| [ Total Views: 2070 | Total Replies: 35 | Thread Id: 50437 ] |
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 The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
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| posted on March 31st, 2006 at 08:00 PM |
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Recon the 1600 or go the 1776?
Well my 71' Baja has sat down the back yard long enough. It's cooling down enough to work towards rego.
Known to many as the Dog-O-War I fired him up this afternoon and brought him round the front to refurbish, roll on some paint and replace the faded
seatbelts. I let him idle a while this afternoon and wasn't surprised to see oil bleeding from the perished seal behind the pulley wheel.
Q. If I'm seeking reliability and a little more bottom end should I...
Option A: Retain the 1600tp and go a bottom end up recondition or
Option B: Pay the extra and go out to a 1776.
What prices would be considered as reasonable and what sort of questions should I be asking the mechanics here to ensure they know what they are
doing?
Thanks in advance.
The Bronze. (Dubbo)
PS - I'm running a PICT34 with dual cannons.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 31st, 2006 at 08:05 PM |
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If you are going to the trouble to go 1776 then you may as well go 1916. Cost is the same, reliability is the same, but the power is increased with
the 1916..............
Are you sure the 1600 really needs a rebuild ?
There is no seal behind the pulley, unless you are running an aftermarket sand seal.:jesus
[ Edited on 31-3-2006 by Craig Torrens ]
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kroozzn63
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| posted on March 31st, 2006 at 08:14 PM |
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i read a how to baja fact sheet on http://www.sandrail.com and it was mentioned if you
are going to build a baja you should start with a 1776 or bigger , however i drive all day every day in my splitty in a 1600 and shes very reliabable
but im upgrading to a 2017cc so ill just have to service her a bit more often .
[ Edited on 31-3-2006 by kroozzn62 ]
show us your gates
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 31st, 2006 at 08:28 PM |
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With it being a Baja, why not go a 2lt T4 motor ?
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
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| posted on March 31st, 2006 at 08:28 PM |
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I live 4 and a 1/2 hours from the coast and I don't want to trailer the Baja to and from Stockton 2 or 3 times a year. I want it to be reliable as
the main priority. The reason I'm not considering the 1916, (as good as they are) is the fact they do dump a lot of power. What I will end up with is
a great engine with a screwed transaxle or clutch out in the middle of stocko.
I am more than happy with the 1600. It delivers adequate power and has a lovely note through the twin pipes at full song. I don't want to upgrade to
a kombi box just yet. The 1776 would be a choice if it's as reliable and not much more costly.
I'm sure this 1600 I have does have a sand seal behind the crank pulley. Whatever is supposed to be holding the oil in has shat itself.
Bronze.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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Anthiron
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| posted on March 31st, 2006 at 10:00 PM |
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type 1 engines have like a little flicker thing that flicks the oil back into the sump when it tries to get out. i dont know how to explain it.
u can get sand seals for pulleys they run them alot in the US on rails and things.
i havent seen a type 1 with a major leak at the pulley before.
as i said in my other post.
ill let you know how my 1776 goes as im putting it in on sunday.
my bajas a bit older than yours but we run similar gear so it should be a good reference for you.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on March 31st, 2006 at 10:05 PM |
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oh and bronze check this place out
http://www.buggyadventures.com.au/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=index
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 05:09 AM |
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Thanks mate - I'll sit in waiting.
It would be very easy to dump a bigger mill in but I really don't want the power hassles. My brother bought a SLR5000 copy when I was about 12. For
the next three years he went through gearboxes, diffs, drive shafts, mounts you name it he replaced it at least twice. It spent more time off the road
than on. The best thing he ever did to it was wrap it around a tree.
Bronze.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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DubCrazy
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 06:47 AM |
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the 1776 is a fantastic engine, so strong you can abuse the hell out of them with no worrys at all... i have just built one up for my baja and cant
wait to get it all finished. I used to run a 1776 in my street bug and it would sit on 90 mph for hours with out missing a beat. I even had the
msfortune of the sound deadning coming of the back and totaly covering the fan intake. i didnt notice (stereo up to loud) till i started to lose
power. I turned her of and the engine niped up, wouldnt turn over again.
iwas i the middle of no where swearing and cursing for a few hours . After about 4 hours i managed to get her de-niped and of i went very slowly as
i needed to make it home.. buy the time i had got home i was thrashing the hell out if it again with the oh well its rooted cuz it niped up theroy.
