| [ Total Views: 2226 | Total Replies: 41 | Thread Id: 35883 ] |
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 1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on March 7th, 2005 at 09:46 PM |
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Saw Jaks car run
Hi
I saw Jak run his car at Eastern Creek on Sunday. He had some tyre issues but the car ran sweet up until I had to leave to go to work.
Its so quiet and the whole build up is a credit to him.
In Jaks group was a stock WRX, after on run it came in with a big end knock, poor guy. Jak said to him "what do you rev it too?" he said 7,000 rpm,
Jaks reply was I only take mine to 5,500, the WRX guy said I had to rev it 7 to keep up with you. On the track the WRX would get onto Jaks tail
around corners and under brakes, on the straights Jak just walked away from the WRX, all on 7 psi boost.
Steve
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Oasis
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| posted on March 7th, 2005 at 11:43 PM |
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Hasta la Vista baby. Go jak go....
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"
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GL1972
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 07:12 AM |
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Coming down the straight to turn one you'd think he'd run out of fuel and was coasting. The thing was so quiet!
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fullnoise
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 09:52 AM |
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Don't worry about the tyre problems.
I'm going to go to Jak's place and confiscate his tyres.
CYA CT
esratrams
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Oasis
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 11:40 AM |
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Yep, sounded like a jet engine whistle. great sound, and very unique.
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"
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VWFOOL
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 11:44 AM |
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i har jaks has gone to a wrx motor, is that right? the ppl from the euro day r still talking about his exit from the show, awesome...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One man's junk...
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Oasis
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| posted on March 8th, 2005 at 12:03 PM |
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Yep, WRX
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"
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Che Castro
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| posted on March 15th, 2005 at 02:07 PM |
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yes it was very quiet. Sounded like a jet engine with that whistle from the turbo 
Jon
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Cam
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| posted on March 15th, 2005 at 02:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by fullnoise
I'm going to go to Jak's place and confiscate his tyres.
CYA CT
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LOL, sounds good CT, maybe he needs some of those Exige tyres like on your oval, or would his car be too heavy?
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gayanne
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| posted on March 29th, 2005 at 10:16 PM |
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Yeh made the trip down from valla and pic up Peter Korsche to see how jakos going well done jako just a little quiet for me but it keeps the dark side
pumping and with slicks on the car should be a lot quicker.JVLRacing
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boof2332
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| posted on March 31st, 2005 at 05:56 AM |
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Mine is off to SAS for 2 days of dyno tuning, next week. (finally)When I told the guy Jak was still on his start up maps...he did not believe me...he
said there are 2 cars out there..the one he is in and the one after its been on a dyno...and they are nothing alike.
And I didnt think that smile could get any bigger..well it will, so watch out kids!
Matt
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gayanne
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| posted on March 31st, 2005 at 08:57 AM |
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Matt, What sought of dyno figs do you think you will get? These different dynos are giving out different stats.There was a dyno test day using a BA
XR8 and gave 3 different readings these results were in the mag called Performance Buildups something to think about.Ive said to jako a few times i
believe engine dynos are the better way to go.A direct hp fig. to a motor gearbox in a dub is nearly spot on from engine dyno some people think we
lose 10%+.My figs of the eng dyno made 300hp+detuned.Have fun keep the dark side realJVLRacing
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speedster356
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| posted on March 31st, 2005 at 10:12 AM |
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I've had two recent dyno runs (excluding the CBB run) and have had very similar results.
C&V performance and Heltech, both Dyno Dynamics and both within 1.5 RWHP of each other.
As a tuning aid the chassis dyno is fantastic, but other than that...well
Spyder-WISD 07-09-05 11.6s @ 125 MPH
Speedster-WISD Nats 05 14.4s @ 89 MPH
Jet cruiser-Coogee 22-09-05 900 deg C @ 110,000 rpm
Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals....................Except the Weasel.
