| [ Total Views: 1249 | Total Replies: 15 | Thread Id: 4597 ] |
|
|
 karmannghia60
Custom Title Time!
Karmann Ghia Sucker
Posts: 1459
Threads: 388
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 11:52 AM |
|
|
Are 40mm kadrons too small for a 1916?
It will be used as daily driver (mainly city driving).
Cheers
Raf
|
|
|
 Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 12:22 PM |
|
|
No - ish
out of the box i think the answer is yes.
If you go to
http://www.lowbugget.com/
AJ has some update kits.
I think ovalglen is running a 1916 with a single pict.
You may find it just runs out of oomph at like 4000 revs
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
whatnow
A.k.a.: Henry
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1000
Threads: 54
Registered: January 11th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: armidale, northern tablelands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: 14's are the new earlies.
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 12:36 PM |
|
|
i think it all depend on your valve size, cam (and intended rev range), etc.
i think with standard valve heads and a smaller cam (hence lower rev's) they should be ok.
i think you might need to go up in the main jet size. i was told (on my mild 1776) to go from standard 130 mains (i think) to 135 mains. i was told
this size was ok for 1916's (well pobjoy baseline 1916)(it was stan who suggested the jet size to use for my engine).
as for reving on my motor, i saw the needle well past 90mph... ahhhh ...well more than once 
if someone wants to work out the revs it was with a standard late 6V gearbox and 165's with the needle past the first light (it was the oil light
on my car) with 145 front tyres.
[Edited on 21-3-2003 by whatnow]
|
|
|
56astro
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1772
Threads: 74
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: The Nambucca
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Pobjoy Powered with twin ignition & soon to be EFI'd
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 01:38 PM |
|
|
NO THEY ARE NOT TOO SMALL
Twin Kads on a 1916 is the setup Stan Pobjoy uses for his stage I engine.
If you're not sure of anything, or just want a really long chat, give him a call.
02 6650 9616
I think you'll find that straight out of the box they used to bolt straight up to a 1600 without re-jetting. But since the fuel quality and
composition changes you do need to spend some time to set them up properly. Guys like AJ Sims and Stan Pobjoy have done a lifetime of R&D. Ask and
you will find out what you need to know.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa |
|
|
kombi_kid
Super Moderator
Good Kid too many projects
Posts: 124
Threads: 341
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: brisvegas
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 04:23 PM |
|
|
hey
thats right steve u set them straight!!!!
kads are "the best" carby around if u dont wont to after every drive tune ur carbs so it runs at optimal performance!!!!
my bros pobjoy runs kads and they pull bloody great!! never any shortage of power!!!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 08:14 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by kombi_kid
hey
thats right steve u set them straight!!!!
kads are "the best" carby around
|
Rhys, Rhys, Rhys,
I really dont wanna come up there and box you round the ears BUT................
Kads are OK. Period. End. FULL STOP.
They have no where near the benefits of Dels or IDF's. Twin 2BBLs are much better, SOUND better AND look better Period. End. FULL STOP.
Kads are fine for people who WANT to have IDFs but.................................
ok -
i have a heat shield and i am in my bunker!
Let the flames begin!
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
lugnuts
A.k.a.: Mike
Custom Title Time!
Posts: 1070
Threads: 88
Registered: August 28th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney,Castle Hill
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: semi-retiring
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 08:28 PM |
|
|
I agree unequivocally,or so ive heard.:thumb |
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12780
Threads: 734
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 08:45 PM |
|
|
he he he he
Thank you Lugnuts!
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Mr Hoodjacks
Casual Dubber
Posts: 27
Threads: 2
Registered: February 27th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: I'm cool..
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 09:07 PM |
|
|
Yeah, Kads are fine on a 1916, especially for a daily driver. BUT make sure you get the jetting attended to - I think 140s are required for a 1916.
I've had mine for so long, I can't remember! Ask around: Who did the engine? What cam?
|
|
|
Mr Hoodjacks
Casual Dubber
Posts: 27
Threads: 2
Registered: February 27th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: I'm cool..
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 09:13 PM |
|
|
Oh, and you need to adjust the accelerator pump stroke, too. This must be done with tye carbs off the car. It's very simple - a small plastic
jobbie must be screwed along a thread so that it allows the pump to move a certain distance, therefore activate the pump to supply a squirt of fuel to
the engine. Moving the little jobbie provides different volumes of 'squirt' depending on engine capacity. Oh, and sorry, I can't
remember those dimensions, either...
|
|
|
kombi_kid
Super Moderator
Good Kid too many projects
Posts: 124
Threads: 341
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: brisvegas
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 09:26 PM |
|
|
barry
they are a nice simple carb and with minor jet alteration can go as good as some webers etc
dont wont to start an argument but can someone just confirm that has webers etc how many toimes they have to adjust them to run full performance out
of them???
thats why they suck!!!
i must admit they do sound way better and do like the juice u feed them!
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd
|
|
|
70AutoStik
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 730
Threads: 18
Registered: August 30th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Dandenong. Victoria
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 21st, 2003 at 09:55 PM |
|
|
I'll agree that Kads are a simple carb, that's what makes them so easy to use - a good set can be thrown onto a stock engine for a nice lift
in performance. The reason Webers are so much harder to set up is that they are a far more sophisticated carb - but, once you've got it right,
they'll outperform the Kads every step of the way. The problem in Oz is finding the jets and someone who can jet them for you... - learn how to
do it yourself! It might take a few weekends once you've learnt what you're doing - but what fun weekends they'll be!!!
