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 type3lover
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| posted on June 2nd, 2006 at 09:52 PM |
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magna dizzy
Hi everyone,
I just happen to have an early Magna dizzy (the reluctor type). I wonder who can do the machining to make it fit into a type 3? What would this cost?
Beer money? I don't have a lathe and would struggle to operate one! I am in Sydney if someone wants to volunteer!!
Cheers,
Toby :thumb
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71EJVan
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| posted on June 4th, 2006 at 08:27 AM |
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Mine cost $40 from a local guy who has since moved to WA.
He shortened it (both the bottom and the step area where the clamp goes), re-installed the bottom phosphor bronze bush, drilled a new oil hole and
turned down the shaft.
Mine came from a 86 Magna.
Brendan
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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type3lover
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| posted on June 7th, 2006 at 10:31 PM |
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For forty bucks? That seems like a good price. (roughly a case of beer!)
Also did you take him your VW dizzy to compare measurements?
Can any machinist do this job properly?
Cheers, T
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71EJVan
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| posted on June 7th, 2006 at 11:01 PM |
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I measured it all up myself and took him a drawing. This is a relatively easy job. The hardest part is getting the location of the hole for the drive
pin. I'll search for some pictures.
Brendan
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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71EJVan
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| posted on June 7th, 2006 at 11:08 PM |
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Some info on programmable ignitions to go with the Magna dizzy
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=36724&page=1#pid324761
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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71EJVan
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| posted on June 7th, 2006 at 11:11 PM |
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Another one (I use to be GL1972)
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=20703&page=1#pid153019
Brendan
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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type3lover
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| posted on June 7th, 2006 at 11:53 PM |
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Sounds pretty cool, but I can't find the programmable igntion on the Jaycar website anymore. The HEI is there, and since I'm pretty handy with a
soldering iron I'd grab that and incorporate it into my setup with no prob. I am concerned that the advance curve of the magna dizzy is not ideal for
the aircooled VW motor that I am using.
Obviously if EFI is used then the later magna dizzy would be the best choice. Has 2 x hall effect sensors - 1 for TDC and 1 for No. 1 TDC I think. All
timing is controlled then by the ECU.
Anyhoo, could I just bolt in the machined magna dizzy with the magna coil and the control module that is part of the dizzy and wire it up? How would
an aircooled VW 1776 like this?
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71EJVan
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| posted on June 8th, 2006 at 10:44 AM |
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I played around with many different curve settings before I got smooth power delivery. I had 40mm Dels and no vacume advance so the accel pumps tended
to overcome the initial lag when you put your foot into it.
I took the module out of the dizzy and ran direct off the programmable HEI but I think it would be worth trying with the stock setup. It depends on
tuneability of the stock ECU. The main thing is have control of your total advance. The Jaycar unit had starting RPM/Advance, Mid RPM/Advance and
Total Advance at predetermined RPM so you could have a steep initial curve to overcome no vacume adv and you could play around where the total advance
was set. It ran very smooth compared to the 009 but I think I picked the wrong coil. The car now has a 1600 in it so I'll get an oil filled coil and
play with it again.
Regards
Brendan
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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kevo
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| posted on June 8th, 2006 at 02:12 PM |
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what is the benefit from all that hassel?
does the car run more efficiently, better timing?
if you were driving the car would you ever notice the difference?
what im askin is... is it realy worth it ?
if it is thats awesome guys
76 baywindow kombi - V8 & Weddle racing diff and gearbox
Daily driven beach cruiser
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type3lover
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| posted on June 8th, 2006 at 06:02 PM |
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My answer: Yes to all of the above!
also...
- virtually maintenance-free
- high energy spark promotes better combustion
- increased reliability
- ignition timing always spot on
- slight increase in performance and fuel economy in most cases
And no need to frig around with points anymore!
That's good enough for me.
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bus914
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| posted on June 8th, 2006 at 06:15 PM |
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siliconchip mag describes the jaycar prog ignition as very crude, it has only 3 setting points. if you want a nice prog ignition try to find a
secondhand haltech IG5 ignition only computer. the jaycar HEI ignition module on the other is very good.
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type3lover
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| posted on June 14th, 2006 at 08:45 PM |
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The earlier magna dizzy has built in vacuum and centrifugal advance. I was wondering how these advance curves work with an aircooled motor?
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71EJVan
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| posted on June 15th, 2006 at 12:15 PM |
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I removed the vacume advance and pinned the mechanical advance so it would not work. (I tried it with and without mechanical advance)
Having three setting points was not a problem if you were not agressive with the mid point advance setting. Having said all this it worked well with
twin 40 Dellortos. Not sure how it would go with with a stock carb though.
Brendan
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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ratty 63
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 04:43 PM |
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Even if the Jaycar system is very crude - it couldn't be any worse than using a 009!
