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 dak dak ute
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| posted on June 18th, 2004 at 10:28 PM |
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turbo diesel in to ute
has anyone put a turbo diesel in to a baja bug before???? i was thinking maybe old golf diesel with a turbo on it or something..... or mayb izuzu ie.
one from a gemini..
i want the diesel......... a) for the spooling of the turbo on idle....... like a big truck.......
amd b) the ability to ford my way through deeper water then what i currently can........... i will be running a stack and snorkel up the back of my
beetle ute.......
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dak dak ute
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| posted on June 19th, 2004 at 10:35 AM |
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bump
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phatrat
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| posted on June 19th, 2004 at 08:21 PM |
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r u sure you want to go this way?
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dak dak ute
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| posted on June 19th, 2004 at 08:36 PM |
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its different....... and i havn't heard of it before......... and they way fuel prices are goin........ i can make biodiesel
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type2nut
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| posted on June 19th, 2004 at 10:51 PM |
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For some applications a TD buggy would be a great vehicle.
There is a lot to be said for such engines. Especially if you use bio diesel, or perhaps run it on a diesel LPG mix.
I'm surprised there aren't a few TD'd buggies around.
Andy.
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vwrallycar
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| posted on June 20th, 2004 at 08:01 PM |
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i remember a mark 1 golf at nambucca back in 97 i think which was turboed. the owner had made all the manifolds himself. it was really impressive.
i reckon a golf diesel in a beetle would be great, and i have seen it done
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dak dak ute
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| posted on June 20th, 2004 at 08:03 PM |
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cool..... it will be in a ute, so the noise wont be as bad, and i plan to do some preety serious mud/water work in it to prove my friends wrong about
their thoughts on beetles....... bloody 4x4ers
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on June 21st, 2004 at 08:27 AM |
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I'm wondering how deep you can go before the thing floats away anyway... but I guess the weight of a diesel may help to weigh it down a bit. 
Kruizin Kol
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dak dak ute
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| posted on June 21st, 2004 at 05:36 PM |
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itsa only half the bug... i doubt it will float much........ maybe the front....
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pete wood
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 posted on June 22nd, 2004 at 02:53 PM |
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Sounds tops
I have seen an article in an early 80's VW trends mag with a turboed golf diesel motor in a baja bug. The mag and heaps of diesel fans I know say
that motor is perfect for a turbo. Then you could put a great big shiny intercooler on it "FULLY SEECK!!"
LOL 
The biggest issue would be the sump I reckon.
Be good for climbing though. What gearbox are you going to use?
If you had a 1600 kombi box your first might get near a low 4wd ratio and you'd be able to climb anything. However you'd need to put a tall fourth
in it for highway use.
As for fuel economy, a friend of mine has a 70's diesel golf and swears by the fuel economy. He says the only problem is that the gearing in the
fourth is abit low for doing 110kph continually.
[Edited on 22-6-2004 by pete wood]
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 23rd, 2004 at 12:46 PM |
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I wouldn't do it. my personal opinion.
What is the weight of a golf diesel anyway? diesel's are generally heavy motors.
As for water ability, yes your car will float away anyway. A petrol motor with good spark leads will run through deep water crossings anyway. I don't
know if the turbo will like being submerged when it's hot.
I personally don't like the low revving powerless nature of the diesel torque curve. I've got so much down low torque that I don't know why I would
want anymore, and especially if it was a trade-off of top end power.
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Brad
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| posted on June 23rd, 2004 at 04:15 PM |
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Traction with 1 wheel at slow speeds will not get you real far anyway. In a VW you need a little speed to get where you want to go offroad.
A Diesel is a very heavy motor and even the one from the Mk1 and Mk2 Golfs are bloody heavy compared to the petrol equivs.
You should have a look at the engine torque curve before you go with it. I think you will find an EJ22 has better low end torque than the Mk1 or 2
Diesel Golf Engine.
Yes a turbo will sound cool but unless it is a littel pisser bottom end ain't gunna get any help and it will not spool up till around 2000 RPM UP.
I would be very suprissed if an EJ22 didn't out perform the Golf Diesel from 600 RPM to 7000 RPM . A diesel will go better in water but how high your
air intake and how well you prep your vehicle will have more effect than the engine.
With my pod filters on teh back of my Manx, my VW engien would run going through water that was well over the 31" 's on the rear. Never missed a
beat.
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nbturbo
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| posted on June 24th, 2004 at 02:45 PM |
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Dak Dak-is that yellow ute your ride-if so,have you ever posted pics???Could you show some or email some to me please.
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dak dak ute
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| posted on June 24th, 2004 at 05:34 PM |
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unfortunatly no.......... i hope to build one like it once a find a suitable donor car.... one that is hit up the arse or something.... i am just
going to turn my curretn body into baja till it dies
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pete wood
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 posted on June 24th, 2004 at 06:02 PM |
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EJ series motors
Brad has a point. The EJ series motors have dumb amounts of torque and even siller amounts of power available. Probably abit cheaper in the long run
too.
