| [ Total Views: 3235 | Total Replies: 40 | Thread Id: 46612 ] |
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 Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on December 3rd, 2005 at 03:31 PM |
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where to mount donalson air cleaner
ive got a donalson to go on my baja.
which side do you normally mount it on the guard? passenger or drivers side?
how does it affect visibility?
Nick
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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11CAB
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| posted on December 3rd, 2005 at 06:19 PM |
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I had mine mounted on the left, no probs with visibility.
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11CAB
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| posted on December 3rd, 2005 at 06:20 PM |
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And showing the 2inch exhaust pipe I got bent up for between the donaldson and carby
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subibaja
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| posted on December 3rd, 2005 at 09:21 PM |
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usually really good mounted on the inside of your wheelie bin
hhehehhehehehehe
my opinion they are restrictive
get a foam covered filter
remember they where made for tractors not high reving engines
terry
anyone who says it's bad to put subaru motors in vw's.....
hasnt got a clue about smoooooooooth
terry
brisbane
0403252522
you know who i am
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Baja Wes
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| posted on December 3rd, 2005 at 11:30 PM |
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I agree with Terry. I wouldn't use it. My car came with one, and it was much better once removed.
Maybe later I will explain why they aren't worth using, but don't have time at the moment...
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on December 3rd, 2005 at 11:45 PM |
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hmmm ok.
im currently running a round ram flo air cleaner.
would u say that this is better? should i look at a unifilter or similar instead of the donaldson?
i really just want it for better air cleaning and so no water can get in thru foam in heavy rain.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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WABaja
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 01:27 AM |
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.
Mount it on a bracket Welded to the rear cage/barwork, make sure it's a good solid mount and is out of the way of anything you might encounter such
as a tree that's growing over a track that you happen to be travelling down at high speed...
Also (and this is Very Important), be sure to mount it "ABOVE THE TOP LINE OF THE TYRE to ensure it has the best chance of breathing and try to put
it away from the body, so that it can utilise some of the clean air flowing past the car...
I wouldn't mount one on a fiberglass guard as they are not really strong enough to sustain constant flexing of their own weight, let alone the weight
of a Donaldson added to it..
They are one of, if not The Best air filter for buggy's, baja's and I know this because I have tried an original oil bath, and a foam filter and
after market filters which have so far be very helpful in keeping my car running, as they have all led to PREMATURE Replacement of the ENGINE being
required....!!!! Unlike the Donaldson, which has kept the engine internals in very good condition so far..
I have Seen foam filters sucked into carby's and have towed VW's that have had their motors stopped dead from that...!!!
Remember that "A chain is only as strong as its weakest link", so be sure to use good quaility conections and clamps right through. Mine uses an air
induction hose off a late model Polo to run the filtered air from the cleaner to the carby, so remember to factor in what hose you are going to use,
Prior to actually mounting the unit, as excesive bends or joins in that pipe/tube could lead to air or dust getting in post filter..
It might be worth checking with your state laws regarding mounting after market air cleaners in case they have something to say on which side you fit
it to, but all of the ones I have seen (in WA) have been fitted to the Left hand side..
The location of the filter on MY car has Zero effect on my visability from the drivers seat, however I do not run side mirrors and a left hand side
wing mirror might have a slightly obscured view of something Directly Behind the car at very close range...
subibaja.. Yes they were originally made for tractors and farm equipment,( ie: Vehicles that are required to perform in some of the dustiest working
conditions) and since you are so fond of Tractors you would, no doubt know that The Lamborghini Company started making Tractors from left over War
surplus parts.. Now, by Your rationale this would mean therefore, that a 2005 Lamborghini Murciélago R-GT
Would drive and operate Just Like a 1945 Ferruccio Lamborghini Trattore.....
http://i.domaindlx.com/fnnajjar/FNTARGET5.HTML
http://www.lambocars.com/archive/history.htm
http://www.donaldson.com/en/about/information/history.html
:jesus
:pukeAny room in that bin of yours for you......??????
.