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gayanne
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| posted on March 31st, 2005 at 11:05 PM |
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But you still had different readings,these readings were done on Dyno Dynamics,Dynamic test systems rig and a Dynlog.JVLRacing
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boof2332
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| posted on April 9th, 2005 at 04:45 PM |
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I have never really thought about the figures that the motor would put out.....just that it would be alot faster than any i had owned before. The
turbo it has makes power hard from really low revvs to about 6k (used in group N rally wrx's) and with the power up pipe, filter and microtech, I
figured the power would be pretty good...flat torque curve also.
It will be ready on Monday, it has had the cold start tuned in and they fixed the map sensor problem..all is left is a short to the intercooler
fans...once they can operate, its on the dyno for 2-4 hours. From what I have seen and heard the guys are freaks when it comes to aftermarket
injection and forced induction.
There should be my dyno chart on here by tuesday...thats if I can get out of the car to post them.
Matt
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gayanne
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| posted on April 10th, 2005 at 11:09 AM |
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Sounds good Matt heard alot from Jako enjoy have fun this will scare you.YEH HA!.JVLRacing
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 18th, 2005 at 03:09 PM |
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how did it all go ??
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VWCOOL
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| posted on April 18th, 2005 at 04:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by gayanne
Matt, What sought of dyno figs do you think you will get? These different dynos are giving out different stats.There was a dyno test day using a BA
XR8 and gave 3 different readings these results were in the mag called Performance Buildups something to think about.Ive said to jako a few times i
believe engine dynos are the better way to go.A direct hp fig. to a motor gearbox in a dub is nearly spot on from engine dyno some people think we
lose 10%+.My figs of the eng dyno made 300hp+detuned.Have fun keep the dark side realJVLRacing
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What does 'detuned' mean? Don't allow yourself to sound like a P-plater who has lost a street race in his EXA because 'My intercooler wasn't
boosting' or some other The Fast And The Furious crap. Driveline loss? The fact the wheels are near the gearbox doesn't make it any less or more
efficient than a front-engine, rear-drive car - around 25 percent loss. It's the energy available at the treads that will help you get the results
that REALLY count. And dynos, being as sensitive as they are, will measure even small differences in output so of course most dyno runs will give
different numbers by a few percent. Forget diffeent brands of dynos, consistency, the one dyno should be used to measure the net change of a
modification to tune etc
[Edited on 18/4/2005 by VWCOOL]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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gayanne
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| posted on April 18th, 2005 at 05:35 PM |
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Vwcool that is correct about the dynos,so which of them do we use?There was more then a couple of kw% difference check out mag called Performance
Build up and go to the soap box section .I disagree with you about the transfer hp to the wheels there less moving parts between vw compare to a front
engine car transfer to rear. with moving parts.When i talk of detune eg. japan subie spec motors to Aust subie spec motors they are not tuned with
same hps figs. even the yanks have more kws .when sold to our shores .Just bought a XR8 BA Falcon and they not tune to there potenial but the tune
they use is to make the motor last.eg Police Xr8s boost ther kws by tuning the computer (not using a different chip or computer)for us to do this cost
us 2k this was in a mag called Motor.I will find the specs on the subies and get back to you.JVLRacing
[Edited on 18/4/2005 by gayanne]
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 18th, 2005 at 05:42 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by gayanne
My figs of the eng dyno made 300hp+detuned.keep the dark
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Yeah I had a laugh at this as well.................what does the + mean, if the engine dyno was so accurate then you should be able to quote an exact
HP fig...........and why would you detune an engine ????