That was over 7 years ago and its still running great in my mates bug with the only sign it ever happened is if you sit and hig revs for long periods
u get a puff of blue smoke when u beck of and hit it again...
i went 1835 after that and regreted it from day one the 1776 was such a bullet proof engine and went bloody well to...
I know what i woud be doing:thumb
steff.....................................
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!
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koolkarmakombi
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 08:50 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by The_Bronze.
I live 4 and a 1/2 hours from the coast and I don't want to trailer the Baja to and from Stockton 2 or 3 times a year. I want it to be reliable as
the main priority. The reason I'm not considering the 1916, (as good as they are) is the fact they do dump a lot of power. What I will end up with is
a great engine with a screwed transaxle or clutch out in the middle of stocko.
I am more than happy with the 1600. It delivers adequate power and has a lovely note through the twin pipes at full song. I don't want to upgrade to
a kombi box just yet.
You just answered your own question! :beer
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The_Bronze.
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 09:49 AM |
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I have heard a few things like DubCrazy's comment and would like a little more bottom end than the 1600 provides at present but don't want to end up
with a less reliable engine. I'm not a speed freak - just love climbing huge dunes the 4x4's can't.
Any more opinions?
Bronze.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 09:57 AM |
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Reliability comes from who builds it and the parts used , not necessarily the capacity.
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pete wood
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 04:44 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Reliability comes from who builds it and the parts used , not necessarily the capacity.
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I'm with Craig. No matter how big it is, it'll only last if it's built properly. That said, Hans Klaack, the bloke who built two awesome aircooled
motors for myself and my bro (and about a million others), said he won't give people waranties for anything bigger than an 1835 type 1. And even then
he asks people to put external oil coolers on them to make sure.
Hans reckons a stocker twinport 1640 with a standard cam, jetted up standard carb and some ratio rockers is the ultimate in reliablity and
performance. He built one for an offroad racer and this guy thrashed it for a whole season. Foot flat over jumps and revving it's guts out. He
couldn't kill it. Won the class outright coz everything broke down. It never failed to finish a race.
The next year he went out with a fullhouse type 4 and killed by over-revving it on the first jump.
:cry
Give Hans a call and see what he thinks...9724 5901
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The_Bronze.
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 05:23 PM |
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Thanks Pete.
I will give him a call and see where he is and sort a quote. I like to shop locally but if the guys here don't fill me with confidence I will happily
pay the freight to and from another shop.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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11CAB
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 05:51 PM |
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1776 Engines are great, I used to have one in my Baja Bug and ran a 34 pict carb on and it was great offroad. I turned the Baja back into a street
beetle and used to drive between the Gold Coast and Brisbane everyday (before speed cameras) and would sit on 160km/h for most of the trip no
problems......Ended up selling the car when we had kids and have regretted it since.....:cry
65 Meyers Manx
68 Country Buggy (KO 367)
68 Country Buggy (KO 669)
68 Country Buggy (KO 789)
68 Country Buggy (KO 815)
68 Baja Bug
76 Baja Kombi Twincab
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 06:30 PM |
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Hmm.
So, any ideas on the costs of each guys?
My current donor is a 1300 block with 1600tp heads and blocks. Can this be used for a recon 1776 and how many clams is a reasonable figure?
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on April 1st, 2006 at 08:44 PM |
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I'd pick up a later block if I were you. The dual relief is better for bigger motors, especially if you want to put external cooling on it.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on April 3rd, 2006 at 08:52 AM |
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Hi Bronze, good to hear from you again.
Oil coming from behind the pulley means the engine is rooted. Behind the pulley is a reverse thread and oil slinger washer. They are sufficient to
keep the oil in on a standard motor. The reverse thread pushes oil back into the case. The problem is it will push everything else into the engine too
(like if sand goes behind the pulley). So with a Baja you should keep the bit of tin that goes behind the pulley as it will help keep dirt and sand
away from the back of it.