I hate to admit it, but man, I think you're right....
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WABaja
A.k.a.: Daniel
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 01:34 AM |
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ps: Worth noting that the negative replies on this subject come from guys who Do Not advocate running Volkswagen powered Volkswagens.....
I hate to admit it, but man, I think you're right....
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subibaja
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 08:55 PM |
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nice comments dick!
the negitive comments come from expirience
they where built for tracktors that rev at a constant rev not up and down
and i,ll bet both your nuts that the lambo pictured
DOES NOT have or EVA DID have a donaldson aircleaner
and i cant seem to find where i wrote they did
I dont advocate vw power cause its simply shit
no other reason
terry
oh this is for wabaja no one else
[ Edited on 4-12-2005 by subibaja ]
[ Edited on 4-12-2005 by Buggy Brad ]
anyone who says it's bad to put subaru motors in vw's.....
hasnt got a clue about smoooooooooth
terry
brisbane
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you know who i am
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DubCrazy
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 09:01 PM |
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Had mine on the left, cant say it was any better/worse than a good foam filter. i Personaly think they are ugly as all hell so i won't be using then
again...
steff.................
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Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!
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Caroneten
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 09:03 PM |
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Get a K & N best flowing filter and if looked after you get a bloody long time out of then. Mine has done anbout fifty thousand and still runs
awesome when dirty
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 09:55 PM |
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chill guys. geeze.
thanks for the info everyone. not sure whether ill run it or not.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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Brad
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 10:27 PM |
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mmmm interesting thread .. here is my opinion ..
Donaldson air cleaners and other cylindrical designed air cleaners are designed to have constant flow of air pulling through them to allow the dust
particles to be flung outwards and thus reduce the amount that actually gets to the air filter element which is similar to most other dry air cleaners
anyway. So in essence Subi Baja is correct in relation to the Pre Filter or Cyclic Dust bowl that most donaldsons come with, they don not work
effectively on VW’s . So don’t bother with them, maybe add an air ram.
Yes they are usually restrictive but that is more due to the way in which people like to mount them with great big long pipe which is usually
internally ribbed which creates even more issues with flow.
That being said I like them on off road vehicles which aren’t running huge engines. Why ?? because they are easy to setup and seal and this means
they will filter better than a badly setup filter any day of the week.
The pick of filters in my opinion is either the K & N or Unifilter IF properly serviced and run with a pre filter when used in dusty conditions. BUT
they must be serviced, something that not many people do, so they often add to engine failure due to poor performance..
If you want a low maintenance and effective filter for a stockish low air flow demand VW engine then a correctly installed Donaldson is by far the
best. Get it as close as possible to your carbi and run smooth internal hose if possible. If not then go with the biggest hose you can get.
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 10:34 PM |
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thanks for the info brad.
coincidently i got the ram flo air cleaner im running currently from your little garage sale at COR.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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WABaja
A.k.a.: Daniel
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 10:54 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by subibaja
nice comments dick!
the negitive comments come from expirience
they where built for tracktors that rev at a constant rev not up and down
and i,ll bet both your nuts that the lambo pictured
DOES NOT have or EVA DID have a donaldson aircleaner
and i cant seem to find where i wrote they did
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You didn't say Lamborghini's use Donaldsons "Dick"...
Neither did I....
What you did say was something that was made for a tractor won't work for a car.. I and many other Baja, Buggy, Landcruiser, Landrover, Hilux and
Patrol owners, would probably beg to differ...
My point is, that by "Your own logic", a company that started off making tractors, but now also makes cars, must therefore make cars that drive like
tractors as you can't have both...
Your negitive comments come from expirience...
My Posative comments come from experience...
Nick's original question was," ive got a donalson to go on my baja.
which side do you normally mount it on the guard? passenger or drivers side?
how does it affect visibility?"
Perhaps you just read it wrong.........????:kiss
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Desert Moose
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| posted on December 4th, 2005 at 11:40 PM |
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I don't want to get into a mud-slinging match, because every body thinks what they run is best.
