are talking about is relating to the motor in the picture with Jake
Futue te ipsum!!!
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his@hervw
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| posted on May 28th, 2004 at 10:23 PM |
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Twin spark plugs
All I will say is New Zealand,
Sub 4 Heads $4000 Giro
Never Rushed
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 28th, 2004 at 10:57 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Well for all the people that are interested in twin Spark plug setups STAY TUNED !!!! I will tell more over the next couple of weeks !!!
Very practical for street or race.
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Yeah, baby...
(Oh, and Nissan used them for the Pintara. But that's another story)
Pay your debts, CxxT
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on May 30th, 2004 at 02:22 AM |
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BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA
:bounce
need sleep.
let sleeping dubs lie
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56astro
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| posted on May 30th, 2004 at 08:10 AM |
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Ah huh
so that's the secret mission!!
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on May 30th, 2004 at 06:07 PM |
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Yep. 
So far (seat of pants) the twin ignition looks like a real winner, Just have to collate all the info for a truly scientific evaluation. Should go get
some dyno time too.
Stan's really onto something here. Now everyone's gonna want one.
Party on.....
let sleeping dubs lie
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seagull
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| posted on May 30th, 2004 at 10:27 PM |
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MR2 tubo motors have twin plugs
gets costly on service
[Edited on 30-5-2004 by seagull]
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 31st, 2004 at 09:21 AM |
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Tell us more Peter ?
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fullnoise
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| posted on June 1st, 2004 at 12:03 PM |
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Peter. What did your car make on the dyno before the twin plug set up?
CYA CT
esratrams
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lugnuts
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| posted on June 1st, 2004 at 03:11 PM |
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It would hafta go 130 horsies at least ta make it worth it |
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Peter Leonard
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| posted on June 1st, 2004 at 06:26 PM |
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Chris, no dyno, not even fully tuned up yet but I'm hanging out for
a chance to find the time to sort out jetting etc. I have a custom muffler that's dubious at best, so would like to try out a few combos on the
day.
basics: idle went straight up from 800 to 1200 rpm, and with no timing adjustment present at this rpm this is a good sign of improved engine
efficiency.
torque was definately up in the lower rev range, and now you can nail it at even lower revs without fear of drowning in petrol from a hasty foot.
It drives with two people in the car like it used to with just one. Temperatures are DOWN between 5 - 10 degrees. That's freaky. Plus I can now run
less total advance at full throttle (it revs to 7400 rpm, which is scarily fast in second gear)
once I sort out the jetting (dyno and $$$) I'll be getting hold of some slightly stickier rears to stop my roundabout misadventures. Just hope my
CV's hold. Losing traction as you punch into third can't be safe... 
now we know why there are twin plugged big bore HiPo two valve motors in production to this very day...
:bounce
let sleeping dubs lie
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fullnoise
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 3rd, 2004 at 09:09 AM |
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It's amazing how much better you can get your car to feel when you fiddle with the electrics.
When I changed to a Dick Smith CDI ignition (Thank's to Greg Ward for putting it together) the car became so much smoother. It solved hesitation
issues that I thought were caused by the carbs.
I also played with the dizzy advance stops. Not the car goes from 10 degrees at idle to 28. It's much snappier and doesn't detonate as much.
You should start playing with the jets yourself. I'd stick with a 135 main and experiment with airjets from 135 to 180. Make sure the carbs are
balanced and adjust the linkage so that both carbs open at the same time and actually make it to full throttle. You could make huge gains in half a
day. Perhaps Craig will loan you some jets so you don't have to buy them until you know exactly what you need.
I'm in the mood to give advice. Hope that helps. CYA CT
esratrams
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