| [ Total Views: 2950 | Total Replies: 58 | Thread Id: 39139 ] |
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 baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 14th, 2005 at 07:46 PM |
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to all those who dont believe in the rear radiator setup
since registering my car on Tuesday i have been doing a bit of cruising to get everything sorted (and because its fun). as many of you already know
my bus is a '76 with an EA81 engine and a radiator mounted at the rear running twin thermo fans and a nice big hole in the back hatch to let all the
hot air out. i was a little concerned about this system after being told by many that it wouldnt work, but i am glad to say that it has been going
beautifully. i have been doing a 40km return trip to work each day without any problems.
today i headed out from my home in Chirnside Park to Frankston to pick up an annex, and beside a driveshaft parting ways with the gearbox (must have
seated it badly when refitting a couple of weeks ago) the car cruised beautifully. once i realised the temp guage was inaccurate (hit 90oC within a
minute and sat at 100 - 140 most of the time, obviously not matched to the sensor on the engine) the temp seemed beautiful all the way, no boiling, no
sense of exessive heat from the engine or anything, so it should seem that the rear rad setup works just fine.
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MikeM
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| posted on May 14th, 2005 at 07:57 PM |
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got any photos of where you've put the radiator?
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 14th, 2005 at 08:04 PM |
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rad position
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ratbug
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| posted on May 15th, 2005 at 12:19 PM |
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Yeah my rear radiator works fine as well. Even on a 40deg day it never went above half way on the gauge and the thermo fans don't run continuosly. I
was thinking of putting it in the front, but glad i didn't as it'd be clogged with sand by now, its more protected in the back.
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 15th, 2005 at 08:49 PM |
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looks so much worse at the front too.
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pete wood
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| posted on May 15th, 2005 at 09:54 PM |
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BBCK,
No offence, but,
i'd get ya temp guage working properly before singing the the praises of your setup. 140deg sounds like very hot to me. Find out the factory specs
for temps.
What temp does the thermostat open at? Your fans should come on about 15deg higher than that at the most.
My Subie takes a while to warm up but then sits between 80 and 85 on the freeway at 110km/h. Gets to 90max after a bootful and then cools down
straight away thanx to the fans and some airflow. And it only gets that hot cause the guage reads off the top of the motor and the fanswitch is in the
top rad hose over a foot higher.
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urban_myth
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| posted on May 15th, 2005 at 10:54 PM |
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my dad tried the rear radiator when he had the holden 202 in the back of his kombi with twin thermo's on it sucking air into the engine bay and found
that it work up to speeds of 90 km/h but if you pushed any faster the temperature would climb above 100 degrees.
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1303Steve
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| posted on May 15th, 2005 at 11:30 PM |
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Hi
Are you sucking air down the stock vents in the side of the Kombi and blowing it out the back of the car?
urban_myth if your dad was sucking air into the engine bay through the radiator and into the engine bay, where did the hot air go?
Steve
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Jak Rizzo
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| posted on May 16th, 2005 at 06:41 AM |
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I'd imagine melbourne would not be the hottest place this time of year either. For the time & effort putting the radiator up the front away from
the engine heat & into some decent airflow, I would do it. Do it right the first time & then never touch it again.
Hope it all goes well.
regards
Jak
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on May 16th, 2005 at 09:53 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by TYP-114
Doesn't oil begin to separate at 125 degrees?????
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No.
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 16th, 2005 at 05:04 PM |
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you misread, guage isnt working properly, car was definitelyt not actually anywhere near 140 as water was not boiling etc. fans are setup to suck air
out of the back of the engine bay, not back into it.
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pete wood
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| posted on May 16th, 2005 at 05:34 PM |
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So have you fixed the gauge yet? 
coz dude, my temp gauge is my best friend. I keep an eye on it all the time. Nothing kills motors faster than too much heat. I belive you when you say
that ya motor is not overheating. But I wouldn't drive with out one on my car.
Now hook it up properly and tell where you are up to with it. What temp does it run at on the freeway?
How often are the fans coming on?
