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 2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 10:37 AM |
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Going racing and need some advice to break into the 10's.
Hi everyone,
Its been a while since i've been on the forum, but i'm back at last. I've been spending too much time playing with cars i guess...
So, on the 22nd of July I will be attending a street meet drag racing event in townsville. I was intending on bringing my skyline GTS4 down to race,
but i think the time has come to put my bug on the track and see what it can do.
Basicly the car scene up here in Cairns are mostly V8's or imports. A few have asked what my car is capable of on the 1/4 but none believe it. Not
that I have anything to prove to these guys, but it would be great to be able to shut them down once and for all. So, to that end I'd like to break
the 10.99 1/4 mile time and get thrown off the track for not having a cage.
I've got nearly a month to get things ready. Those that don't know my car or its specs they are as follows..
2332 cc, TCS10 cam, ported CB comp eliminators (48x38), dual springs and titanium parts etc, air cooled.net HD alloy pushrods, scat light lifters,
GT28-320 turbo with a 0.64 housing, 0.6 compressor, pwr 400hp intercooler, wolf ecu, 660cc injectors, cold air intake from the right rear window.
The gearbox was built by hellbug and is a late model case with stock 1st,2nd and 4th ratios, 1.48 berg 3rd, welded 3rd and 4th, berg keys, forged
forks and a 3.875 diff. Clutch is a 4 puck scat ceramic with 1700lb kennedy plate. Tyres are 205x40x17 falken ziex 512's.
I've installed a custom 3 bar kaffar style traction brace. Rear shocks are koni adjustable rate absorbers, fronts are stock late model style. Rear
suspension is lowered so the wheels sit vertical, the front is adjustable and sits about an inch lower than the rear.
My plans so far for making it race ready is to strip out the interior, replace the remaining left and rear windows with plexiglass, and to fit a
methanol injection system that will spray into the air intake above 5lb boost (more for engine detonation protection, though it will add some power.
I'll be replacing my drivers side seat also, as last time I was out street tuning the seat was ripped off the seat rails when accelerating in 3rd.
I want to do the pass on street tyres.
I need some advice on the following...:
Suspension setup.. What should i change the front shocks too, and what sort of ride height should I set the front up to. I have the largest castor
shims I can fit in the front also.
Rear suspension is adjustable. I imagine I set the dampner rates as soft as possible?
Engine setup and tune. As i don't expect to rev the engine over 6000 I figure stock valve clearances would apply. I'm running NGK D9EA plugs with
MSD ignition at the moment, and it fires cleanly thru the entire rev range.
What else have I over looked?
Any and all advice for all out racing would be appreciated.
Cheers,
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 10:46 AM |
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One more thing... boost control.
I'll be winding the wastegate down to 8-10lb to preserve the gearbox during launches, but with the addition of a boost control solenoid i'll be
runnign 14-15lb in 2nd, 3rd and 4th.
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shiftyvw
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 12:23 PM |
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whats the track like?
testing 1 2 3...
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 12:24 PM |
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By the sound of things the engine potential will be enough, but not on street tyres.
On street tyres you will need 130mph plus to be in the 10s. (120+ on slicks)
When I first ran tens with my 1776, the firs 60 feet had to be just right.
If you are talking about M&H street tyres then that is another thing.
If it were me I would stiffen the compression a little on the rear, but some people use
soft compression and hit the bump stop hard to squat the tyre its self.
On a tyre that is inadequate you will need a very fast extension of the front shocks.
The best piece of advice I can give is not to get your expectations too high, it will only run what it runs on the day.(Henry's advice)
Just leave the car alone and wear it out...most of all have fun!
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 12:36 PM |
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Aparently the track is known to have traction problems for the v8 guys, but those that know how to setup their cars can run 10's with their v8
naturally aspirated street cars.
I suspect that the comments about bad traction is more from people trying to drag race their drift car and nothing more.
The track is aparently a but bumpy at the top end as well. Unfortunatly i've never driven on it.
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 01:05 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by iswinkels
Aparently the track is known to have traction problems for the v8 guys, but those that know how to setup their cars can run 10's with their v8
naturally aspirated street cars.
I suspect that the comments about bad traction is more from people trying to drag race their drift car and nothing more.
The track is aparently a but bumpy at the top end as well. Unfortunatly i've never driven on it.
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The track is like you said....shouldn't have many traction problems but is is a bit bumpy...which has brought a few people unstuck in the past... Are
you driving it down?? Hopefully it will get cool again in the next month.Enjoy!!:beer:rudolf
tssnq.com.au
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 01:37 PM |
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I might be driving down, not sure exactly.
Ideally i'll be trailering it down behind my dads cruiser, that is if he's back in Cairns by then. My other option is to trailer it behind my
housemates chevy.
Wibble will with any luck have his manx on the back of the chev and i'll have my car on the trailer behind it. I'm going to try and get him fired up
to race as well. I'm going to loan him my 1641cc turbo engine for the trip, so he should do 11's too with any luck.
