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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 04:55 PM
Disc Brakes all round for Offoaders.
Ay guys,
I have been shopping around looking at buggies for the past month or so, and it seems to be standard that the manufacturers put disc brakes on the
front and leave drum brakes at the back.
Is there any particular reason why they don't do it? (Any technical or performance reasons?)
I'm looking at getting discs all round (front and rear), but I just was wondering why these other guys don't bother. You would think that you would
need them for better braking, especially when you got fat/large rear wheels.
:duh
[Edited on 28/4/2005 by mynameischris88]
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by mynameischris88
I'm looking at getting discs all round (front and rear), but I just was wondering why these other chumps don't bother. :duh
I would help you out with some knowledge I have collected after many years of buggy ownership, but alas I am one of these "chumps" with drum brakes
on the rear so you can get stuffed.
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 05:40 PM
Young yes, clueless, (WELL Y THE HELL DO YOU THINK IM ASKING THIS QUESTION).
Whats up your ass. Chump is not an offense.
ie:
"Me and the Chumps and Chumpetes are going down to get a beer"
What is so offensive, it just means mate. Get with the times, geez. You have it all wrong, and im actually offended by the way you barked at me
because of your misunderstanding. YOUR CLUELESS. You have no clue about what the hell i was saying when it comes to saying chump. YOU HYPOCRIT.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 05:45 PM
whoa dude. settle down. play nice. where i come from "chump" isnt a term for "mate". it pays not to offend members of this forum who could supply
a huge wealth of information to you if u do go ahead with a buggy project.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 05:47 PM
No one happens to watch 'FUTURAMA' any more. It was a great show, and thats where i picked it up. And it was used for the good.
Its like how gangsters say "Oh yeah, fully sick subwoofer".
By saying sick, they don't mean disgusting, vomitted on, dirty and pukable. Its means its cool. Thats just like chump.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
bajachris88
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 05:49 PM
So for those people who don't understand my LOGIC, I have editted the message.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 05:54 PM
chump [ chump ] (plural chumps)
noun
unwise person or dupe: somebody who is unwise or easily deceived
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 06:22 PM
And sick:
sick1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sk)
adj. sick·er, sick·est
1. Suffering from or affected with a physical illness; ailing.
2. Of or for sick persons: sick wards.
3. Nauseated.
Regardless, its slang. The word "Chump" i used was in a slang way. Just because it has some other definition you don't like doesn't mean im here
to affend you. YOU SHOULDN'T JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.
Mate: sex partner,
& mate: companion, buddy etc.
They have 2 definitions, just like how i used the word chump. because i say that a GUY is my mate, doesn't mean that me is my sex partner. And just
because i say that a guy is a chump does not mean that the guy is unwise or easily deceived. You got the definition wrong, in my case.
So shut it, and move on. GET OVER IT.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 06:30 PM
My buggy has stock brakes all round (not even type 3 rear drums yet). Could it be that many buggies are not expected to do stoppies from 160 km/h?
The cost of adding big brakes all round seems to upwards of 2000 bananas (not using VW bits). On a vehicle costing 5 large upwards that is not great
value unless you really plan on getting jiggy wid it in the west side hizzy tryin to impress all your chumps.
Discs do have advantages, less fade, bugger all to adjust, easy pad changes, more stopping power etc, but unless you want to spend big bucks up front
and can find exactly what you want then you may be best to buy a basic but solid buggy and build it up exactly how you want it.
Half the fun with these things is the fun per dollar spent.
Wuuuuuurrrrd.
bajachris88
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 06:36 PM
True.
Tinsfci, I am proud of ya. Finally we have a decent person who can answer my question, and has a sense of wit and understanding. Champion job. Your a
rollmodel on this forum.
Good on ya mate, heres a :beer
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 08:17 PM
I too am laughing (but louder than you are). Its a 2-way road. lol. HA HA HA! HA! HE HE!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 08:31 PM
I have a complete set of front and rear disc brakes that i will be selling in a couple of weeks. They are beetle 4 stud pattern and have less than
500km on them. I think they sell for $1800 new but you can have then half price if you want 'em. U2U me
tssnq.com.au
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 08:35 PM
Thanks for the offer,
I haven't got the money yet, but what i do plan to do is build my dream buggy while im in university. So thats when i will have funds to come in to
purchase stuff like that. Sorry, but I haven't go the money at the moment. Thanks though.
Maybe later.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
Boozer
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posted on April 29th, 2005 at 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally
posted by mynameischris88
Young yes, clueless, (WELL Y THE HELL DO YOU THINK IM ASKING THIS QUESTION).
Whats up your ass. Chump is not an offense.
ie:
"Me and the Chumps and Chumpetes are going down to get a beer"
What is so offensive, it just means mate. Get with the times, geez. You have it all wrong, and im actually offended by the way you barked at me
because of your misunderstanding. YOUR CLUELESS. You have no clue about what the hell i was saying when it comes to saying chump. YOU HYPOCRIT.
I think you're thinking of the word, "chum" not "chump". Correct me if I'm wrong (i'm sure you will) but the word chum was a common term for
buddy, mate, friend about 50-70 years ago mostly in England. As far as I know chump has always been a offensive name for someone. I'll give you a
hint: people around here will respect you a tad more if you use caps less and spell properly, the only time I don't is on purpose or I'm drunk or
semi-dead. Also immeadiately insulting everybody is not a really good way to make friends on the net. Anywho...
