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 nbturbo
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| posted on June 5th, 2005 at 05:52 PM |
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Type3 auto into an early Beetle
For those interested-I started this yesterday. Stripped everything from the pan yesterday afternoon and made a measuring jig to keep a check on the
alignment of the frame horns during the work.I made a solid bar to take the place of the original bellhousing mounting bracket to keep the horns
together and put braces up to the shock towers. Finished the IRS conversions today using some I cut from a Beetle pan.Will make up a jig next weekend
to keep the lower engine mounting holes of the bellhousing in the correct position in relation to the frame horns.Will need this to locate the auto in
the exact original position so the engine fits the engine bay correctly. I have taken plenty of pics so far and will put some up soon.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on June 5th, 2005 at 07:01 PM |
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I thought the Type 3 auto was too wide?
Pay your debts, CxxT
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OvalGlen
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| posted on June 19th, 2005 at 09:29 PM |
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I think you have to cut some of the horns and then re-inforce it.
Must dig out the pics of my Brother's race beetle.
His was done by CBB at Penrith.
Did you get a Good Box? My brother had a lot of trouble getting a good one, was usually the diff section that was
stuffed.
Also do you know how much power they can handle?
I thought on shop talk forums they said up to 150 H.P.
Regards,Glenn>
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nbturbo
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| posted on June 20th, 2005 at 10:25 PM |
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When I cut the horns to clear-there was not enough left to strengthen properly.Have cut them off completely and am using another set and will mount
them wider apart to allow trans to fit in and then weld them in and reinforce.Have just finished cutting a section from the torsion bar tube each side
of the centre anchor and welding in some flat plate-this allows the trans to come forward another 20mm to try and get the motor to fit the engine bay
better.The trans came from a car that was going-but intend to get it overhauled and get bigger clutch packs and a high stall convertor.From my
research I have found that the diff is the strongest part-supposedly bulletproof.The diff sits in it's own cast iron housing inside the aluminium
diff housing.Because I'm running a big Type4 motor-will need all the usual beef up stuff that gets done to all auto's.Hope you find the pics of your
brothers-always good to see what other people have done which is good for ideas.
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 vw54
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| posted on June 21st, 2005 at 07:19 AM |
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I thought the box was too long so you have to cut the torsion bar tubes etc
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barls
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| posted on June 21st, 2005 at 08:07 AM |
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id like to see some pics of this one please
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nbturbo
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| posted on June 29th, 2005 at 10:03 AM |
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To replace those lost-in the first one you will see where the original frame horn bolts went.
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seagull
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| posted on July 1st, 2005 at 01:43 AM |
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To let you know if you get the spacer in the clutch pack ground down you can fit 1 more clutch in, allowing you to hall more ass .You will also find
the nose on the converter will leak ( most do ) the trick is to fit two seals the cast iron section of the trans , when your there and the box is
apart , get hold of holden diff breathers ( or from a 4x4 ) and run these high up the fire wall out of the way from road grime , the rubber ones go
hard and seal up ,forming pressure in the housing and pissing oil out .I have been playing with an hydratrak from a HSV holden to fit the type three
auto diff .
seagull
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 1st, 2005 at 10:48 AM |
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Thanks Seagull-knew about the converter seals but not the breathers-will do that while it's apart.Sat it up between the horns last night,just a small
amount of clearancing now.Better fit between the hornsthough.I am going to cut the arse out of a wreck I have,leaving just the skeleton around the
engine bay seal area and and the bodywork above the centre torsion bar tube.This should be helpful in getting it all to fit and lined up.I have
ordered the spring shackle bushes like you use,the Valiant ones are too stiff and too big.I have a 1600TP that can be slipped in to line it all up.I
still can't get my head around why they made the output flanges sit 35mm higher on an auto compared to the manual box.Do you have any issues with
this for you conversions.It seems that in a standard Type3 Auto, that the CV joints would be always working at much greater angles than a manual box.
