| [ Total Views: 906 | Total Replies: 21 | Thread Id: 4697 ] |
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 Quickbug
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 posted on March 25th, 2003 at 09:47 PM |
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Making 1916cc into 2litres and larger
Ok so i have a 1916cc.
Its got the standard stroke crank (counterweighted) and 94mm barrells and pistons.
What i want to know is, to go up in cc's like 2180cc or 2300cc, can the same pistons be used?
I know the engine has to come apart to have the case clearenced for the stroker crank, and i would obviously have the piston rings replaced, but do
lower compression pistons need to be fitted??
:bounce
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 09:51 PM |
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look at this table
http://www.offroadvw.net/tech/wes/enginesize.pdf
with smallish strokers you can simply use barrel spacers under the cylinders to reset your compression back to normal. For bigger strokers you will
need to use low compression pistons, and on real big strokes different conrods.
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NigeType3
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| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 10:34 PM |
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Just for interest you can use a 74mm stroke crank and do no mod to your case and as Wes has said use your existing pistons giving a capacity of
2054.
Just a question about stroker cranks dose anyone make the in OZ or are they all imports?
Cheers Nige:thumb
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70AutoStik
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| posted on March 25th, 2003 at 11:18 PM |
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Nige, there is at least one company producing stroker cranks in OZ (uses Holden conronds.)
As for stroking: conventional wisdom is that you can use up to 78mm with standard pin-height pistons (but the spacers are getting a bit ridiculous to
bring compression and deck-height down to a reasonable limit.) I would say you could get away with 76mm (no case clearancing with the right crank
and rods) with spacers and high-octane. That'd give you 2110 (but good 76mm cranks are hard to find.)
P.S. Increasing the stroke this much is exactly the kind of situation discussed in another thread, where Kadrons just aren't going to cut it
(the increase in port velocity puts Kads past their flow limit.)
[Edited on 25-3-2003 by 70AutoStik]
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NigeType3
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| posted on March 26th, 2003 at 11:13 AM |
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Thanks for that Ive been reading lots about building a stroker engine latley and no one has mentioned this just shows you can't learn everything
from books. But i sill beleave it to be the only way to get the power I want.
Cheers Nige:thumb
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 Bizarre
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| posted on March 26th, 2003 at 11:59 AM |
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You can get a lot of the basics from the tech articles at
aircooled.net
cal-look.com
There are some good stories on stroking there :o
Futue te ipsum!!!
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Quickbug
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 09:43 AM |
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Yeah i know the kads wont cut it - thats where efi will come in 
But also this engine only has new std heads.
I know ill need bigger heads or at least a port and polish and some bigger valves and heavy duty valve springs as well.
But i have heard good heads are getting ridiculously expensive...
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NigeType3
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 10:44 AM |
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What efi are you going to use is there an ozy made or at least supplied unit avaliable or is that all from the us as well.
Realy interested it this if you could let us know cheers Nige
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Quickbug
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| posted on March 27th, 2003 at 11:54 AM |
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Custom Bugs and Buses out at Penrith do a $3300 drive in drive out EFI setup.
Thats who i will be going with when the time comes
Soz - thats in NSW - dont know about their supplier though..
[Edited on 27-3-2003 by Quickbug]
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Quickbug
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| posted on March 28th, 2003 at 10:00 AM |
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Hmmmmmmm 88x94 = 2443...
*DROOOOOOL*
New pistons, new crank, new rods, case clearance, new heads, efi, HD clutch, new zorst...
Hmmm i think 76x94 will have to suffice...
Why does it always come back to cash?
:cussing
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Che Castro
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| posted on March 28th, 2003 at 02:10 PM |
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I know Richard at V-Force can set you up for an EFI system for pretty cheap too... microtech PEFI.
With the amount of money to build a big type 1, a type 4 is a viable alternative. Less people do it too, its cool either way
Jon
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Quickbug
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| posted on March 28th, 2003 at 02:47 PM |
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Yeah i know but i have the type1 already...
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OvalGlen
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| posted on March 29th, 2003 at 02:37 PM |
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sounds like outrageously Quick Bug coming up.
I think that supercharging a smaller capacity is a viable alternative.
Regards,Glenn>
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70AutoStik
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| posted on March 30th, 2003 at 01:19 AM |
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You know of suitable superchargers available locally?
(I'm not really interested - I'm into street-driven, and I don't think running methanol really counts. I may fit a nitrous kit to mine
though - an extra 50HP on demand {only off-street, of course!} is pretty tempting.)
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Quickbug
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| posted on March 30th, 2003 at 05:25 PM |
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A supercharged bug is a street viable alternative 70AutoStik... Why wouldnt you drive it on the street? Just coz its blown doesnt mean you have to run
methanol!!