Disc brake are awesome but yes are pricy, unless you're lucky. I've got discs on the front at the moment and the difference is quite big. I'm
definitely gonna go discs all round for my next one and I know a few guys on here are doing it, MUD BASHING is one. One reason a lot of people have
disc fronts and not rears is that the fronts are a lot easier to set up than the rears, and as there's more out there-cheaper.
[Edited on 28-4-2005 by Boozer]
THe MC Bat Commander's motto: "Never do now, what you could do for 24 hours straight, all night, the night before."
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posted on April 29th, 2005 at 07:49 AM
Well I am lucky enough to have drums all round, having them looked over next week in preparation for rego (soon! woohoo).
Probably a bit down the road I will look at front disks at least, maybe the whole hog later....but I can agree with the other posts on here concerning
$$. By the time you get a buggy happening and shell out all of the hidden costs, extras, etc.....what you can save in not rebuilding the brake types,
you can use for other unnecessary things, like getting seatbelts fitted...or the huge $$ for the engineering certificate itself.
I am sure you know a lot of these costs, as you've been looking apparently...but I got caught with the $$ side. A lot of things suddenly needed
doing, and as much as I investigated everything before purchasing the buggy, I still got caught with extras.
For example.....who would have thought that to get a professional to fit a set (2 only) of seatbelts, would cost minimum $700, normally more? Let
alone when the engineer, who looks at the car only twice (once when he does the initial assessment, and once when he checks it off for certification),
tells you his price will be minimum $650, depending on how many re-visits, etc.
Its a $$ exercise......and if you can keep it down by using your current brakes, then its something you look at....
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posted on April 29th, 2005 at 03:48 PM
To get back to the point of the original question (and to avoid the mindless bickering that has ensued since), whether you have discs/drums on front
or disc/drums on rear is essentially all to do with weight transference under braking, the surface upon which you drive, and how you want the car to
respond under braking depending on the surface you're driving on.
Drums and discs apply differing amounts of braking effectiveness, discs being typically more effective than drums. So with discs on the front and
drums on the rear, you're applying more braking force to the front of the car than to the rear - switch them around (assuming you could) and you'd
reverse that effect.
If you have to mix drums and discs, and typcially drive on sealed roads, then discs should always be on the front as it provides much greater control
under braking - look at any major car manufacturer that mix drums and discs, and you'll ALWAYS find the discs on the front and drums on the back.
Racing/offroad/rally applications may reverse that trend but that's because the drivers want the cars to respond differently under non-standard
conditions.
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posted on April 29th, 2005 at 03:50 PM
Wouldnt drums be fine on a buggy anyway?
considering they weigh something like half as much as a beetle..
.
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posted on April 29th, 2005 at 04:14 PM
Well, I've got a full offroad racing buggy (under rebuild conditions at this point), which probably weighs even less, and I'm going for discs on the
rear and drums on the front (and they're bias-adjustable) for a couple of reasons - by applying more force to the rear brakes (as you would in this
setup), 1) you prevent the front suspension from diving too much, allowing greater suspension movement and a better ability to ride over bumps; 2)
discs are also typically lighter, which reduces the unsprung weight, and therefore allows the shocks to control suspension movement better; and 3)
less braking force on the fronts will allow the wheels to continue revolving slightly, which allows better steering control
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posted on April 29th, 2005 at 04:27 PM
Yeah, i don't mind the idea of discs allround. Of course, like pointed out, i gotta look at the cost. I plan to build it while im in uni, so i don't
have to really suffer the budgeting side and money issues to a great extend (like kids, mortgage etc.). But if i can only afford drums, so be it.
Anyway, with my pricing, for an appropriate rolling chassis for my buggy with the offroad mods i want & disc brakes all round will cost me $6750. I
got it all planned and i got a max of 5 or 6 years of pure fund dedication (besides a bit of board and cost of uni text books, which can be pricy but
able to be delt with).
I want pure performance, (well thats what i dream), and im not saying the drum brakes are bad, (they are great) but from what i have heard, discs are
good when it comes to performance, price, fitting etc. It probably wont have much of an effect because regardless of the brake, the buggy is still
light and can stop easily with either. But just for the less price and complication of fitting (from what i heard from disc enthusiasts) i might go
with discs.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on April 29th, 2005 at 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally
posted by mynameischris88
what i do plan to do is build my dream buggy
Well another wanna be.............. I m with you MikeM, also laughing At him
mat
Once you go flat, you never go back!!!!!!
bajachris88
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posted on May 1st, 2005 at 05:58 PM
Don't u believe in following dreams?
What you have said has fueled me up more to make this buggy to DISPROVE YOU. Then we will see who is laughing!
HA HA HA HA!
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on May 2nd, 2005 at 10:49 AM
standard disks on the front and standard type 3 drums on the rear is the way to go .
fitting is factory.
parts availability is factory.
every thing is factory .
i have modified beetle disks on the front .
and modified xf falcon disks on the rear .
the disks do not stop you any better.
if at all possible stay away from the word MODIFY.
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posted on May 2nd, 2005 at 11:05 AM
Main reason I'm sticking to drums at the mo is (apart from being totally broke) is I love my 5 stud wheels, and 4 stud disc seem to be the cheap and
effective way out, the alternative for me would be to run adaptor plates as Terry's Baja has (as seen in Manx Mania #6- im not a stalker!) But in the
end mate It all comes down to MONEY. My drums can still lock up so I guess there good enough for now.
- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05 ) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)
bajachris88
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posted on May 2nd, 2005 at 11:33 AM
True, well many people go fine without discs all over. Just have to see with money.
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears.
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta!
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posted on April 28th, 2005 at 04:55 PM
) - '65 manx (smick)
-'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)