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 boof2332
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| posted on August 27th, 2006 at 11:00 AM |
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Single Side Plate Boxes...How they are going!!!!.
As there are heaps of people questioning the gearbox options for there conversions and people tell us that ssp boxes are good and others say they are
not strong enough.....Here are the stats...
Matt(thats me)
SSP with aftermarket 3rd and 4th gears(stock ratios although I have been told my 4th is a 1.01 or similar that came out in only a couple of ssp
boxes....not sure. I have a super diff and front plate under the nose cone. It was performing great until I flat changed second on a joy ride and
destroyed second gear. Got a second hand main shaft from another box and threw it back together...is going fine. I am running stock cv's, drive it
everyday and do not thrash it but definetely do not nurse it..hard not to give it to it all day.
Jak.
had a ssp..totally stock and 3 years old....it was fine until he did 3rd gear on the track. Put a superbug bix in and the ratios were too close. Put
$125 second hand box (ssp) in and it was fine until same place, same track...3rd gear done again. Has had it rebuilt for about $500 with stronger
bits. He has the original cv's from when the car was new.
Paul(1303)
Has ssp stock and has tried to blow is motor up just because he wants to show everyone that he can replace it for $700 in a weekend....his box lasted
till the track when it too threw 3rd on first or second outing. Stock cv's.
We all have 215 clutches with beefed up pressure plates from mike at cbb(850kg clamp force).
SO....If you just street cruise and do not flat change/ hard start then a stock box would be fine.
If you track it then 3rd and 4th need to be stronger/welded/splined. maybe a super diff.(same as mine)
For drags you really need albins mainshaft and full gear set. about $2500 in bits....$3000 built. Maybe type 4 cv's or similar.
Ratios...depending on the turbo and its spool up, I would go taller. YES TALLER. 3rd I would keep the same, make ist a bit longer as with second and
4th. Mine does about 3000 at 100kph a and about 3360 at 120.
Anyone else please post their gearbox history behind various engines(what hp/torque).
Hope this has helped a little
Matt
[ Edited on 27-8-06 by boof2332 ]
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malcolm
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| posted on August 27th, 2006 at 03:14 PM |
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Matt with the conversions in bugs are they supporting the motor or are they relying on the gearbox this would twist the gearbox case with the extra
weight in motor.Porsche use the same mounts to support gearbox and motor.Also the pan forlks need to be strengthend ,when clearencing my folks for the
915 box most of the internal spot weld came undone due to tear & wear.
Have you approached Albins to buy gearseta in bulk to reduce cost.
cheers Malcolm.
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boof2332
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| posted on August 27th, 2006 at 08:59 PM |
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We all used a hard front mount(2 inch move forward) and then did our own versions of engine and fork support. Usually some form of cross bracing with
trapeeze type supports. I will post a pic of the brace made for the splitty we just did that bolts to the original ej20t engine mounts. It is made out
of roll cage tubing.
I havnt approached albins as there are not quite enough to ask for a discount thus far, although no harm in asking.
Matt
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silverbullet
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| posted on August 27th, 2006 at 09:51 PM |
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I have a ssp box (std form) in mine with a ea82t putting down around 105kw at the wheels. I have done around 5000kms on this box with no drama's,
apart from reverse being a bit dodgy, but dont really give it that much abuse as i am to scared of breaking it. I reallly want to beef it up and
extened the ratios. It revs a little high at 100km i think around 3250rpm from memory been a while since i have driven it. It also has a top speed of
200km. I am about to take the geabox out to get the car painted so might even consider doing some mods whilist out. I want to put it aound the track
and down the strip ocasionally. Cheers Ian
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Euro_67
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| posted on August 28th, 2006 at 08:59 AM |
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Are Kombi 'Boxes any stronger or better for ratios, etc ?
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71superbug
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| posted on August 28th, 2006 at 01:21 PM |
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i believe they are stronger but cant see them being any better for ratios seeings as they have to get a big bus up and moving...i imagine they would
have lower ratios than a ssp box however im not 100% sure on that so if someone can post up some 6rib ratios it would be good.
Anthony
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GTMac
A.k.a.: Andrew
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| posted on August 28th, 2006 at 03:02 PM |
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Yes believe are sronger but not sure how and yes Bug or Type 3 would scream its tits off with the Kombi ratios at 100km/h.
I ran my dss Type 3 box when doing all m testing and t was great box, until I was an idiot and thought I wuld see wha rubber could be left on
Paramatta Rd. Axle tramped and just as changing into 2nd BANG. Did about 3000km on that box. Now have ssp L Bug and is driven pretty hard with no
problems really after again about 3000km. All stock boxes with unknown condition/kms. Will be going down track of Matt and Jak. Est of power somewhere
in region of 200hp.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 71superbug
i believe they are stronger but cant see them being any better for ratios seeings as they have to get a big bus up and moving...i imagine they would
have lower ratios than a ssp box however im not 100% sure on that so if someone can post up some 6rib ratios it would be good.
Anthony
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1971 Type 3 Fasty - EJ20T
I love 242HP sleepers. 
How many sets of lights does it take a $229k Carrera S to learn? 