If i went with a supercharger however OvalGlen, id need lower compression pistons. And if i went that route - id go turbo...
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KruizinKombi
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| posted on March 30th, 2003 at 05:39 PM |
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It seems to me that you've got a good motor already - it seems a shame to dismantle it to essentially build a new motor. Wouldn't it be more
viable to start afresh with a new block and P&C set?
Kruizin Kol
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70AutoStik
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 01:20 AM |
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VWs, being aircooled, have a bit of a problem with losing the extra heat produced along with any increase in output. Anyone who was to go to the
expense of a blower would be looking for a rather large increase in output. To run such an engine on the street would need some way to cope with heat
production - about the only practical way would be to run methanol (unfortunately, it's not legal.)
If you think I'm being a bit conservative, make some enquiries into the cost of a blower... I will admit there are some blowers coming out on
Holdens in some rather low-priced kits - maybe someone will produce a blown street VW and prove me wrong, but I doubt it. Even if you come up with an
affordable blower combo, you'll have to find a way to lose the heat produced.
I think you've been looking at water-cooled...
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 01:02 PM |
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Autostik,
There are plenty of cheap blowers around, jap import ones can be found for around $350.
There are a few people around running them. I think Greedy has one on his kombi.
Losing the extra heat has nothing to do with the supercharger. If you have a VW engine with 180HP, you have to lose the heat that 180HP produces. It
doesn't matter whether that 180HP came from a supercharger or a naturally aspirated engine. If fact by using an intercooler you should be able to
get a 180HP supercharged engine to run cooler than a 180HP naturally aspirated one.
Turbos are another matter, I personally think they put too much heat into the exhaust port which is already a weak spot on a vw engine. That's
why porsche used ceramic exhaust ports on their high HP turbo engines. A turbo will work, you will just crack heads quicker than with a
supercharger.
Quickbug,
You can supercharge your 1915 without replacing your P&C's. Just use barrel spacers under the cylinders to drop the CR.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 01:18 PM |
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Here is greedy's beast
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=439
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Quickbug
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 03:01 PM |
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Wes, would i need to change to a small cam, or could i leave the block together??
I have a fairly large cam - but not the biggest available for sure...
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 04:22 PM |
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I'd put the supercharger on and see how it goes. A big cam and a supercharger just means crap economy, cos the big overlap lets the supercharger
force air fuel out the exhaust. I think you'd be ok unless you've got a real wild cam.
The main challenge is getting the carb jetted right, and making sure running fuel through the supercharger won't effect it (some aren't
designed for this, others are). Of course if you go EFI you will have absolutely no problems. EFI also lets you run an intercooler (can't do that
with a draw through carb).
I was gunna build a supercharged type 4, but decided I would want EFI to do it properly. Then I thought for the cost of EFI I might as well stick a V6
in 
Horses for courses.
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Quickbug
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 04:36 PM |
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Yeah id go EFI.... before i went or at the same time as going supercharged.
Maybe cheaper for you to V6 but not for someone like me who cant do the stuff himself :P
Well i dont mind if economy aint the best - thats the price of power sometimes... 
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Andy
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 05:19 PM |
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A little off track maybe, but if increased performance is what your after (you may have already done this?) don't forget to lighten your bug.
Alum. mag's, and removing some un-necessary internals (seats, panels, sound proofing etc) can shave a lot of an already light car. Instant
performance boost.
:thumb
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Che Castro
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 06:08 PM |
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what about ceramic coating the exhaust ports? I like turbos more probably, and they can be just as driveable. Then again supercharging has come a
long way in recent years...
Jon
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Baja Wes
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 07:22 PM |
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ceramic coating would be a wise thing to do, however it is still only a relatively thin coating.
My friend has a sprinter. At first he put a 4AGZE supercharged 1600 in it, with an overdrive pulley for 12lb of boost. It went awesome with an insane
amount of torque anywhere in the rev range. Excellent for powerslides.
He has now put a bigger CA18DET turbo 1800 in it, also with the boost wound up. Even though it is bigger, it has no throttle response or low down
torque at all compared to the supercharged motor. When he puts his foot down nothing much happens, just gentle acceleration. Then things start going
by quicker, an air rushing / whistling starts coming from under the bonnet. The noise gets louder and you realise your now going ridiculous speeds.
Not as much fun as the supercharger, but it is faster. It does around high 12's from our G-tech measurements so far.
But I still preferred the supercharger. It is a simple matter of preference.
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Quickbug
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| posted on March 31st, 2003 at 07:25 PM |
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Id go super just to be different.
And i love the whine of a superchager!!
:o
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