I can vouch for the difference that a programmable advance curve can make to the VW engine. My EFI system incorporates a programmable advance curve,
and whilst it has taken some time to get the setting all correct, the car drives much nicer even with a 'messy' advance map than it ever did using a
009.
I'm interested in this Magna/Jaycar system for a different car (not EFI) - can anyone give me an approximate cost to set it up? If it's not too
expensive I might give it a go....
R 
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71EJVan
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| posted on June 20th, 2006 at 11:35 AM |
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About $220 for all parts including kits, dizzy and machining.
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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type3lover
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| posted on June 20th, 2006 at 05:53 PM |
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That seems like a fair price. Give or take a bit for the varied cost of the 2nd hand dizzy and what condition it is in and the cost of machining. I'd
imagine a dizzy could cost between $35 and $80 depending on the condition and the wrecker. Would that seem about right?
EJ can you clear something up for me pls. Does that rely on the advance from the dizzy or the 3 step Jaycar prog. ignition kit? Does the HEI kit work
alongside that one? And does that price include both kits? I didn't see the prog. ign kit on the Jaycar website. Do you think it's still
available?
A factor to consider is that with only 3 advance settings you wouldn't be running optimum advance much of the time. Would that be right?
Cheers, T 
P.S. Hey Ratty nice work mate!
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71EJVan
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| posted on June 20th, 2006 at 09:41 PM |
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Mine was off a 86 magna and cost $40 including rotor button and dizzy cap in perfect condition.
As I said earlier if you do not get too agressive with the advance especially at the mid point RPMs they are quite ok.
Brendan
A VW for everyone!!
1972 1302 German Look
1971 Bay Panel with Subaru EJ20T
1970 Type 3 squareback in progress
1971 Type 3 notchback in progress
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ratty 63
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| posted on June 21st, 2006 at 01:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by type3lover
That seems like a fair price. Give or take a bit for the varied cost of the 2nd hand dizzy and what condition it is in and the cost of machining. I'd
imagine a dizzy could cost between $35 and $80 depending on the condition and the wrecker. Would that seem about right?
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Yeah, sounds about right to me - don't forget to check with your local scrap metal/crushers yard - found heaps of EFI stuff there on a "if you can
remove it before we crush the car its yours" price scheme!
| Quote: | I didn't see the
prog. ign kit on the Jaycar website. Do you think it's still available?
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...funny you should ask that - I was in Jaycar at Mermaid Beach (chasing something else) only last week and I saw a programmable ignition kit on the
shelf - not sure if it is the same one (anyone have a Catalogue number?)
| Quote: | Hey Ratty nice work
mate!
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:blush
R
[ Edited on 21-6-2006 by ratty 63 ]
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tassupervee
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| posted on June 21st, 2006 at 06:31 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 71EJVan
About $220 for all parts including kits, dizzy and machining.
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Its woth mentioning for about that cost, you can buy a complete Pertronix billet adjustable replacement dizzy with the latest Ignitor 11 module with
intelligent dwell control.
Straight drop in for a kraut, add you favourite electronic ignition coil and your away.
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get zapped by an ignition with this capability! Ive neve in my life seen such a spark produced like from this setup.
Saves a lot of rooting around unless you are a die-hard do-it-you-selfer.
Looks trick too!!
I was going to go down this road for my F-Vee but I already had an adjustable Mallory distributer so I simply got the Ignitor 2 module to fit that.
L8tr
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Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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type3lover
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| posted on June 21st, 2006 at 07:05 PM |
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I'm a die had do-it-yourselfer...always have been. I use the hammer and credit card method...have a go and then pay someone to fix it and do it
properly!! Kidding (usually!).
I wish I knew some wreckers / scrap metal ppl in Syd that don't mind someone harvesting a few electronic goodies before they go to the crusher!
Catalogue numbers for the Jaycar kits would be great if anyone has them?
Fuel-wise this could be to go with VW efi parts using a vw or aftermarket fuel controller (interested in the megasquirt kit). Can't see why they
wouldn't work together.
One day I'll turbocharge the notchy with programmable EFI, but now I just need a cheap and solid ignition setup that will do a good job.
Will transfer the working magna dizzy setup to another of my VW's in time if it proves to be good!
[ Edited on 21-6-2006 by type3lover ]
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tassupervee
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| posted on June 21st, 2006 at 07:59 PM |
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Oh, by the way, speaking of dizzies.
Nissan Pulsar E series engines, the dizzy drops right in apart from the drive at the bottom.
The Nissan dizzy has a shaft machined down to a "tang" (almost identical to a VW oil pump drive) and it would be a doddle to remove that tang, drill
a hole and position the WV dizzy drive.
This will be the way i travel when i do my turbo 1600 with EFI for my F-Vee "fun" car.