In the old days, many used to say it was impossible to get a Holley Bugspray to work properly on a VW; but I evetually got mine running fantastic!
The longest part of the process (even longer than learning how to jet my own carbs) was finding the jets - most "Holley experts" I talked to
didn't even seem to know what a jet was!
Once you know how to set them up, any carb can run on any engine. The best carb will, of course be of an appropriate throttle and venturi size
(beware, there are limits to the useful ratio of venturi to throttle size if you want to do anything but peak revs.) There is no easy answer to this
as cam, exhaust and heads can affect what the ideal size is. Some have tried to come up with formulae, but most engine-builders still rely most on
"suck it and see."
As experts like Pobjoy and (Gene) Berg found: - stock(ish) Kads can be really nice on a street engine up to about 1916, jetting will probably still be
necessary on any modified engine to achieve peak performance (and is also necessary on some cheap kits.)
|
|
|
vwrallycar
A.k.a.: Andrew Rankin
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 721
Threads: 83
Registered: September 2nd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Rockhampton, Queensland
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Black
|
| posted on March 24th, 2003 at 09:19 PM |
|
|
this is easy.
if u have a big cam and big valved heads the kadrons seriously limit perfomance.
for your street motor they will be fine
|
|
|
Doug Sweetman
Veteran Volks Folk
Nil Bastardo Carborundum
Posts: 2128
Threads: 58
Registered: September 23rd, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Perth, W.A
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: sweeeeet
|
| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 09:57 AM |
|
|
As with everything, if you modify it enough, it can suit just about every application - see AJ simms web site, 176hp with twin kadrons...... Albeit
they are massively modified, but still the fact is they flow enough air and juice to make those numbers.....
If you do get some, try and get the new kits with alumium manifolds, the old ones have steel manifolds with very little scope for ported heads, or
match porting either for that matter. Secondly, if you do get the ally ones, make sure the gasket faces are flat (same as with any manifold really) as
curvature can cause air leaks.
[Edited on 24-3-2003 by Doug Sweetman]
|
|
|
70AutoStik
Insano Dub Head
Posts: 730
Threads: 18
Registered: August 30th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Dandenong. Victoria
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 09:00 PM |
|
|
Yeah, AJ Simms has done some pretty amazing stuff - http://lowbugget.com/main_page.html
But, for street use, we must remember the Venturi is there for a reason - it increases air velocity (hence vacuum at the nozzle) in order to make the
carb work at a greater range of rpm (without it the engine would only run well at max RPM and power.) For what AJ's mods would cost shipped down
under, I think it would be wiser to invest in a larger set of carbs when you're engine reaches the limit of Kads. It is true Kads will run out
pretty quick with strokers and radical cams - but I meant in no way to diss them within their capabilities.
|
|
|
Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Brisbane
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Content
|
| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 09:45 PM |
|
|
you can run a stock carb on a 1915 if you want to.
Kadrons will be fine, but the power will start dropping off earlier in the RPM range than if you have Webers (but only providing your heads/cam will
flow enough to use the extra capacity of the webers).
Rhys, don't listen to what people tell you, most of them are wankers. Find out for yourself. The whole "you need to tune webers all the
time" saying is crap that people that can't afford webers say to make themselves feel better about not having webers.
Webers were used on many exotic standard cars, if they magically went out of tune they wouldn't have been used.
I used to take my car offroad all the time, in horribly dusty conditions, and my webers didn't fall out of adjustment. I rarely touched mine. In
fact there was no difference in the frequency I adjusted my webers or my kadrons.
They is no reason for a carb to go out of tune. In fact it is impossible. You can however have jets block due to poor air/fuel filters, this does
happen more easily on webers because the idle jets are so small. Just use a decent fuel and air filter. The other thing that can happen is the cheap
linkage sold with a lot of webers can flex and wear when abused. This is a linkage problem and not a weber problem. Just use a decent linkage.
Webers have the potential to make twice as much power as kadrons, for the simple reason that they are twice as big and therefore flow twice as much.
However you will only see that extra power if your engine can also flow as much air as the webers, or at least more air than the kadrons.
I think kadrons are excellent value for money, but no match for webers for outright power.
|
|
|
Quickbug
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 363
Threads: 16
Registered: September 24th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Roselands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Plucked...
|
| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 10:42 AM |
|
|
Different horses for different courses.
I have a big cam in my 1916cc, but standard heads.
I have standard Kads, with no changes to the jets.
This is a great daily driver.
But as always the case i want more power :P
|
|
|
karmannghia60
Custom Title Time!
Karmann Ghia Sucker
Posts: 1459
Threads: 388
Registered: August 27th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Melbourne
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 01:33 PM |
|
|
James, I am asking because I want to use my Kads on the 1916 I bought off you. What was on it before and how did it run?
Raf
|
|
|
Quickbug
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 363
Threads: 16
Registered: September 24th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Roselands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Plucked...
|
| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 01:59 PM |
|
|
That engine had bigger carbs 40mm idas or idfs i think.
Was no quicker than my 1916cc with twin Kads.
You will find the heads and cam will make it pretty much pointless running Webbers or Delortos, and unless u can pick up some cheap, cheap ones i
would stick with Kads.
Carbies are getting stupidly expensive.
The Kads will run 99% as well on that engine as any other carb.
If you dont intend on upgrading the heads, or working them, definately stick with the Kads Raf.
|
|
|
Quickbug
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 363
Threads: 16
Registered: September 24th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Roselands NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Plucked...
|
| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 02:02 PM |
|
|
Oh - and the Kads are a better (more progressive) carb for daily driving.
|
|
|
.JPG "Avatar")
