| [ Total Views: 1093 | Total Replies: 17 | Thread Id: 30193 ] |
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 scottbugged
Seriously Crusin Dubber
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 11:02 AM |
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carbies or fuel injected?
I have a 1600 tp super bug, Getting work done on motor to make it 1916cc, What is better single carbie, twin carbie, or fuel injected. can't afford
turbo or supercharger so please don't suggest them. Many Many Thanks.
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PurpleT3
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 11:10 AM |
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Fuel injected is best, but if you cann't afford turbo etc you probably cann't afford FI either. Your best option is probably a pair of Webbers or
Kadrons.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
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scottbugged
Seriously Crusin Dubber
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 11:16 AM |
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Thanks purpleT3, I didn't know injection was going to be so expensive, I have had webers some of my other cars (not vw) and didn't like them much, I
am also leaning towards 4su carbies of a Triumph TC 2500.
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PurpleT3
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 12:09 PM |
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There is an extensive thread about after market FI which covers alot of material. Do a search on fuel injection and you'll come up with alot of
info.
Webbers are supposedly the best carbs for VWs, so just about everbody uses them. It would be interesting to see somebody use another set up.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
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56astro
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 01:25 PM |
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As Purple said, EFI is expensive, but I believe the cost may be worth it. But to ultimately decide which way to jump, let us know what your 1916 will
be going into, and what it'll be used for.
I'm 99% going EFI but first want to see what improvements EFI has with some other forum members cars. If drivability is a big issue then twin
pluggedheads from Stan Pobjoy would be my first port of call.
Many people will say Webers are the best suited to VW's, but you need to match your carbs with your head and cam, and the intended use.
Some more details would be good though.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
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VWFREAK
A.k.a.: Peter / Bones
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 03:38 PM |
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For a 1916, 44IDF webbers would be the perfect choice or even Kadrons jeted to suit if your on a tight budget.
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scottbugged
Seriously Crusin Dubber
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 06:24 PM |
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thanks for all the tips guys and girls. "56astro" to answer your question it is staying in my 71 superbug as a daily driver, Got the motor
"rebuilt" 1 year ago but was driving home from work and blew the number 2 sparkplug clean out of the head (not a very nice sound to hear on a
highway at 2am). :cussing
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56astro
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 07:29 PM |
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With 040 heads and std valves, Weber 44IDFs may be a little big, and would be better with Kadrons or smaller IDFs.
With bigger valved heads the 44IDFs would be OK.
You need to match everything!
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
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scottbugged
Seriously Crusin Dubber
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| posted on October 18th, 2004 at 07:32 PM |
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To many options and variables for me to think straight, will close my eyes and hand motor over to Pobjoy and let him go for it (will have to keep
saving).
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VWCOOL
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| posted on October 19th, 2004 at 06:39 PM |
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There's a bloke on here selling Kadrons - they are a GREAT simple, no-tune carby for a reasonably healthy (eg: 1916cc) engine. You should be able tio
get some for under $500. Yes, EFI is nice - I will proabably be fitting injection soon to my new engine - but I'll be saving up $3K for hardware
before I even start asking questions...
Pay your debts, CxxT
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ratty 63
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| posted on October 20th, 2004 at 02:21 PM |
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I've just converted a 1641cc engine to EFI (full engine management actually - spark and fuel) - it cost me, including every nut, bolt and hose clamp
just over 2K. This is a top of the range system, so EFI should be able to be achieved at less cost if you don't go for a top line ECU.
The drivablilty of an EFI fitted engine will win every time over a carbied engine ... you only have to go to a VW show and listen to the way that most
of the twin carbed cars run to see that...
Of course, carbs may be the cheaper option here ... it all depends on what you want to do - me personally, having driven a couple of EFI fitted
air-cooled VW's (not mine yet  ), I doubt that I will ever use a carb (or
carbies) on another car unless it is 100% restored. It's just too good having an old car that starts perfectly every time, runs smoothly regardless
of air temp/engine temp/revs/load and is even capable of self tuning - Ya just can't beat that - to my mind it's worth the 2K.
The car that I drove was a '65 Notch with a 2 litre engine and a basic 'screwdriver tune' EFI computer. The car had only been tuned by ear (not
the best way to do it!) and it went hard when the throttle was mashed, however it was so polite at low revs that you could happily drive around the
suburbs in 3rd and 4th gear and not be aware of its potential. Something you could drive hard, then hand the keys to your Mother so that she could go
to the shops - without having to worry about it!
