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 waltermitty
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 06:07 PM |
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Holden V6 Vs ej22 in bay ???
It seems that the subi is all the go , and with Brads excellent conversion it has much going for it. I am curious as to why it seems prefered over the
3.8 lt V6 . Is it simply rego issues.IE compliance/ engineering issues? How hard is it to rego with either conversion? What is the performance
comparrison?
Whats The full story ?
Mitchl
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vwtyp2
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 06:41 PM |
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I have engineers approval for my V6.
maybe it's a weight issue.
What are some 1/4 mile times of some Subie engine Bays?
A friend has an EJ20t in a T25 and has run 16.1
I have run 16.2 in my V6 Bay.
What's the difference in torque between the two?
I have towed a splitty loaded to the windows with parts on a trailer, and had 3 gearboxes, an engine, and a pile of tools, and still cruised the
freeway at more than what is legally permissable in S.A. |
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phatrat
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 11:12 PM |
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I think engineering would not be a problem for either motors due to the fact the bay as a full chassis. I haven't been in a subi powered bay but have
been in a supercharged Holden V6 and that was a white knuckle ride..
I would be inclined to go the Holden V6 simple because of cost parts/service as most mechanics know their way around a Holden...
but at $8800 drive in/out is very tempting.......:thumb
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StenGuns
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| posted on April 19th, 2005 at 11:31 PM |
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How about 3.4 alloytec (pricey) but more output than the ecotec and lighter due to alloy block.. I'm not sure.. just asking the question>
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wacked1
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 09:37 AM |
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ok here are the prices of subi half cuts.but no ej20
the main concern would be the price of subi engines. consider this when you can get a v6 for as little as $400 complete with loom etc this would be
the early vn/vp motor
i got my old motor for $300 complete. the commo motor is good reliable and cheap to get parts for from your local parts shop.
ref http://www.japparts.com.au/products/stock-arriving.html
Subaru SVX EG33 Auto NonTurbo AWD 1 $3,300
Subaru WRX GC8 EJ20T Man5Spd Turbo AWD 1 $3,300
Legacy/Liberty EJ20TT Manual Twin Turbo AWD 2 P.O.A
Legacy/Liberty EJ20T Manual Turbo AWD 2 $2,500
Subaru Liberty EJ20T-Early Auto Turbo AWD 1 $2,400:sandrine
YOU HAVE JUST BEEN DAKED
don't worry it's a VW thing
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vwtyp2
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 09:42 AM |
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$8800 drive in/drive out.
for $10,000 you can have mine, drive up/drive off.
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MikeM
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 09:51 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwtyp2
$8800 drive in/drive out.
for $10,000 you can have mine, drive up/drive off.
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What Motor is in it? Where's the Radiator?
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vwtyp2
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 10:04 AM |
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vp v6.
radiator is underneath.
from the outside, it's virtually undetectable.
the only giveaway is that the exhaust sits a little lower. |
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Brad
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 10:10 AM |
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Ok,
The reason I picked the EJ22 was due to the ease of fitment and the fact they are economical, easy for parts, reliable and a great fit. The ej 22 fits
in the bay without any cutting at all. It averages just under 10 L per 100km and needs bugger all servicing.
I have worked on a few V6 kombi's and they go like stink, use more fuel than the EJ's and you have to cut stuff to get them in.
When the EJ22 is in the kombi you can easily get to everything and service it in there. The V6 fits but it is a little tighter
That being said I would go :
V6 - If I wanted to tow heaps and torque was important to me.
EJ22 - If I was after an economical engine which fits easy.
In order to make a viable fixed price drive in / drive out product we needed to select one engine and learn everything about it we could. We selected
the EJ22 as our engine but that is not to say the v6 isn't a better option for someone doing their own conversion. For us a V6 would cost more as we
would have to start again.
The other consideration with the EJ22 was that it's power is nice and smooth so breaking stuff is not likely.
I think the owner needs to decide on what they want from their bus and select and engine to match.
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vwtyp2
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 10:17 AM |
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I can understand why someone would go the subi option.
If I was to get another heart transplanted van, it'd be a subi.
My van was built as a tow car, and it does it exceptionally well.
Probably better than a brand new Forester.
Yes, it has a lot of torque. So much so that I spent $3000 on the gearbox to handle it. |
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Brad
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 01:03 PM |
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whats the fuel use like ?
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vwtyp2
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 02:35 PM |
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did a run last week, 200km away to recover a '66 singlecab.
Got there and 100km towards home again on a tank.
that's sitting on 120 kph both ways. |
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VWENVY
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 02:37 PM |
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I assume you were pulling a car trailer there and a ute back!?
What are you reving at 120kph? |
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vwtyp2
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 02:42 PM |
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yep.
just under 3000.
0.70 4th gear |
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Baldy67
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 04:11 PM |
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i would go the subie......like brad said,you dont have to cut anything to get the motor in and they are easy to work on.........cheers......vaughn
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Brad
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| posted on April 20th, 2005 at 05:28 PM |
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So 300km on 65 L of fuel .. yeah ???
So 21.7 L per 100 km
So over double an EJ22
If you did 20 000 km in a year
EJ 22 - 2000L @ $1.05 per L so $2100 in fuel
V6 - 4340 L @ $1.05 per L so $4557 in fuel
mmm so in a year you would save $2457 in fuel alone, that is a lot of $$$. That an the EJ 22 is happy with the stock gearbox so you save another $2000
if you run a stock rebuilt as oppossed to a custom one.
So in a year an EJ 22 would be say $4400 ahead.....
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VWENVY
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 08:38 AM |
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65L tank?
Thats not an accurate comparison!!