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 1st, 2005 at 05:33 PM |
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Seagull-this is what I mean-the bellhousing is in exactly the same position as a manual box and the back has to come down only a very small amount-see
how far the output flanges are above the frame horns.I have made my frame horns
about 30mm lower than standard-but even B4 I cut them-they were about 60mm above the horns.There is no way you have to flatten them when doing the IRS
conversion like when using a manual box. nn[ Edited on 1-7-2005 by nbturbo ]
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 3rd, 2005 at 07:01 PM |
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Only had this afternoon to work on it-didn't get too far.Cut the arse out of a wreck to check for clearance of the motor.Had to cut the inside bit of
the horns-the lip that was used to spot weld the 2 halves together.I cut 30mm each side and will weld back in some flat bar.The whole thing sits in
perfectly now,with the motor having an even gap around the seal lips.Because I cut the lips off the inside of the horns,it is real easy now to get the
trans in and out.This will be good if it has to come out once the body is back on.I will have to cut a small section from the body below the back seat
to clear the hump at the front of the trans.Should be able to make it a removeable panel,which will help to adjust the front band as well.
Will spend some nights this week to fab up the mounts.
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 07:45 PM |
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Another day and a half on the job.It's finally in position with all the mounts made and the gearchange cable fitted and clearanced.Have just got to
patch some holes I cut on the inside of the forks for some more clearance and around where the cable goes into the pan.Had to modify the bracket that
supports the cable at the trans to give the cable some clearance against the pan.Next weekend will only have to weld the patches and fit the
gearchange lever,and it will be all over.Need to run a 10mm and 8mm fuel pipe for the fuel injection,then it can be blasted and painted.Should have
the body back next weekend,so it's all finally coming together.nn[ Edited on 17-7-2005 by nbturbo ]
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 07:53 PM |
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Had to go back to using Valiant mounts so I could get them far enough forward to clear the the engine fan shroud.Will get some new mounts and tidy up
the brackets B4 painting.Used the Toyota spring shackle rubbers for the front one with a 12mm X 8.8 bolt.
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Flintstones
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| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 09:54 PM |
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Looking Good NB, Glad to see it's all come together well.
Cheers
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VWCOOL
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| posted on July 17th, 2005 at 10:02 PM |
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Yeah, I agree. Top work! Might consider an auto in front of a Sooby EJ20T if they are able to be toughened as good as what you say...
Pay your debts, CxxT
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vw54
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| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 10:18 AM |
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This is a GREAT project, great work. Will the drive plate of the Type 4 engine fit up to the Type 3 torque converter ????
Does the type 4 engine have a cut out below the drive plate so you can get access to the 3 bolts on the torque convertor ???
Will u use the stock Type 3 axles are they longe enough
just posing some questions in case you hadnt thought about some of the issues but it looks like your solving them
more pics please
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 18th, 2005 at 05:46 PM |
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Yeah Dave the PCD is the same for the 3 mounting bolts.I haven't put the 2 together yet,but the auto has a cut out at the bottom to get at the
bolts,and if there isn't enough room there,can use the hole in the crankcase above the top bellhousing bolt.Checked the Type3 drive shafts and look
good for fitting.I have an auto and drive shafts from a Kombi as well,so may even be able to use these shafts and CV's.For anybody contemplating an
auto conversion into a Beetle and wanting to keep the engine in the original location-think long and hard.It's been a real head fxxk trying to
squeeze it all in.If you were doing a buggy or Baja and could have the motor a few inches further back,then it would be fairly straight forward,but
still heavy going.If you could fab up a cage and get rid of the frame horns all together,even easier.
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 26th, 2005 at 02:56 PM |
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Not much progress-visitors on the week end.Got into it last night again.Have completely finished the left hand side,with a relief cut into it where
the cable goes into the pan.Have drilled a big enough hole so that the cable will not hit under hard accelleration(will use a big blanking grommet
with hole cut in it) Where I cut the side out of the frame horns,I have welded in gussets out of 3mm plate,B4 closing them up.Ended up cutting the
original fuel and heater cable tubes off completely.Will be making a heater system using electric fans,and using 2 new bigger fuel lines anyhow.nn[Edited on 26-7-2005 by nbturbo ]
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vw54
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 07:44 AM |
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have you looked at shorting or if you have to shorten the trailing or swing arms as well
yes it would be easier to fit into a buggy great work making it fit a bug
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vw54
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 07:46 AM |
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have you looked at shorting or if you have to shorten the trailing or swing arms as well
yes it would be easier to fit into a buggy great work making it fit a bug
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 27th, 2005 at 11:10 PM |
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No Dave-at this stage I think all the type3 stuff fits-don't have to shorten anything.Will pull all the torsion bars,spring plates and trailing arms
from the pan I have already converted and restored(it is all Type3 stuff) will just have to swap the drive shafts for the auto ones.This pic is of the
other frame horn that I have just finished and also ground down all welds and polished.