...just my opinion 
R
PS: have a look at my Web site - all the details about the EFI conversion are on there....
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VWCOOL
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| posted on October 20th, 2004 at 03:26 PM |
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I'm interested to see your EFI setup... How do we see your website?
Pay your debts, CxxT
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VWCOOL
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| posted on October 21st, 2004 at 12:10 PM |
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ahhh! Found it.. good stuff. Wow - I thought Camira hardware/wiring and kalmaker would be a sensible way to go and you have proved it already!
Pay your debts, CxxT
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on October 22nd, 2004 at 02:46 PM |
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...as you have seen, my EFI set-up is on a 1641 type I engine. We (my Brother and I) are planning of converting his 2.1 type IV in his Baja to EFI
using the same ECU/parts in the near future. The biggest issue with this conversion is the creation/modification of the manifold, everything else is
relativley straight forward.... looking forward to this!
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nbturbo
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| posted on October 22nd, 2004 at 10:36 PM |
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Ratty-what did you end up doing for the temp sensor and where did you mount it(the one that normally goes into the coolant on the Camira)
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dragbug
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| posted on October 23rd, 2004 at 12:30 AM |
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Pffff,
Cant beat the sound of a set of webers,
Leave the efi to the japs.
Dubs were doin eazy 11's in the 60's with no EFI.
I'm a purist tho!
"O.S.K"
We make it happen!
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 23rd, 2004 at 12:41 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dragbug
Pffff,
Cant beat the sound of a set of webers,
Leave the efi to the japs.
Dubs were doin eazy 11's in the 60's with no EFI.
I'm a purist tho!
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Then get a Weber EFI setup and have the best of both worlds.......:bounce:bounce
tssnq.com.au
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on October 25th, 2004 at 10:58 AM |
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| Quote: | by
NBTURBO
Ratty-what did you end up doing for the temp sensor and where did you mount it(the one that normally goes into the coolant on the Camira)
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I didn't use a temp sender from the Camira, instead I used the 'Temp sensor II' from a factory injected type III or type IV set up (they both use
the same sensor). This sensor screws into the top of the head beside the intake (on fuel injected heads - not all twin port heads have the fitting).
The heads on my test engine don't have the fitting, so I have just wedged the sensor between the cooling fins, very close to where it would normally
be fitted. It reads the temp fine and is actually fairly close to what I would expect the water temp to be on a water cooled car. This means that I
can use the overtemp function of the Delco ECU without a problem (the overtemp function will supply more fuel and retard the spark when the engine
begins to get too hot, then, if it still gets hotter, it will begin to cut the spark to the cylinders in an effort to cool things down).
| Quote: | by DRAGBUG
Cant beat the sound of a set of webers,
Leave the efi to the japs.
Dubs were doin eazy 11's in the 60's with no EFI.
I'm a purist tho!
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...hmmm, perhaps for a drag only car, but it you plan on driving it on the road, in traffic, every day a set of antique carbs can be a pain - the
noise from them can also be very annoying when you cover great distances at highway speeds, then there is the problem of them going out of tune
whenever the air temp/humidity/engine temp changes...nah, I'll pass! .... although they (duel carbs) do look the business!
| Quote: | by MICK H
Then get a Weber EFI setup and have the best of both worlds....
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...Mick, is the Webber system a closed loop system? Is it fuel only or full engine management. I can't remember why I decided not to go for this
system.....
R
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on October 25th, 2004 at 01:10 PM |
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Full engine management and closed loop (you can change between open/closed). It appears to be very flexible but due to unforseen fuel and coil
problems,i have been unable to fully exploit it as yet. Should be on the dyno this Wednesday for a good workout but i may not use the supplied ecu.
will decide on the day...
[Edited on 25-10-2004 by Mick H]
tssnq.com.au
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ratty 63
A.k.a.: Rossco
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| posted on October 25th, 2004 at 01:58 PM |
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Mick, sounds like a good system! Wonder why I ruled it out....?:duh
What sort of probems are you having? I think I have seen almost everything that could go wrong when I set up my system :blush, so I would be
inerested to hear about it....
R
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