UPDATE: Cayman S, M3, B4 now added to the list. |
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boof2332
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| posted on August 28th, 2006 at 10:23 PM |
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The 2 litre buss box is stronger although has really short gears and they are not that cheap....the 1600 kombi box is worse for ratios aparently.
Are there any other gear set makers other than albins. I know weddle engineering in the usa sell them, although they buy them of albins!!!
Matt
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malcolm
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| posted on August 28th, 2006 at 10:51 PM |
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Mondena Engineering in Victoria 0397824420. Also make custom diff centres.
spoke with Albins today looks like they will be making 915 crown wheel&pinions in 3 diferent ratio,s and they make them for the G50 boxes.
Also have a contact to get my 915 box rebuilt .
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kevo
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| posted on August 29th, 2006 at 12:58 PM |
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my kombi 6 rib box does have a VERY short 1st gear, about 15m or so on the ground.
just as '71superbug' said, 1st gear is only to get a big van to start moving, 4th gear is not too bad @ 2300 at 100km/h with a v8
76 baywindow kombi - V8 & Weddle racing diff and gearbox
Daily driven beach cruiser
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newoldmanx
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| posted on August 29th, 2006 at 04:00 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by kevo
my kombi 6 rib box does have a VERY short 1st gear, about 15m or so on the ground.
just as '71superbug' said, 1st gear is only to get a big van to start moving, 4th gear is not too bad @ 2300 at 100km/h with a v8
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what wheel and tyre sizes are you using to get 100kph @2300rpm???? must be 35's im closer to 3500 with 33's and 1600 box and 3300rpm with 30' and
091 at 100ks and just to clarify v8 or 1200 makes no difference when its without resistance the rpm:kph ratio is the same
[ Edited on 29-8-2006 by newoldmanx ]
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its just a car for f*%k sake
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newoldmanx
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| posted on August 29th, 2006 at 04:13 PM |
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ok bay boxes
1st 3.78:1
2nd 2.06:1
3rd 1.26:1
4th .82 (1700) or .88(1800) or .89(2ltr)
courtesy gregory's repair manual
its just a car for f*%k sake
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kevo
A.k.a.: kevo Milner
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| posted on August 29th, 2006 at 05:37 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by newoldmanx
what wheel and tyre sizes are you using to get 100kph @2300rpm???? must be 35's im closer to 3500 with 33's and 1600 box and 3300rpm with 30' and
091 at 100ks and just to clarify v8 or 1200 makes no difference when its without resistance the rpm:kph ratio is the same
[ Edited on 29-8-2006 by newoldmanx ]
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this is with the 6 rib box that was in the car when i bought it mate, i just assumed it had stock gearing but maybe not then, because im using street
215/65/14 at the moment
76 baywindow kombi - V8 & Weddle racing diff and gearbox
Daily driven beach cruiser
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Volkswagenboy
A.k.a.: Brenton Barry
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| posted on August 29th, 2006 at 06:55 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by kevo
my kombi 6 rib box does have a VERY short 1st gear, about 15m or so on the ground.
just as '71superbug' said, 1st gear is only to get a big van to start moving, 4th gear is not too bad @ 2300 at 100km/h with a v8
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That's not bad at all. I can't quite remember the RPM/Speed for 100kph, but I know it's 2000RPM for 80 KPH in my Land Rover (3.5L V8). And there's
still a few thousand more Revs to play with!!
Your bus must be a real rocket.
-Staggers.
STAGGERS AUTOMOTIVE - Heavy Vehicle Diesel Specialist
JB CUSTOMS & CLASSICS - Car Builders
2/53 Tradelink Drive, Browns Plains |
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boof2332
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| posted on September 1st, 2006 at 12:34 AM |
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I got an email from a guy in melbourne with a suby fasty, and it was from albins....1st and second gearsets are $650 as they are paired.... and 3rd
and 4th are $325. No mention of mainshaft, although I heard that was $650..cannot be with ist and second?
Anyway they have a .70 4th gear..throw that in the calculator..with my wheels and 3.88 i can do 256kmh at 6000rpm..take it to 7000 and its like
290...in a bug apart, from being aerodynamically impossible...NO THANKS! 2000rpm at 126kmh...nice option for long trips..
What r&p is in the bay???
matt
[ Edited on 31-8-06 by boof2332 ]
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newoldmanx
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| posted on September 1st, 2006 at 01:19 AM |
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i know you can get quaiffe lsd's for $1800
its just a car for f*%k sake
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Euro_67
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| posted on September 22nd, 2006 at 11:52 AM |
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Has any one considered a Toyota MR2 Turbo 5 speed gear box as possible solution ? They are rwd but I am not sure of the gearbox specs, possibly a fwd
'box converted to run rwd. Any one know any thing about these 'boxes ? If they can handle a turbo toyota then they should cope with a subarus power.
Just need to see if one would fit. It should have a cable operated shifter too which could be adapted easy enough....
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pete wood
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| posted on September 22nd, 2006 at 12:34 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1964_Notch
Has any one considered a Toyota MR2 Turbo 5 speed gear box as possible solution ?