When you engine is rooted and has too much blow-by (from worn rings) the crankcase pressure will be too high and will force blow-by and oil out past
the back of the pulley.
I had an 1835 which was good, but the blow-by from the warping 92mm cylinders (and worn rings) was too messy.
So I went to rebuild it to a 1776. I thought I'd get out of it for $1000. This would cover the new cylinders, reco-heads, and new gaskets / bearings.
Part way into the rebuild the budget blew out because the case was rooted and could not be line-bored anymore. This and other things meant it ended up
closer to $2000. The 1776 was a great motor. I ran it single carb for ages, then put twin kadrons on. The twin kadrons were a great improvement.
Although you probably won't like this suggestion, if you want reliable then put a jap motor in it. If you do everything yourself and use an older
carby subi motor you'd get out of it fairly cheaply. When you price up the bug motor rebuild, also price up a carby suby for comparison.
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on April 3rd, 2006 at 03:57 PM |
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or you could just sell the Baja and buy a 1992 Pajero for around the $5 to $6k mark....................................although you probably won't
like that suggestion either.
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byronbus
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| posted on April 3rd, 2006 at 05:54 PM |
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1776, give Kombi Rescue a call for a quote 0400 356 057
Built a sweet 1776 for my split, twin kads, ran Byron to Sydney and back many times, never missed a beat...highly recommended
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
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| posted on April 3rd, 2006 at 06:24 PM |
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Thanks Pete - I'll overlook considering the 1300 block for the rebuild. Keep it for sentimental value.
Wes - Nice to be back. Hmm - waterpumper option will be to bigger job for me I think. More to go wrong and I'm good at wiring but not that keen to
play with such a spagetti mess. Regardless it nice to know what the actual problem is. Why it leaking and what needs to be done. It been backed into
its far share of dunes in it time.
The 1650 & 1776 options are looking the heathiest thus far thanks to Dubcrazy, 11Cab, Wes and Byron. The wife like the Pajero solution the best Craig,
unfortunately I don't know anyone selling a 92' model so I won that arguement.
Don't know if I'd go the Twin Kadrons when playing in the sand. I've seen plenty out in the dunes but I'm a little skeptical that they are truly
sand proof. You can get excellent filters these days but I'm partial to the small Donaldson filter for best results - very agricultural.
Thanks to all who have added comment so far. I am aware the 1916 is a good option but as stated earlier I don't want tonnes of oompf. Reliabilty is
the key. I see there are couple of 1776's on offer. Mabey time to do some further investigations. Thanks to Pete and Byron for supplying the contact
numbers.
Bronze.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on April 4th, 2006 at 08:32 AM |
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Bronze, I meant an earlier carby suby motor, not an efi one. No spagetti to worry about. It would be almost as simple as the vw motor, and with the
advantage being that when you get bored of it you can step up to an EFI version.
I ran K&N's on my kadrons, and home-made foam covers on the sand. I never had a problem.
You've also been in my Baja when I had the 1916 with twin 44IDF's on stockton, so you know how something with more power goes.
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on April 4th, 2006 at 11:22 AM |
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no news as yes.....slight complications.....no engine in the baja at the moment:bounce
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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bajachris88
A.k.a.: Chris Leete
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| posted on April 4th, 2006 at 04:14 PM |
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hey baja wes, what yr models/ vehicle would u be looking at for a carbi subi engine? They just as easy to maintain? Wouldn't an engine swap like that
require alot more work with trying to fit it in, mount it, and then wouldn't u have to get engineerin approval or something?
I gotta get a motor eventually too, so am keeping a close eye on this thread.
My mates got a 2.8 ltr cressida V6 EFI (multi pt. injection) up for grabs, engine and tranny beaut (is auto though), but the body is rott. think its a
good engine donor?
[ Edited on 4/4/2006 by bajachris88 ]
(ô_!_/ô) (ô_!_/ô)
69' baja: kombi box, thing spindles, irs, disc front, type 3 rear drums, 2 inch lift kit, 31x10 rears. 