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nbturbo
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| posted on July 31st, 2005 at 08:21 PM |
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Finished at last at the back end-welded up the holes where the heater cable tubes came from,welded a couple more gussets where the frame horns attach
to the torsion bar tubes and made and welded the small brackets that hold the brake pipe unions to the pan.Cut all the unused pipes from in the
tunnel-( had to cut an access hole in the pan near the back-will weld it back after I have put the new fuel lines in)2 heater tubes,original fuel line
and the clutch cable tube. Fitted the gear change lever and the covers.Will have to fab up something to go up under the gear lever cover to glue the
carpet to.Gear change is all in and adjusted-works OK.
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nbturbo
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| posted on August 2nd, 2005 at 01:57 PM |
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Fitted up the Type3 pedal assembly last night.The 2 holes that attach it to the floor just by the throttle pedal were stripped,so had to weld them up
and rethread them-a simple job that took ages.Cut the original battery hold down bracket of and fabbed up a new one to hold the battery like modern
cars-using the lugs around the base of the battery.Found the clamp in a 73 Bug I wrecked recently-they all must use this set up.Run my first fuel line
thru the tunnel(8mm one first) and bought it thru the original hole at the front and alongside the throttle tube at the rear.Put some thick heat
shrink on where it goes under the pedal shaft.I silver soldered it to the hand brake tube where it goes past the access hole I cut. Have put the 10mm
one on the opposite side at the rear, right where I can mount the high pressure FI pump.
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pete wood
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 05:31 PM |
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I have to say, that is quite impressive.nn[ Edited on 3-8-2005 by pete wood ]
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nbturbo
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 09:33 PM |
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Thanks Pete-finished the fuel lines and mounted the FI pump alongside the trans.Will shorten both fuel lines and flare the ends when I pull the auto
out for the last time this weekend-pan is going in Monday for a blast and paint.Silver soldered the 10mm supply line to the hand brake lines inside
the tunnel and then welded the hole up.Have bought the 10mm pipe out the side of the frame at the front and made up an aluminium bracket to stop it
flexing.My low pressure feed pump is mounted on the left hand side of the front beam and will feed into the 10mm pipe. The 8mm pipe coming out the
original hole is for the fuel return.
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nbturbo
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 09:37 PM |
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One after I welded up the hole and one of the auto from underneath- it doesn't hang down below the pan-just that the rear cross brace is a little
lower-but still plenty of ground clearance.
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 10:22 PM |
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very neat job - I've often wondered how much work is involved in doing this and now I know.... its shitloads
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68AutoBug
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 posted on August 3rd, 2005 at 10:40 PM |
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Great pics and story....
Have spoken to 2 people who have type 3 autos in Beetles in the USA - one said it was bloody hard, the other one [who had a metal worker welder do thejob] said it was easy..???
Its too bloody hard for this black duck....
Have You thought about a removeable rear valance ?
It makes pulling the engine so easy... You can take the engine out with all wheels sitting on the ground....
Best of Luck
Lee Noonan 68AutoBug
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Doug Sweetman
very neat job - I've often wondered how much work is involved in doing this and now I know.... its shitloads
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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nbturbo
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| posted on August 4th, 2005 at 10:50 AM |
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Lee, I couldn't find any body who had done it B4 I started this to have a chat.B4 my computer crashed,I used to visit a site about auto stick
Bugs,that you also used to visit,but can't remember it's name.Do you still go there? Is that where you found the 2 blokes you mentioned? Yes,thought
about the removeable rear panel-about a month after I had just finished welding in the new one,which I really welded in-didn't expect it to ever have
to come out again.With the auto,I reckon I can remove the rear brace,and it will swing down real low pivoting on the front mount,which will aid in
getting the motor hooked up easier,then just jack the whole lot up to fit the rear brace.
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seagull
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| posted on August 8th, 2005 at 01:55 AM |
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a subaru fitment made easy
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Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
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