The only thing I will say is that I run a K&N with a pre cleaner and Under NO circumstances would I ever run a foam product in off road. As a racer we
get the chance to see first hand what works and what doesn't within hours, even with constant servicing of a foam filter it will let dust in. Even a
paper filter will work better than a foam filter till it clogs. On top off this any flow test will show that a foam filter size for size with a paper
filter, the foam will lose time and time again. The K&N filter would be the best only because it would have the best flow of any reusable oil based
filter. As for a centrifugal Cyclone type filter, these have been used in Off Road racing on VW engines for years because they give good filtration
and can be fitted with a K&N filter and pre cleaner if need. Personally I would use an alloy UMP over a Steel Donaldson but the cost of the UMP over a
Donaldson is huge.
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Boozer
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| posted on December 5th, 2005 at 12:23 PM |
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nice discussion here guys.:thumb I prefer the donalsons to other types of filters out there for all the reason previously mentioned. But, when i went
and bought mine from a proper dealer i got it in a PVC like plastic and they matched it specifically to the size and type (no. of cylinders, type of
fuel) of engine that it was to be used on. And i've never had a problem. I ran my old engine with a Ramflow for a couple months when i broke my
mounts for the donaldson and didn't notice any difference. Just thoughts...
THe MC Bat Commander's motto: "Never do now, what you could do for 24 hours straight, all night, the night before."
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Baja Wes
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| posted on December 5th, 2005 at 03:18 PM |
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correct, this is a thread about donaldson air cleaners, specifically where to mount it.
Which air filter for buggy / offroad has been covered here;
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=17053&page=1#pid124137
Yes donaldsons are very ugly. They will also cause stress cracking in your fiberglass guard if mounted their for a long time.
I ran a donalson for years on an 1835 and a 1776 in my Baja, so although I now run a watercooled motor I do have personal experience with the
donaldson on an air-cooled motor.
Using a long hose on the donaldson will promote flat spots down low / off idle. I was told this by a VW shop but initally didn't believe them. When I
changed to a different air filter my flat spots magically went away, so the VW shop was right.
The pre-filter on top of the donaldson is designed to work through centrifugal force throwing the dust outwards letting it settle in the bowl. This
only works if your engine is sitting on constant rpms (like a tractor, caterpillar, or desert race car in a long distance race). In a normal offroad
vw you won't sit at constant rpm and the bowl won't work properly. The bowl in my donaldson never had anything substantial in it.
This is why Brad said to remove this part and just stick a ram air catcher on the donaldson instead of the bowl. But of course if you do this it
isn't really a donaldson anymore. It's simply an air filter with a restrictive cover.
And before you say it's not restrictive, one of the guys in the club has an 1835 with twin webers, and had twin donaldsons on it. When he had it dyno
tested the operator told him the donaldsons were crap, and when they disconnected them he got another 5 or so HP.
The best air filter is a K&N or equivalent. Autobarn sell K&N style filters that seem to be pretty similar quality for ~$25. Just mount it in a
sensible location where it won't get wet. Because it's oiled it will be reasonably waterproof anyway.
Then when your going to the beach just make a foam sock outer for the K&N. Make it out of 5mm foam from clarks rubber and oil it. It will work
fine.
Ram flow air filters really suck. They don't seal well between the foam and the mounting plate, and they don't seal well to the top of the carb.
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on December 5th, 2005 at 03:25 PM |
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can i get a K + N style filter that will fit the 50 mm throat of the 30 pict 2 carb? and not foul on the choke housing?
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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helterskelter400
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| posted on December 5th, 2005 at 04:21 PM |
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i got a unifilter and a K&N and alternate between the two. so i always have a clean one ready to go. both have the outer foam. as said above, mount it
somewhere out of the way so its sucking cleanish air and will stay dry. i have just tucked mine inside the canopy for the time being as when it was
sitting on top of the carb i'd have to clean it after every drive.
goto http://www.uniflow.com.au and check http://www.uniflow.com.au/procomp2.asp which is what ive got. the K&N is
exactly the same size and shape but different construction.