New engine in process: 94mm p&bs, 74mm C/w chomol Crank, 35.5x39 SP heads, turbo. Wierd combo, hopeful torque monsta! |
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
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| posted on April 4th, 2006 at 05:26 PM |
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I'm not horizontally opposed to a water pumper and now I have read it properly a NA'ed subi would be a good alternative. If I was a purist I
wouldn't drive a baja. I'd own a trakka - purpose built. Plumbing and adapter plated have well and truly been pioneered so they are not breaking new
ground buy doing the conversion. Of course Subaru is a bulletproof alternative which is the reliability - depending on where its sourced.
Like the pun - thought of it myself on my lonesone. The wife didn't get it. :duh
I guess now I'm informed I should make some phone calls and make sure I get what I pay for. I think reputation is the best way to gague good
workmanship. I might even look into getting the trans serviced while the engine is away and out. I really like to swap over to an auto box (for many
reasons people don't seem to follow me on) but that is just far to much hassle. For now I just want to get back on the road and do that stuff to a
second project when I have far more time and resources available.
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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Baja Wes
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| posted on April 5th, 2006 at 11:30 AM |
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a good person to speak to would be Matt in Rocky;
http://www.offroadvw.net/buggyboyz/QLD/mattthompson/Mattsupasports.htm
You'd be looking for an EA81 or EA82 engine.
EA81's ran from 80-89 (maybe only to 84/85 in Aus?) so there is a lot of them out there, and they are all carby (expect for the MPFI Turbo version).
~73HP I think.
A step up would be the carbed EA82 `85-87 - smaller model run so harder to find. They made a bit more power ~88HP. There are many EFI version as they
ran from 85-94. Then you can change to the EA82 turbo later when your bored.
I think the EA81 is pushrod and the EA82 is OHC. So if you don't like timing belts then EA81 would be the simplest.
I reckon an EA81 (reco), adaptor and 2nd hand radiator would be cheaper than a reco 1776.
Yes you would need approval, but that would be very simple with such a low spec engine transplant.
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Anthiron
A.k.a.: Nicko McKay
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| posted on April 5th, 2006 at 03:26 PM |
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EA81 were pushrod so slightly slimmer to fit in engine bay. not really an issue in a baja though.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
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11CAB
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| posted on April 5th, 2006 at 06:16 PM |
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Gordon loves his EA81's, he's collected quite a few and a few adaptors too. He's run them in his Baja Kombi, Baja Bug, Convertible.........
65 Meyers Manx
68 Country Buggy (KO 367)
68 Country Buggy (KO 669)
68 Country Buggy (KO 789)
68 Country Buggy (KO 815)
68 Baja Bug
76 Baja Kombi Twincab
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The_Bronze.
A.k.a.: Bronze
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| posted on April 6th, 2006 at 07:13 AM |
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 - Yeah - But what about the Tranny Guys.
What 73 & 88hp is twice as much as I already have so what needs to be done to stop the spring from snapping in the guts of it all.
Swapping to a waterpumper is all well and good with me but then (i could) end up with a great motor and NRMA looking at the tranny 10 hours from home
at Minnie Waters.
Suggestions...
[size=4]Bronze.[/size]
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
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Baja Wes
Bishop of Volkswagenism
V6 Baja Pioneer
Posts: 3119
Threads: 94
Registered: August 26th, 2002
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| posted on April 6th, 2006 at 08:45 AM |
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a 1776 VW motor should have similar torque and HP as the EA81 as they are a similar size motor. So the tranny doesn't really come into the engine
selection equation.
What gearbox are you running again?
The things I broke with my swingaxles is spider gears and a reverse gear. Spiders gears need a superdiff to fix which is relatively expensive. Better
to just get the stock diff rebuilt (mine probably dies as the spider gears weren't shimmed with the correct preload and could slap around). Then
drive sensibly.
Stock IRS trannies don't seem to break the spider gears as much. I think because the CV's and axles take the shock loads out, and hittinh the wheel
side on doesn't try to push the diff out the other side of the gearbox like with a swingaxle.
I think a stock IRS would be fine, and a stock swinger in good condition driven sensibly would also be fine.
The auto would be a lot of work and doesn't seem to like the big tyres. A guy in the club has a manx with an auto and a 1600, and it can't reverse
on most surfaces cos the gearing is too tall.
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