How many reves does it do at 100kays?
And what temp is your thermostat set to open at?
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VWCOOL
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| posted on May 16th, 2005 at 05:40 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by TYP-114
Doesn't oil begin to separate at 125 degrees?????
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No. That's a 1960s urban myth/fallacy designed to help sell oil coolers and other crap you don't really need!
[Edited on 16/5/2005 by VWCOOL]
Pay your debts, CxxT
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 16th, 2005 at 10:07 PM |
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at the moment fans are runnign constantly (wired to do so) but will probably be hooking them up to thermo soon. thermostat is standard so opens at
standard temp (not sure what this is). not sure of revvs at 100ks (also need to fix tacho) but will be same as VW as is standard 2l box.
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 helbus
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| posted on May 16th, 2005 at 11:13 PM |
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Depending on your tyres. If they are 185/75/14 then they are exactly the same rolling diameter as our 205/55/16 and that gives us 2900 rpm at 100kmh.
This is with the 2L box. If that helps at all
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rubyred
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 09:24 AM |
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seems like it would be a bit tough to do work on the engine with the radiator right there. |
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wacked1
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 09:54 AM |
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good job,
i'm putting mine in the roof section in the rear of my bus with vents to direct air into the radiator, cool air from the top of the bus. it will be
boxed in on the inside of the bus with the piping going through the air vents on the side of the bus which aids in cooling the pipes aswell. also
weldind in a early bay petrol cap door to fill the rad from the top
here is the panel thats getting welded in next week
and here is the alloy radiator from a vz commodere v8 with twin thermos
and possibly the motor going in it
rammed 350 chev
YOU HAVE JUST BEEN DAKED
don't worry it's a VW thing
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squizy
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 10:42 AM |
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Ron that is just crazy....!  Good stuff.
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pete wood
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 02:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by baybuscamperkid
at the moment fans are runnign constantly (wired to do so) but will probably be hooking them up to thermo soon. thermostat is standard so opens at
standard temp (not sure what this is). not sure of revvs at 100ks (also need to fix tacho) but will be same as VW as is standard 2l box.
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go buy a cheap temp guage and tacho.
look for the thermostat temp on the web.
You'll really only know how efficient your rad setup is when the fans are not running all the time. Trust me on this. And i wouldn't be surprised to
find that the fans aren't doing a super job either. Until I really ducted air in front of my rad, the fans were struggling to cool the rad enough on
the freeway.
BTW, where is the air for the rad coming from, up from around the hot engine, of from the top vents, or from the outside somehow?
Put some strips of paper on the car and then get a mate to drive it along the freeway while you drive behind and watch what direction the air is
flowing. That will help you know what to do next about ducting it somehow.
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Andy
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 03:52 PM |
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Sounds a bit low to me. 2L is more like ~3300rpm at 100kph.
1.8L box is ~3600rpm at a guess.
Kombi speedo's have a tendancy to read low.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Helbus
Depending on your tyres. If they are 185/75/14 then they are exactly the same rolling diameter as our 205/55/16 and that gives us 2900 rpm at 100kmh.
This is with the 2L box. If that helps at all
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koolkarmakombi
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 03:53 PM |
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BBCK,
right on you for getting it going.
The rest is the tweaking. You didnt think it was going to go right first go? Well it goes well but a few teething issues.
I reckon you could be running hot and that could explain the water loss if heaps leaking into the inlet/chamber, can vapourise and blow the vapour
through-ergo oil looks ok. Pull the plugs, could tell you if one is brown. Water cooled engines have a great big window that they will run in temp
wise. Particularly worn engines. Early corolla engines are nuts, We drove one for bloody ages to get home one noight when it was dying from a burst
rad hose. Water level dropped past the temp sender so it looked like it was running ok. You get a consistant range of warmup, then consistant for
the trip? Does it run better cool or warm?
I agree, get a temp guage sorted so you know what its doing. The numbers dont have to mean much, just get a known point on the guage you have.
Get the cooling pressure tested, could be a pinhole in a weld, anything, I so hope its not the engine but if it is, once its fixed, you know that bit
is ok.