Let me give you another idea. If you really want to go nuts go 4wd. Pick up a Lada Niva transfere case, a nice 5 speed and two reasonable lockable
diffs. Then convert your front axle to some form of front wheel drive stubs and run a drive shaft down the tunnel of the car.
If your not overwhelmed by all this, then you can put in a 2.1l turbo diesel and do some very serious offroading.
Or you could just buy a turbo diesel Jackaroo I suppose. :thumb
Sorry, got abit carried away there.:o
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dubcab
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| posted on June 24th, 2004 at 10:30 PM |
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Go the turbo diesel
I like the idea of a turbo diesel,but i wouldn't touch any of the old school "mechanical pump" tractor motors. In my opinion there is no such thing
as a great japanese diesel engine.All the good ones come from europe ,VW have their TDI ,Mercedes have their CDI and Peugeot /Citroen call theirs HDI.
All of these engines fitted to ordinary cars can reach 200kph without a stress and my friends peugeot use about 4.5 litres per 100km. Now I've heard
and experienced people driving off road in all soughts of vehicles and a common problem with steep terrain and especially soft sand is that smallish
petrol motors and big tyres usually means revving like hell to get through. This is not ideal on engine or drivetrain or suspension( it just sounds
great and looks impressive). The modern electronic diesel usually makes its peak torque figure between 1700-2000 rpm ,not only that but the peak
torque figure is close to twice that of a petrol motor of the same size. Lets look at facts in europe you can get a 1.9 lt four cylinder TDI that
makes 110kw of power,thats above average for a 1.9 but more importantly it makes 320 n.m. of torque at 1900 rpm. Thats as much torque at half the revs
as a 3.8 V6 commodore engine! With 60 mpg to boot.Now here is the BAD part about hi tech diesels,1...They are hard to find ,2...they are bloody
expensive to purchase.3...........See 1 and 2. I could rant and rave about hi tech diesels all day,but I wont bore you to tears. Heres my reasons why
you should and why i will be converting to turbo diesel ........No one else has one........people tell you not to..........you also want to run 35inch
tyres without boggingdown into a stall...........you want to half your fuel cost( With the option of making your own,eg biodiesel)........you could
eat any petrol jap motor for breakfast in real challenging terrain.......ooooohhhhh You've stirred up a hornets nest now Greg.
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dak dak ute
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| posted on June 24th, 2004 at 10:44 PM |
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thnaks dubcab for the support....... i curently have the subie motor........ but i want different......... everyone has subie....
diesel is really good at a crawl........ thats why fourbies are diesel if you actually do lots of 4wd......... petrol only have an advantage really
with bulk revs...... diesels make the torque..... just down low in the rev range...... more like an original beetle motor
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humpty
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| posted on June 27th, 2004 at 02:23 PM |
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Listen to DubCab...he knows what he is saying. If you want a car that you can take anywhere, and I mean anywhere that you can't get PULP. If any of
you guys have been really remote, the only fuel that you can easierly get is diesel. Remember all the mining vehiles run diesel. Getting PULP on the
Gunbarrel Hwy cost a load more that diesel. And diesel engines handle low rev chuggubg situations way better than any petrol engine ever will.....
Go to it.
And the easiest way to do this in a VW is to go the TDI late bus set-up that I have. All bolt in to any 091 or later bus transaxle. And the sump is
not an issue. The TDI golf sump is a cast alli job with all the fitting for turbo oil drain. All VERY strong.
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pete wood
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| posted on June 28th, 2004 at 10:24 AM |
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to dubcab,
the europeans do make good turbo diesels. However, I think your exagerating a bit to say that there are no good Jap ones. If this were the case there
wouldn't be massive numbers of 4wd guys using them in offroad super trucks.
Isuzu have an amazing reputation for jap diesels engines and the Toyota diesels are improving.
The americans also make some amazing diesels and have been doing so for more than 80 years. Turbo diesels actually started in america in the 1920s.
As for mechanical pump diesels. For deep river crossings they are the king. Just like any engine, at the end of the day they are as good as the tuner.
I know of guys in the 4wd scene who actually swap from efi to mechanical on particular engines as is just so much simpler and just as effective.
You are right in saying that the Europeans have been developing small diesels, but so have the japs. We just don't see many of them.
Humpty,
About the late golf tdi option, it sounds great, but it will cost a mint and parts will be expensive and hard to find, so taking it "anywhere" will
be effected by that.
Dak dak ute,
I reckon you should do it if you really want to, individuality is a great thing. You will just have to use your imagination to work out what is going
to be the best and most economical setup for building it in Australia.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 28th, 2004 at 01:20 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dubcab
you could eat any petrol jap motor for breakfast in real challenging terrain.......ooooohhhhh You've stirred up a hornets nest now Greg.
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ok Greg, you've been in my Baja around blackduck. Now you can't honestly tell me that I ever even looked like having a lack of low end smoothness or
torque. And you can't seriously tell me that my car would go any further offroad with a turbo diesel in it.