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bajaben
A.k.a.: Ben Alderson
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 06:29 PM |
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ill come and watch for sure. I got some guys here who things beetle suck ass and i would definately love to pair him up with you so you can obliterate
him easily hehe. Anyway make sure you come cause i haven't seen a beetle run here before but the track is supposibly very slippery. i know 2
different guys who are spinning the tired all the way accross the line. one has a 808 with a turbo 13b that runs 432hp at the wheels and the other is
an old commoder the has a worked n/a 355 chev in it. but these are both on street tires.
trunk monkey, because sometime getting your car back just isn't enough
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lohoon
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 06:45 PM |
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What about liftin the front end so to limit the weight transfer,ie it will be part way there?just a thought.
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MickH
A.k.a.: Michael Hutchinson
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| posted on June 18th, 2006 at 07:28 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by bajaben
blah..blah.. but the track is supposibly very slippery. i know 2 different guys who are spinning the tired all the way accross the line. one has a 808
with a turbo 13b that runs 432hp at the wheels and the other is an old commoder the has a worked n/a 355 chev in it. but these are both on street
tires.
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And neither of them have most of the vehicles weight on the drive wheels!!!! You'll be right..come on down P
[ Edited on 18-6-06 by Mick H ]
tssnq.com.au
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bajaben
A.k.a.: Ben Alderson
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 04:42 AM |
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thats true mick. I will be out there if you come down ian. will make some people cry if you come down, run awesome times, then drive it home haha. My
mate with the 808 won it last time with a 12 something. so should be able to run it all the way till the final few. good luck 
trunk monkey, because sometime getting your car back just isn't enough
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Boostn
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 01:39 PM |
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Have you ever drag raced before?
Just do the best you can and don't expect anything, but have fun!
VOLLKOMMEN ART
nick@vollkommenart.com
Speed and Style
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 01:54 PM |
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Only on the street. But even then to be honest never against another car with a planned race as such. Mostly just traffic light races etc. I've
practiced launching the car plenty of times of course and have got that down pat, though i'd imagine there will be some learning to be done again
considering the traction i'll get on a rubber coated surface.
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bajaben
A.k.a.: Ben Alderson
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 03:32 PM |
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probably won't get much, how wide are the tires you are running? and how much wheel spin do you normally get?
trunk monkey, because sometime getting your car back just isn't enough
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 03:36 PM |
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All the data for the car is in the first post.
I get as much wheel spin as I want to, it depends on how i drive it... I can get 3rd gear wheel spin easily if I drive it to spin the wheels, but if I
am smooth with my driving (while still flooring it, it only just slips 2nd gear. I don't dump it hard enough in first to spin the wheels. There's no
point in smoking tyres that cost $220 each.
Wet road driving is a little scary... fortunatly they don't drag race when its wet.
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bajaben
A.k.a.: Ben Alderson
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 03:43 PM |
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yeah true. well ill come out and watch for sure. finally meet you, been wanting to see your car in the flesh since i first saw it on here. you will
have to take me for a drive while your down But i might have to bring 2
pairs of underwear
trunk monkey, because sometime getting your car back just isn't enough
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 03:47 PM |
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Not sure that will be possible Ben... I'm taking out the passenger seat and seatbelts. Maximum weight reduction.
Also it will have no muffler and will instead have a 2.5" straight thru pipe. I want to scare the v8 and import guys with just the sound of it, which
is pretty amazing when its blowing straight out... 
Scared me when I first started the engine, I thought , dam what have i built here! Funny what you can get used to tho...
[ Edited on 19-6-2006 by iswinkels ]
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bajaben
A.k.a.: Ben Alderson
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 03:51 PM |
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see now im really really excited haha. oh well. im gonna tell alot of people i know to come cause my mate would love to see a beetle that fast and
some other would hate to see it. haha.
trunk monkey, because sometime getting your car back just isn't enough
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 03:54 PM |
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Don't tell too many people though... I don't want it to get back to the import croud that its coming down. As far as they are all concerned i'm
bringing down my skyline instead.
The event on the 22nd is being attended by a group of car enthuesiests called Queensland Street Scene. Its a Cairns based forum that I'm a moderator
of. The event was arranged by me, and so far has 30 people booked in to race. Mostly aussie v8's and 6's and imports of course.
Our event is a cruise down as a group, lunch on the way, race at night cruise back and lunch at the frosty mango etc. I want to roll up on the day
with the bug on the back of a truck stripped out and ready to race and supprise a few people.
[ Edited on 19-6-2006 by iswinkels ]
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tayloredvw
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| posted on June 19th, 2006 at 08:51 PM |
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get some nos, fast and the furious style, "i need more nos"
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no slow 63
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| posted on June 20th, 2006 at 08:07 AM |
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Sounds like you have a quick car there!! Make sure you show us all your time slips!!