Luck dude, hows the bikes going?
kkk
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 04:36 PM |
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well now that i have tightened a few things up the car is taking about 2-3min to warm upto a constant temp when on the road (approx 90 - 100oC if the
guage is right) then sitting happily at that temp all the way to work (approx 1/2 hour trip up some nasty hills and corners, several start stop
sections, 60 - 80kph). sometomes runs a little rough for the fisrt few minutes (have to warm it up a little before headign off as my choke is hard to
operate), but generally seems to run at a pretty constant standard. have been thinking about ducting, wondered whether rather then directing air to
the radiator, i should be directing it out the rear hatch/stopping air slipping around it?
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pete wood
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 05:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by baybuscamperkid
(approx 90 - 100oC if the guage is right)
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Find out what the standard running temp should be. Or, find out what temp the thermostat opens at. Should be printed on the side of the box.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by baybuscamperkid
have been thinking about ducting, wondered whether rather then directing air to the radiator, i should be directing it out the rear hatch/stopping air
slipping around it?
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Figure out where it's going first, then you'll know where to get the air from and where to send it to.
BTW, why not think about putting the rad under the car like Custom offroad does? Will the rad fit between the chassis rails?
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phatrat
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| posted on May 17th, 2005 at 08:40 PM |
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baybuscamperkid ....I see no problem with your set-up. It has been a tried and tested method. I hope your running coolant, not water due to its higher
boiling point and correct thermostat and radiator cap.
I would agree with andy on rpm's. I would consider larger rims and tires.
Good work:thumb
ps: Ron, your a nutter:P
[Edited on 17/5/2005 by phat rat]
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 18th, 2005 at 02:50 PM |
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will see how rpm's go (i think i have found the wire for the tacho), once i know exactly what it's doing rev wise and talk to the subi guys see what
sort of revvs they're using in the wagons i will have a think about things. (i am running 195/75 14s)
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urban_myth
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| posted on May 19th, 2005 at 10:35 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1303Steve
Hi
Are you sucking air down the stock vents in the side of the Kombi and blowing it out the back of the car?
urban_myth if your dad was sucking air into the engine bay through the radiator and into the engine bay, where did the hot air go?
Steve
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He had the theory that when you were moving along there was a vacuum being created behind the van which would force air through the decklid hole. This
worked fine up to a certain speed because the air flow being created by the vacuum + thermo fans was greater than the air flow being sucked from
underneath the car into the engine bay so the hot air would be forced out through the bottom of the engine bay.
but when speed went above 80 or 90 km/h the air flow coming from underneath the car became greater than the air flow being sucked through the radiator
which resulted in no heat being able to escape so the engine temperature climbed.
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 20th, 2005 at 04:35 PM |
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urban myth, a simple scoop down the bottom should deal with that shouldnt it? so long as it doesnt pickup anything solid :duh
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 23rd, 2005 at 04:19 PM |
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damnit, since my defensive driving course every time i drive the car it seems to be gettign a little hotter then the last trip, doesnt feel or sound
any hotter, but guage indicates that it is heating up. time for some tinkering
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pete wood
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| posted on May 23rd, 2005 at 04:26 PM |
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My buggy works like this. In traffic, the fans come on a lot. However, once on the freeway, as far as I can figure out, the scoop puts more than
enough air in front of the rad for there not to be a problem and the fans don't come on much at all.
My temp guage reads a few degrees higher on the freeway, but the rad works so well that by the time the water gets to the thermo switch for the fan
(at the top rad inlet, the water has cooled enough to keep it down to about 85 degrees.
I prefer this setup. I don't mind the fans working a bit in traffic, as long as the car cools well on the freeway.
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baybuscamperkid
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| posted on May 23rd, 2005 at 04:43 PM |
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cool, my fans seem to be workign real well when stationary (knock the temp down pretty quick), still not sure about the rest though, as last week on
the way to work i wqas getting to about 100deg, this week 115 on the way there and 130 on the way back if the guage is right, something's going on.
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