I have a spare programmeable EMS efi system and I intend to run that using a Pulsar turbo dizzy.
E series Nissan engine come with points (e13 & e15 carb models) and an electronic distributer in the e16 carb engine variant.
E series engines are found in N10 and N12 Pulsars up to 1987 and in all Nissan Praries.
Have fun.
L8tr
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 barls
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| posted on June 21st, 2006 at 08:01 PM |
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try this one mate
http://www.partsplus.com.au
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ratty 63
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| posted on June 22nd, 2006 at 12:36 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by tassupervee
Oh, by the way, speaking of dizzies.
Nissan Pulsar E series engines, the dizzy drops right in apart from the drive at the bottom.
The Nissan dizzy has a shaft machined down to a "tang" (almost identical to a VW oil pump drive) and it would be a doddle to remove that tang, drill
a hole and position the WV dizzy drive.....
....E series Nissan engine come with points (e13 & e15 carb models) and an electronic distributer in the e16 carb engine variant.
E series engines are found in N10 and N12 Pulsars up to 1987 and in all Nissan Praries.
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From the way you describe these dissys they sound to be very similar to the dissys from the later engines (fitted to the N13 Pulsars), which were EFI
- these dissys are fully electronic and are used with the EFI system that I use (from the Camira). If they are the same (or very similar) case, then
making them fit into a VW engine is easy.
R
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bus914
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| posted on June 22nd, 2006 at 01:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratty 63
Even if the Jaycar system is very crude - it couldn't be any worse than using a 009!
I can vouch for the difference that a programmable advance curve can make to the VW engine. My EFI system incorporates a programmable advance curve,
and whilst it has taken some time to get the setting all correct, the car drives much nicer even with a 'messy' advance map than it ever did using a
009.
I'm interested in this Magna/Jaycar system for a different car (not EFI) - can anyone give me an approximate cost to set it up? If it's not too
expensive I might give it a go....
R
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i totally agree that the 009 isn't the be all end all, and EFI ECU programable ignition is fantastic when tuned well. but the jaycar prog ignition is
not in the same class.
i was going to do something like this myself, but then just opted for a reco stock dizzy (for my microtech MT4 efi). still have the parts if anyone
wants them:
[ Edited on 22-6-2006 by bus914 ]
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tassupervee
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| posted on June 22nd, 2006 at 06:03 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by ratty 63
From the way you describe these dissys they sound to be very similar to the dissys from the later engines (fitted to the N13 Pulsars), which were EFI
- these dissys are fully electronic and are used with the EFI system that I use (from the Camira). If they are the same (or very similar) case, then
making them fit into a VW engine is easy.
R
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Heya Ratsnest
Actually, altho the engine are poles apart in design,E series engine being Jap and the Camira/Pulsar engine is a european "world" engine (fitted to
a zillion different cars in 1600, 1800 and 2 litre variants) the Camira dizzy can be made to fit into the E series engine.
I know a dude in Melb who added this EFI setup to his E15 turbo.
It sure follows that it would be a similar doddle to adapt this dizzy to a Kraut.
L8tr M8
E
Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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76bug
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| posted on June 23rd, 2006 at 10:44 AM |
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y not use a 2.1l water boxer dizzy its a 3 wire hall effect and bolts straight in to a type1
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tassupervee
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| posted on June 23rd, 2006 at 04:43 PM |
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Because that would be too frikken easy wouldnt it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hmmmm, thanks for that info '76.
Thats going to come in mighty handy in the very forseeable future I can assure you!
Nice thing is that usually, the ECU config is the same for Hall and optical. Yay!
L8tr
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Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....
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type3lover
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| posted on June 23rd, 2006 at 06:33 PM |
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Hey Bus914, what's that 2nd pic of? High energy ignition kit?
What's your asking price for all the bits?
Cheers, T
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type3lover
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| posted on June 23rd, 2006 at 09:15 PM |
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Just a thought...doesn't the magna dizzy (early one) already have a built in controle module which does the same job as the HEI kit? Of course it
would work with the magna coil as a "set".
I'm thinking that the kit mentioned would use the inductive signal from the pickup in the dizzy to amplify the spark signal anyway for the primary of
the coil only if the magna module were not there. Of course we would be back to depending upon the advance curve of the magna dizzy which I wonder
would be suitable for a mild 1776.
Anyone able to clarify this?
Cheers, T:thumb
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bus914
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| posted on June 23rd, 2006 at 09:59 PM |
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i don't know about the early one, but the efi dizzy only has the sensors, and no advance at all. it would have used a bosch module that would be
mounted somewhere near the coil and ofcourse the timing from the ecu.
...and your thoughts on the HEI kit are correct. ...and it should'nt be used in conjunction with an inbuilt module if it has one.
[ Edited on 23-6-2006 by bus914 ]
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