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VWCOOL
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| posted on April 18th, 2005 at 06:08 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by gayanne
Vwcool that is correct about the dynos,so which of them do we use?There was more then a couple of kw% difference check out mag called Performance
Build up and go to the soap box section .I disagree with you about the transfer hp to the wheels there less moving parts between vw compare to a front
engine car transfer to rear. with moving parts.When i talk of detune eg. japan subie spec motors to Aust subie spec motors they are not tuned with
same hps figs. even the yanks have more kws .when sold to our shores .Just bought a XR8 BA Falcon and they not tune to there potenial but the tune
they use is to make the motor last.eg Police Xr8s boost ther kws by tuning the computer (not using a different chip or computer)for us to do this cost
us 2k this was in a mag called Motor.I will find the specs on the subies and get back to you.JVLRacing
[Edited on 18/4/2005 by gayanne]
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Dynos - it doesn't matter... you could use one that has rocks in it and has an output in pink flowers... if you have 3 pink flowers at the wheels in
the morning and then fit a new super-boosted chromed flowerpot and then measure 4 pink flowers in the afternoon, you have gained 1 pink flower (25
percent). Easy... Goddamn, that's first year trade mechanics.
Detune... as soon as you fit an aftermarket management system, the OE JDM, ADR or USA calibration doesn't matter any more, cos it's NOT THERE
ANYMORE... Have you tuned your car on a dyno? On a road? At all...? If not, why are you wasting time and money by taking it to a track and not tuning
there??
Cars on dynos can produce several percent difference in one day due to knock retard, humidity, heat etc. Dynos are crap as a high-performance tuning
tool, really, as they do not replicate on-road conditions especially airflow through radiators etc. That's why the engines get hot and power figures
drop. But they are okay as a controlled environment (no cops!) to get a 'basic' tune right.. surely you had your engine tuned somewhere near-correct
before you took it to a track? The track is a great place to fine-tune.
Horsepower loss - disgaree all you like. I'm right and you're not. And if you still want to peddle the urban myth that having the engine in the rear
means less power loss :duh then count the cogs... then show me an analysis of the efficiency of the gearsets' teeth, parasitic loss due to bearings
and the dynamics of lubrication...
XR8... yep the tune is 'safe' so idiot owners don't blow them up. Ford, like Holden, doesn't like too many warranty claims. And as for 'Police
chips' lol.. you are dreaming... Although it is possible using software such as Boss Edit, LS1 Edit etc to tune PCMs, for a variety of reason ($,
OHS, resale, warranty) no police service in Australia varies the calibration in the PCM/computer. None.
[Edited on 18/4/2005 by VWCOOL]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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boof2332
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 08:28 AM |
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Well.......The dyno tune is not yet complete. Due to an inability to get a proper set of weather pack connectors for the computer when I rewired the
loom two days before it went to SAS, it subsequently was experiencing a miss???? under load. Rather than charge me $600 to replace all the plugs and
terminals they suggested I do it and bring it back. I drove it home and have redone all the required and will be put back in today. Problem was
identified and fixed.
Ran the whole way on 2 cylinders- still put it off the clock in 3rd down the street....ball bearing turbo spooling up is pretty noisy, combined with
the thermos on the intercooler..it sound like a hover craft with a huge air leak.
Like I said earlier, I had never dwelled too much over HP figures, although I asked the guy when mine was on the dyno(when they identified the miss),
he said that a wrx with the same mods makes about 165kw at the wheels. As mine has only 2 driving wheels not 4, and no power steering etc the figure
he said he should get is about 200kw at the wheels....then smiled and said "lucky you are as big as you are, to help keep the front wheels down, you
will probably need a passenger too!"
It will go back, to enable all aspects of tunability to be opened and adjusted through entire rev range, decelleration etc. It will then be taken out
on the track/street and fine tuned. Problem.... DOES ANYONE HAVE A GAS ANALYSER WE CAN USE TO STREET TUNE????
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VWCOOL
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 08:52 AM |
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lol... I'll be the passenger! I was overlooking 2WD vs 4WD and yes there aren't many 2WD WRX-powered Dubbies with stock management system to compare
power to. Yours is standard management?
[Edited on 18/4/2005 by VWCOOL]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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gayanne
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 11:32 AM |
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So we agree on the dynos no probs.:duhso your telling us a front mounted motor same hp figs (vw eg)transfer its hps down a tail shaft to the rear diff
section area is going to be the same as a vw configuration lost of power %wise (stated by you vwcool)! and read the book Motor it might give you
insight on the xr8 i have a friend that works with these xr8 patrols and he has confirmed this as well.:PJVLRacing
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GregWard
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 11:48 AM |
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Wow, I'm only new to posting here, and whilst this is quite interesting, I cannot help it, but I must say I don't know who gayanne is, but it is
extremely difficult to understand what the hell he/she is saying because all the words run together and make no sense.