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the MR2 is an eastwest engined car. So first up you'd need to turn the motor in 90degs to use it, which makes your beetle an ICV and very hard to
register. Secondly, as I understand it, these boxes aren't known for having a great deal of strength anyway.
Kombi ring and pinion ratios.
4.58 2l (I think)
4.86 1800
5.38 1600
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dangerous
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| posted on September 22nd, 2006 at 05:51 PM |
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Yes Pete is correct 4.57 for 2lt.
1600 had 5.375 and there is a stronger 5.429.
A simple upgrade for the fine teeth gears in your ssp L trannys is the course gears from the 1800(1.26 and .890)
or the late 1600 tranny's 1.26 and 0.82.
I have used these 3rd and 4th gears in my drag car and they held up fine.
STD gears in L bug boxes are 1.26 and .931 in fine tooth form.
The late bus gears are a bolt in, just assembly labour.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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VWCOOL
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| posted on September 22nd, 2006 at 06:02 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by pete wood
| Quote: | Originally
posted by 1964_Notch
Has any one considered a Toyota MR2 Turbo 5 speed gear box as possible solution ?
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the MR2 is an eastwest engined car. So first up you'd need to turn the motor in 90degs to use it, which makes your beetle an ICV and very hard to
register. Secondly, as I understand it, these boxes aren't known for having a great deal of strength anyway.
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Not quite right - a box change of that nature, although technically requiring engineering certification, will not make it an ICV.
But it's still practically impossible!
Pay your debts, CxxT
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rubyred
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| posted on September 23rd, 2006 at 05:09 PM |
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i always thought the porsche 901 boxes that were in the 911s and 914s were the best option for the subaru. Supposedly they are good for 300hp and
alot of the v8 914s here in the us run the stock transmissions.
At least thats what i plan on doing
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Euro_67
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| posted on September 23rd, 2006 at 05:36 PM |
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Like I said might be a fwd box in the back just wasnt sure.
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Euro_67
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| posted on September 23rd, 2006 at 05:36 PM |
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Like I said might be a fwd box in the back just wasnt sure.
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boof2332
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| posted on September 26th, 2006 at 01:46 AM |
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Got an email fowarded from albins..reduced prices, gearsets for 4 gears and mainshaft are about $1200.
Me thinks..cheep cheep.
The 901 from a 914 wouldnt work due to mid mount..must get the 911 box.
Matt
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malcolm
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| posted on September 26th, 2006 at 11:36 PM |
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the transmission out of the 914 can be used by rotating the diff ,the 901 box isn,t much stronger than a S/S/P vdub box .
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Sparrow
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| posted on October 20th, 2006 at 06:28 PM |
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See you Saturday Boof |
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THUDKNUCKLE
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| posted on October 20th, 2006 at 06:55 PM |
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i just blew my single side plate box up 4 days ago  it lasted about 5
months with the rotary conversion ( easy driving ) and another 9 months with a modified 1600 tp .
i hgave now aquired a 6 rib 2 ltr kombi box and am ready to install it in the baja tomorrow  . i chose the 2 lts becos i am led to belive they are the strongest stock box and the gear ratios on the high way are
somewhat equal to a ssp beetle box however step down to an 1800 or 5 rib and the ratios get lower and the revs increase a small amount - goin to a
1600 kombi box is very low gearing and the car will be revving hard at 100 km/h compared to a 6 rib or ssp box. the benifit of kombo boxes is also
that they have a stronger reverse gear ( still fragile but not at bad as a beetle box) i killed reverese on my ssp box after 2 months of reversing up
and out of a moderatly sloped drive way hope this info help
chill all
Love is a Rotary baja bug
Just be carefull  ,, something dangerous is lurkin in My garage
ready to burst out in a fit of Big Hp, high boost baja Rage .
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1303
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| posted on October 21st, 2006 at 12:59 PM |
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Here's my 3rd gear.....same symptom as Jak, laying down a little throttle out of the apex on turn 4 at Eastern Creek and it let go. There are no
teeth left on the gear mounted to the main shaft and only about 6 teeth on the gear mounted to the pinion shaft! The funny thing is that this happened
while rolling on the throttle, 3rd in the L bug box certainly wouldn't take a clucth side step mid corner for a little tail slide!
[ Edited on 21-10-2006 by 1303 ]
[ Edited on 21-10-2006 by 1303 ]
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pete wood
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| posted on October 22nd, 2006 at 09:51 AM |
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I guess Mr Albins will be getting a call then eh?
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pete wood
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| posted on October 22nd, 2006 at 09:57 AM |
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listen I just had a thought, has anyone taken the time to see just how hot the gearbox is getting while it's under full stress?
Coz if that damage happened at part throttle in a corner it tells me the wear has been going on for some time and the gears are getting very hot.
Maybe even hot enough screw with the hardening of the metal?
Be worth figuring this out, coz if running a seperate pump and oil cooler did the trick (ala the George Fury Turbo Bluebird), it might save you a lot
of money on gearbox rebuilds. 
Also, there's a special additive you can get for gearoil. Klaack motors were telling me about it. Can't remember what it's called now, but it
lowers the heat in the box by something in the order of 100deg at full load.
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