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Adolph
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| posted on June 21st, 2006 at 10:33 PM |
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Hi Ian
I dont want to sound negative, but I agree with Dave.
The street tyres will not allow you to get the traction to run in the tens.
You are making to much power for the size of tyre that you are using, and the low profile does not help you, it will only make you spin the wheels
quicker.
I have run street tyres for years, in a class that did not allow slicks. I made about the same power and my best was 12.2 at 120 mph, and I did that
with about 250Hp. More power did not make me any quicker.
I ran 235/60-15 tyres, to get as much rubber on the road as I could fit under 2" wider fenders.
You would have to mix the methanol with 50% water otherwise it will create detonation, but it really works.
My advise is, run it as it is and enjoy it. dont expect to be the quickest every time, you will only be disappointed if the car does not perform to
your expectations.
I don't know of one racer, that ran his first race bug, for the first time at the strip, that could get into the tens. It takes time and
experience.
It might look and feel fast on the street, but at the strip you see what it can really do.
I say go for low 12's and if you are quicker then you feel really good.
Don't lern to swim on the deep side of the pool.
I hope you don't take this in the wrong way.
Just enjoy the day.
Hermann
Let us know how it goes.
2000cc turbo type 4, dragster (325Kw)
2714cc no turbo, no gas, street bug (140Kw)
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1303Steve
A.k.a.: Steve Carter
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| posted on June 21st, 2006 at 11:22 PM |
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Hi
Low profile tyres are prone to axle tramp as well, tramp will hurt the chassis and trans.
You probably dont want to spend anymore money but maybe a pair of drag radials that could be shared with your Skyline would be the go.
Good luck and burn some rice.
Steve
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on June 22nd, 2006 at 09:05 AM |
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All right then it looks like I should just aim for 12's then and to have some fun. As it is, that will still beat most of the ricer boys . Thanks for
the info too with the methanol/water injection as well.
I'll be sure to post a time sheet.
Cheers,
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humpty
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| posted on June 27th, 2006 at 10:54 PM |
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It has been my experience that low profile street tyres don't work at the track.... Good quality street performance tyres of around 60-65 series will
work way better, but really if you can, at a later date buy some street legal drag radial such as the MT's or BFG deals.... Not so great for street
driving really but a nice compromise at the track.... Use this round as a learner, because I don'y know anyone who pulled big numbers at the first
outing.... Your engine is capable, your trans will be ok'ish, but your suspension and wheel/tyre combo is not gonna get you the numbers.... On the
front I use to run different shocks (90/10's) for the drags.... I even tried no shocks a few times!....But I didn't like how it unsettled the
car..... But one thing is for certain.... It will be hell quick!
Once the drag fever has you, ppl like Dave and Hermann will be the dudes to talk to....
PS:... Look out for the 'red mist' that comes over you when the tree starts to light up!
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on June 28th, 2006 at 06:50 AM |
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Youre going to have an absolute ball!
I think with 300 odd hp on tap you should be in the low twelves or high elevens at 125 or so
but it is going to be so much fun!
I think Pete McLeod ran some mid elevens at 125 in his spyder with Sube power,
but I am not sure about what tyres he had.
Actually, Wayne Penroses Oval is probably a better comparison, but he was using M&H steeters.
11.60s I think, and Nick(boostin') has run in the 11.0's, with a similar tyre.
I am so looking forward to you running at the blacktop dyno, you will be addicted!
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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humpty
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| posted on June 28th, 2006 at 11:07 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by dangerous
I am so looking forward to you running at the blacktop dyno, you will be addicted!
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Damn straight you will..... Its amazing how adictive that little strip of blacktop can be.... You are so gonna get hooked!.... There is nuthin like
blowing away an HSV with a little ol' dub.... They just dont believe it!......
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pete wood
A.k.a.: figure itout
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| posted on June 29th, 2006 at 10:15 AM |
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Pete Mcleod was using his racing slicks and the spyder. Send him a u2u and ask him, he'll tell you.
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dangerous
A.k.a.: Dave Butler Muffin Man
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| posted on July 26th, 2006 at 08:58 PM |
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How did you go Ian?
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on July 27th, 2006 at 08:52 AM |
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I wasn't able to get the car ready in time. I have just started a business and money was too tight so I couldn't do to the car that which I wanted
too.
I did think of racing it as is but then my tow car driver lost his license! Driving the car nearly 900k round trip and racing it is not a good idea...
In the end I decided I need more preporation time so I'll just have a go at the up coming 8th mile event first, and then try for the 1/4 later on.
I did get to race my skyline instead though and got a first hand look at the cracks in the track and how bad the braking area is. Getting some
practice just racing was a good start anyway, as I clearly need a lot more of that. Nerves at the start line etc... My best time when i stuffed a
gear shift was a 13.826 at 116.97 mph.
Funny that the VW is easier to drive and shift gears fast than the skyline is.
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