Can you try and format what you are writing please? No disrespect intended, cause I'd like to hear what you have to say, but reading this is giving
me a headache...
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VWCOOL
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 11:52 AM |
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Gayanne, Craig raced his car for a decade - that's 10 years - without even knowing what power output it had because it didn't go near a dyno. A dyno
is tuning tool... you can claim and discuss all you want about de-tuning :duh but why de-tune the car and then have to set it up again when the
'proper' tune goes in? WOFTAM, I reckon...
When it comes to racing/competition, it's the results on the track that count. Craig has class records for his competition...
Pay your debts, CxxT
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vwtool
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 11:55 AM |
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For months I have watched this forum, people offering advice and engaging in arguments both serious and humerous. I have usually bit my tongue when
people corrupt discussion with argumentative, onesided and often untrue comments on threads they have no relevance, knowledge or constructive input.
This is not healthy for the life of the forum or our individual persuits, relating to vw's and other topics discussed.
VWCOOL. "i am right and you are not" please tell me this was said in gest. If it wasn't then you may be alot of things, although right is not one
of them. If the diff isnt in the box thats bolted to the motor, then there is more loss.
As for dynos being crap for high performance tuning,this is possibly the most naive, incorrect statement I have seen you post. Yes the track is the
best for fine tuning, although if you knew anything about aftermarket ecu function and tuning, you would realise the limitations of sitting in a car
with a laptop with a portable o2 sensor, trying to replicate all aspects of speed, revs, boost, load, timing and all the other variables that can be
instantly looked at on the dyno. The radiator comment was another treat. There is a huge fan in front of all dynos, despite the fact that cars have
thermo fans on their own the regulate operating temps. Cars do not overheat on dynos, and if they do get a bit hot due to the load and revs of the car
then, it can be tuned for that too! They were not designed as a HP wank tool, so who cares if they all vary slightly in figures as long as the car has
been put through aspects of performance and tuning not available by any other means. I am not going to start on the diagnostic capabilities, as my
head is hurting.
As an example, this thread was hapily plodding along, until you decided to chime in with opinions not aimed at the benefit or assistance to anyone.
Its your right to say whatever you want, I just wish you could loose that chip off your shoulder as your knowledge can obviously assist those newer to
the scene.
Sorry for the ramble guys....
[Edited on 19/4/2005 by vwtool]
Certain people need to be realise exactly where they are postioned on the food chain!
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vwtool
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 12:08 PM |
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And isnt this about seeing Jaks car run??? Also Craigs car has carby's, so apart from changing jets and timing, then the only thing a dyno will do is
print you a hp figure.
Certain people need to be realise exactly where they are postioned on the food chain!
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 01:10 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by boof2332
It will go back, to enable all aspects of tunability to be opened and adjusted through entire rev range, decelleration etc. It will then be taken out
on the track/street and fine tuned. Problem.... DOES ANYONE HAVE A GAS ANALYSER WE CAN USE TO STREET TUNE????
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Vintage VW has one..................not too sure if they would hire it out ?!
Thanks for the update Matt, how does the new gearbox feel?
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speedster356
A.k.a.: Peter Mcleod
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 02:50 PM |
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I have a laptop with an AFM program on it. The hardware is an O2 sensor and a "black box" that then runs real time to the laptop. Gives you a nice
pretty graph which can be downoaded.:thumb
I haven't used it for years but I'll dig it out.
Spyder-WISD 07-09-05 11.6s @ 125 MPH
Speedster-WISD Nats 05 14.4s @ 89 MPH
Jet cruiser-Coogee 22-09-05 900 deg C @ 110,000 rpm
Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals....................Except the Weasel.
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