:thumb
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Baja Wes
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| posted on December 5th, 2005 at 05:57 PM |
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| Quote: | can i get a K + N
style filter that will fit the 50 mm throat of the 30 pict 2 carb? and not foul on the choke housing?
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Yes, you shouldn't have any problem. The K&N rubber neck is quite thin and should fit in the gap. If it doesn't then just grind it thinner in the
one section until it does fit.
It's easy to make a good intake. I made mine from rubber hump connectors from QLD diesel spares and 3" exhaust pipe cut to shape (yes I know it's
not a vw motor, but it's an example of how you can put your air filter in a high and safe place no matter where the throttle body / carb is. You can
even make the intake ducting with PVC pipe).
http://www.qlddieselspares.com.au/air%20inlets/air%20inlets%20index.htm
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ancientbugger
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| posted on December 5th, 2005 at 06:52 PM |
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This is all very interesting and I can only speak from experience, my priority is to keep my engine running as long as possible and I run a Donaldson.
On my first engine in the buggy it came with a pancake style filter but when the engine bagan to smoke a strip down revealed the top of the pistons
had a serated edge with all the sand that had got past the air filter. I then bought a K&N from COR complete with the oil for it but on the buggy it
sat under the back lip and was susceptible to sand and stuff flying up underneath so I ended up having to clean it more often than I wished (I am a
lazy bastard at the best of times). The Donaldson I picked up years ago at a VW show at Mt Gravatt and fitted that on the cage above and behind the
engine as per the avatar so that it wouldn't be in the way of anything being thrown up from the front wheels as it would be -in my reckonig anyway-
if it was on the rear wing plus I didn't want to go drilling holes in the bodywork anyway. I see your point Wes about the corrugated hoses but as I
said my priority is to keep sand and shit out of the engine, losing a few HP is not half as bad as trying to explain to my wife why I want a
bigger/faster engine and besides if I can keep this engine going just long enough till the kids leave home I can worry about the HP then. I think
it's down to what your priorities are, if you're after power and don't mind cleaning itgo for a K&N but surely a Donaldson would keep out more crap
as it is a 2 stage filter and putting on the back rather than on the wing would be the way to go. By the way if anyone here has seen a Haflinger they
have a VW style 2 cylinder engine at the back but run a Donaldson style filter mounted right up on the front of the vehicle and a bloody long pipe to
connect them!
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on December 5th, 2005 at 09:51 PM |
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ive look at the KnN website and found a couple of filters that could work.
did u use a pre cleaner sock on your knN filter barry?
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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dak002
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| posted on December 5th, 2005 at 10:36 PM |
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And here's some more thoughts/experience re Donaldson.
I spent 12 years in central NSW, near Nyngan, farming 2000 acres of wheat, and getting about in a 1800 Kombi.
All our tractors were fitted with a donaldson, and they worked, with regular maintenance. We never had to do any work to motors due to dust
inhalation.
I got concerned about dusting the kombi motor, so I fitted that with a donaldson as well, and again no problems. And if you know that red soil then
you know how serious the dust is out there.
Now the real point.
It doesn't really matter where you put any air cleaner, what matters is where it sucks air from. And if you look at later model tractors the intake
is usually mounted higher up out of the dust. The kombi's kit came with a flexible hose, and the end was fitted higher up inside near the side vent,
providing clean and cool air to the filter.
That's my 2 cents worth, but today for everybody, it's free, and you're welcome.
rossko
There's nothing like the wind on your head, where your hair used to be.....................
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Baja Wes
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| posted on December 6th, 2005 at 09:48 AM |
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The last few points are the exact reasons why Brad thinks they're ok, because any idiot can put one on (no offense to anyone) and it will keep the
dust out.
Technically they are 2 stage, but the first stage doesn't do anything on a VW that doesn't sit at constant rpm. This is why Brad recommended
swapping the first stage with a ram air, something like this;
So what you are left with is a paper element filter in a weather proof enclosure. The only good point of that is that it is a weather proof
enclosure.