He was pulling a car trailer then a car trailer with a ute on it, and sitting on 120kph all the way, so yeah he would be chewing the juice! Whats the
comparable service life with that sort of work! V6 would be out in front!
I doubt whether an EJ22 could pull that sort of weight comfortably particularly in a bay that has to be significantly heavier than the Liberty
already. I drive an outback with a 2.5l and yeah its torquey, but like any engine if you make it work it chews the juice!
Like has been said there are pros and cons to each and comes down to desired use! if i was going to tow that sort of weight consistently id would be
the V6 for sure! otherwise the 22 is ideal! Without going into semantics and doing a full cost breakdown the comparison isnt at all accurate!
Just my 5 cents! |
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vwtyp2
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 09:01 AM |
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a friend had an EJ20 na in a T25.
he was getting 420km out of a tank. and that's a 70 litre tank.
put the trailer behind it, and it dropped back to around 350km.
I was getting about 300km to the tank out of my 73 camper with a 2 litre and an auto, so about the same as the V6. there's no way that the 2 litre
could pull a car on a trailer at 120kph for 2 hours and not feel the strain.
I probably could get better fuel economy out of the V6, but I drive it with a lot of right foot. |
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Brad
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 09:17 AM |
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mmm A liberty weighs more than a Bay window kombi so a bay is lighter than the subie. The gearing is also different to the subie.
I used the fuel figures I was given, 65L was from the post I put in the tech section.
I have towed my car trailer weight 850 kg and a kombi weight 1100 kg - so 1950 kg all up with my EJ 22 powered Dual Cab. It was only for about 100 km
but it was over the Samford range but it did it quite comfy like .... Not as comfy as a V6 but more than happy...
horses for courses ...
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MikeM
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 09:23 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWENVY
65L tank?
I doubt whether an EJ22 could pull that sort of weight comfortably particularly in a bay that has to be significantly heavier than the Liberty
already. I drive an outback with a 2.5l and yeah its torquey, but like any engine if you make it work it chews the juice!
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Well actually, a bay kombi is lighter then a liberty. The TARE (empty weight, on compliance plate) of a kombi is about 1200kg and the TARE of the
Liberty is about 1450kg. Even an Impreza is 1350kg. So a kombi should go well with a EJ20,22,25.
Also Kombi is only 2wd so there should be less drive train drag.
The EJ is a better all around solution as you don't have to cut up the kombi. I'm a big fan of preserving VWs. Bay windows are the Splits of
tommorow. If we cut them all up in 20 years time on the forum there will be people asking why some idiot cut up that mint 76 bus to put an ancient 25
year old clapped out 2000 model V6 in it.
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MikeM
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 09:24 AM |
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Now I sound like an idiot cuz brad made a post while I was typing mine :duh
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VWENVY
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 09:30 AM |
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Well here we go on semantics!
Read the post in context!!
:jesus |
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vwtyp2
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 09:32 AM |
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so it's fairly simple then?
V6 if you want to have plenty of towing power.
Subie if you want fuel economy? |
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Brad
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 11:26 AM |
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of a V8 if you want to be the begining of a new era ... it wasn't that long ago when people were afraid of the EJ22's
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MikeM
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 11:30 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by VWENVY
Well here we go on semantics!
Read the post in context!!
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I did.
You said "bay that has to be significantly heavier than the Liberty already". I corrected you with valid information.
I don't get your problem?
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MikeM
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 11:32 AM |
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friggin brad....... why do you always post while I'm typing a reply?
You're good at makin me look like I'm following you around.
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VWENVY
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 11:55 AM |
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...Context of the full post!!!!!
Subaru state liberty weight from 1137-1300kg kerb weight for mid '90s awd! There is a huge range of weights if you consider awd, ft wd, sedan, wagon,
auto, manual, red, white... So wherevever you get your 'valid info' from is anyones guess! What is the real weight of a bay with subi-powerplant and
related guff? Its not 1100 or 1200kg! whichever is correct! but who cares!? If im wrong on weight then so be it - i have no problem being corrected on
that assumption!!
The context i was refering to was the comparison of fuel economy from a V6 bay pulling weight at speed over a subi powered bay cruzing around with no
load - then those figures stretched to give a cost comparison over a year!! not a fair or accurate comparison at all, and that was my point - get it!!
Your caught up in the semantics of weight, and you missed the point!!
I didnt bag either option - Id like the economy of the subi, but id love the hammer of the V6! horses for courses is right!
So whats your problem!?
[Edited on 21-4-2005 by VWENVY] |
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phatrat
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 01:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by MikeM
friggin brad....... why do you always post while I'm typing a reply?
You're good at makin me look like I'm following you around.
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I had that same thought:P
Lets wait for Wes and Excel...to put this one to bed...
[Edited on 21/4/2005 by PHAT RAT]
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MikeM
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 01:15 PM |
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I was wrong. My figures were not quite correct. However I was correct in that a kombi is lighter then a Liberty.
The mass of my 1976 Kombi Transporter (heavist Kombi) on the compliance plate is 1240kg.
Subaru state 1365kg for a Liberty.
http://subaru.com.au/explore/liberty/specifications.asp?item=23467
The whole fuel consumption comparison in this thread is irrelevant as both cars were being used under different circumstances so they are
uncomparable.
I wasn't bagging the V6 option. All I was saying is I prefer the Subaru option as you don't have to cut up the kombi to get it in.
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Brad
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| posted on April 21st, 2005 at 01:15 PM |
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hehe I was merely using the figuers which were provided by the only V6 kombi owner on here I know of ......
I was merely an example ......
Lets just say they weigh the same :>
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