Brad is correct. A 2WD VW will never get enough traction to make use of any extra torque that a turbo diesel may have over a MPFI late model jap
engine.
If fact I would go as far as to say my V6 would get further than a turbo diesel offroad, due to the fact when the going get's tough I can plant the
throttle and let the engine rev out to almost 8,000rpm, which is a decent wheel speed. You need to do this on steep slippery hills, especially if
it's muddy. However in the turbo diesel, you would need to click it into 2nd or possibly third to get enough wheel speed, but then you've got no
torque left because the higher gear ratio's take it all away.
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Brad
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| posted on June 28th, 2004 at 07:04 PM |
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"If fact I would go as far as to say my V6 would get further than a turbo diesel offroad,"
Righto .. my Turbo Diesel Hilux against your Baja .......
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on June 28th, 2004 at 07:32 PM |
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This is getting pretty interesting!!!
Kruizin Kol
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type2nut
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| posted on June 28th, 2004 at 08:40 PM |
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Interesting indeed
I would love to see the results of some real life comparisons such as these.
The ONLY point I am sure of in this debate is that we Australians generally have an unfairly poor opinion of TD engines.
Now, let the bout continue.......
Andy.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on June 29th, 2004 at 08:44 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Buggy Brad
"If fact I would go as far as to say my V6 would get further than a turbo diesel offroad,"
Righto .. my Turbo Diesel Hilux against your Baja .......
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I'm talking MPFI V6 baja vs turbo diesel baja :P
Gotta have an equal playing field here.
[Edited on 28-6-2004 by Baja Wes]
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dak dak ute
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| posted on June 29th, 2004 at 05:33 PM |
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hey wes if i do it, i might have to hold you up to that one..... still contemplating though...... depends on cost.... and how fast i break my subie
motor
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Brad
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| posted on June 30th, 2004 at 07:35 AM |
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mm righto I will leave it in 2WD then 
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humpty
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| posted on July 1st, 2004 at 12:02 AM |
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This one's got some talk going ain't it?
If you want to go TDI just to be different, then budget isn't an issue really is it?
If you want a unbelievable low MPG, then TDI is your ticket...
If you want bulk transaxle smashing torque, then TDI is the duck nuts...
If you want F1 like RPM, then listen to Wes.
As for a LSD diff in your 2WD...It can be done, then jumping rocks a slow speed is very possible in a 2WD....
But we are talking VERY large coin for this, and really is there a need?
Build your ute, then tell us all if it was worth it. Wes did it his way, and I must say I like it, but that is not the only way. When my brother built
his RS Liberty powered Notchback all those years ago, everyone said "it couldn't be done". "And even if you do it, you can't make it legal",
well they were wrong... And now everyone is doing it!
I myself like to go hard around corners, offroad doesn't blow my bag.....
Bring on my SVX powered bus!!!!
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seagull
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| posted on July 1st, 2004 at 12:07 AM |
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I forgot to bring the tape measure the other night Simon ! cry
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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Baja Wes
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| posted on July 1st, 2004 at 08:45 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by humpty
If you want F1 like RPM, then listen to Wes.
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And still have as much torque as the TDi anyway.
Well it all depends on what TDI your talking about.
The golf 1.9L TDI is 90HP, and has 210Nm of torque.
My V6 is 200HP, and 224Nm of torque.
So on those simple specs the V6 is looking much stronger. But the TDi makes it's 210Nm of torque at only 1800rpm, and the V6 makes it's peak torque
at 5,500rpm I hear you say. But that's deceiving too, as the V6 torque curve is very flat. That 224Nm is almost constant from 4500 to 5500. And below
that it is still very strong. If fact from the dyno charts I have seen it's got 195Nm available at only 2,000rpm, which is coming very close to
matching the 210Nm at 1800rpm of the TDi.
So really the torque advantage down low of the TDi is trivial, but the lack of top end is a bit loss. Especially considering I can still be in first
gear when the TDi needs to be in second. I could put gears in my gearbox twice as low as the TDi, still have the same kph range in each gear, but have
twice as much torque in each gear.
And you also have to understand how the VW's go offroad. They are not like a 4WD, they are more like a trailbike. And if you've ridden a trailbike,
you certainly wouldn't want a TDi in one of those.
Sure the TDi will probably get better fuel economy, but I really don't care about economy, it never entered the equation. If I could've put a 4L
lexus V8 in I would have
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dak dak ute
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| posted on July 1st, 2004 at 05:48 PM |
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i went everywhere in my old dub without going over 4000rpm, no problems at all........i used to go with the patrols, and keep up with them except
where i didnt have the torque..... i needed the revs instead of crawling through at idle......
fuel economy may not be an issue to some, but to me it is a big thing...... specially for longer trips and stuff like that,
its good to get everyones opinon on this, thanks everyone, keep going.... i am goning to see about getting a diesel on the weekend.. so maybe soon
how much is it for an adaptor plate for the v6 then wes......... and what sort of fuel economy do you get....... i
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