My point is why not start with a good air filter like a K&N, and make a simple shield / enclosure for it. It will breathe a lot better than the
donaldson, make more HP, filter out more dust, and give better fuel economy. Brad had a good set-up on his last buggy where he had the K&N's mounted
up on top of the buggy body, with short pipes running down to the carbs.
I am not arguing a donaldson isn't better than the crap foam sandwich or ram flow filters. They are junk. A donaldson also won't ensure you engine
lasts forever. My 1835 ran a donaldson it's whole life and it's ring and cylinders were totally stuffed when I pulled it down.
Sure, if you want a quick fix the donaldson will do the job.
But if you are serious about the car you can do a lot better than the donaldson.
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pete wood
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| posted on December 6th, 2005 at 10:42 AM |
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I've had a Unifilter (with an outer sleave as well) on my buggy since it's been finished and most of time it's good. In fact so good that on
stockton the sand didn't really make it through the outer sleeve to the main filter element. However, it does suffer in a couple of situations and
unfortunately they are kind of critical ones. For instance. At both motorkhanas I've been it it came home totally clogged. Added to this, a decent
bit of rain will soak the filter and choke the motor til it dies for an instant.
Now part of the problem with the rain buso is that it's mounted up on the guard in the cool air, and consenquently rain, stream. But even still. I am
seriously contemplating going to a Donaldson for that reason alone. I realise I might loose some of the cool intake noise, but I figure a better
filter is more important than a few extra horses and a drowned motor. Also, I have only cleaned the outer sleave four or five times and it's starting
to fall apart already around the seams.
Just me 2 cents worth of experience.
here's a pic, you can see the red Unifilter on top of the guard.
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
The Baja Rejuvenation Begins
Posts: 4936
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| posted on December 6th, 2005 at 11:44 AM |
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how much does one pay for a k&n pod stlye filter? i mean the real brand not a copy.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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helterskelter400
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on December 6th, 2005 at 12:51 PM |
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pete, you answered your own probs there. no filter, uni, k&n, donaldson, belongs out in the open air when youre cutting up or in the rain. my slack
answer was to poke my filter in the canopy. instant dry and massivly less dust, saves cleaning it 50 fold.
btw, if the uni is falling apart, what have you been using to wash it. dont use peterol and dont wring the filter. i do a dirty and a clean kero rinse
then a hot soapy water rinse then a warm water rinse and air dry (the other filter goes onn while this one drys and is reoiled with high qual dirt
bike air filter oil).
the perfect answer for me is to make an airbox (that can be attached "anywhere") for the uni/k&n and duct it into my "rear seat" area. this is
exactly what a friend has done wiht his kombi 2l twin kadron manx and uses a custom airbox using a late commodoe cartridge filter, ducted to his
closed sotrage box that is the "rear seat" area. he only has to worry about his spare jumper getting sucked up against the louveres. haha
another freind has a custom airbox on his baja that uses a 186 torana filter (you can get oiled unis for these too if you want) that is ducted inside
the car throug twin grilled intakes just under the rear window.
all you need to do is find someone who can fold and weld thin alli.
i like the donadson idea but i agree its design is such that it looks to be best set for constant draw. also thay are big and cumbersome and having
something hanging off a guard, stressing it and being threatened by every branch/tree you squeese by (sideways at speed) and if its out on the guard
and its still out there in the dirty air.
:thumb
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helterskelter400
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on December 6th, 2005 at 12:53 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Anthiron
how much does one pay for a k&n pod stlye filter? i mean the real brand not a copy.
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mine years ago on egay $30, looked unused but prob was.
:thumb
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
The Baja Rejuvenation Begins
Posts: 4936
Threads: 310
Registered: October 1st, 2003
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Location: Buderim QLD
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Hell hath no fury like a womans scorn for sega.
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| posted on December 6th, 2005 at 01:27 PM |
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im thinking maybe either of these 2
probobly the latter.
and run a sock. what do u think?
[ Edited on 6-12-2005 by Anthiron ]
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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